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 Man of Steel ::: 14 June, 2013

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PostSubject: Re: Man of Steel ::: 14 June, 2013   Man of Steel ::: 14 June, 2013 - Page 17 EmptyWed Jun 19, 2013 2:42 am

Frankly, the Donner era had its day. RETURNS was only a confirmation in the form of a 200 million dollar picture that betrayed what the character is all about. I can't understand why anyone would consider SR a better alternative to MOS.
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PostSubject: Re: Man of Steel ::: 14 June, 2013   Man of Steel ::: 14 June, 2013 - Page 17 EmptyWed Jun 19, 2013 3:09 am

Indeed. It's time to let a new interpretation have a try. After all, trying to make Superman movies like Donner again would be like trying to make Bond movies like Roger Moore again.
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PostSubject: Re: Man of Steel ::: 14 June, 2013   Man of Steel ::: 14 June, 2013 - Page 17 EmptyThu Jun 20, 2013 4:42 am

I saw Man of Steel based solely on the trailers that suggested some excellent father-son stuff, a tone of real heroism, and some beautiful images.

Fooled again. Well, not exactly fooled. All those things were in the film. Sadly, everything suggested by the names Snyder, Nolan, and Goyer was also present.

The last act is a horrific carnival of carnage, with civilians dying by the millions. The climax's real stakes - the loss of human lives - are ignored by both Snyder's lens and by Superman, which runs completely against Clark Kent's supposed compassion for humanity. Goyer's script is his usual. Every character is reduced to a mouthpiece (or worse, a chess piece) for exposition of pseudo-intellectual theme work.

Snyder lost me with his misreading of Watchmen. He seems to find joy in violence. I don't know why I gave him another chance. And although I enjoyed The Dark Knight as much as anyone, I'm tired of Nolan's lack of warmth, character, and subtext. I won't be wasting money on these guys again.
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PostSubject: Re: Man of Steel ::: 14 June, 2013   Man of Steel ::: 14 June, 2013 - Page 17 EmptyThu Jun 20, 2013 8:52 am

Yup! The last part of MoS is a real shocker.....probably the worst I have witnessed at the cinema since Batman & Robin or DAD.

Can someone please fix the quote function on this forum?
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PostSubject: Re: Man of Steel ::: 14 June, 2013   Man of Steel ::: 14 June, 2013 - Page 17 EmptySun Jun 23, 2013 8:19 pm

To paraphrase a tweet I've read on the subject: why give the job of resurrecting the Superman franchise to a man who has proven without a shadow of a doubt in his previous features that he has no discernible sense of joy?
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PostSubject: Re: Man of Steel ::: 14 June, 2013   Man of Steel ::: 14 June, 2013 - Page 17 EmptySun Jun 23, 2013 8:54 pm

Snyder's better off sticking to films like DAWN OF THE DEAD. Something mindless, gory, with cheap thrills and gags.
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PostSubject: Re: Man of Steel ::: 14 June, 2013   Man of Steel ::: 14 June, 2013 - Page 17 EmptySun Jun 23, 2013 8:58 pm

Or he could release the cut of Sucker Punch that he keeps for his own amusement.
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PostSubject: Re: Man of Steel ::: 14 June, 2013   Man of Steel ::: 14 June, 2013 - Page 17 EmptySun Jun 23, 2013 9:54 pm

I haven't seen any of his films other than 300 and WATCHMEN. I saw 300 only once when it came out in theaters but I remember very much enjoying that one. I love WATCHMEN, it's something of a surprise for me because I didn't expect much out of it when I first rented it, but now I consider it one of the better comic book adaptations, perhaps in a top 5. Based on those, does that make Snyder suitable for Superman? I wouldn't know, because I haven't seen it and from what I've heard it's not all that similar despite the whining over it being "joyless". I don't think he's a great visionary, but I have more faith in him than most filmmakers.

EDIT: Actually, I did see SUCKER PUNCH in theaters. That bored the shit out of me, I hate to say.
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PostSubject: Re: Man of Steel ::: 14 June, 2013   Man of Steel ::: 14 June, 2013 - Page 17 EmptySun Jun 23, 2013 10:32 pm

Salomé wrote:
To paraphrase a tweet I've read on the subject: why give the job of resurrecting the Superman franchise to a man who has proven without a shadow of a doubt in his previous features that he has no discernible sense of joy?

We watched LEGEND OF THE GUARDIANS: THE OWLS OF GA'HOOLE together. I thought the Rohypnol had worn off?
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PostSubject: Re: Man of Steel ::: 14 June, 2013   Man of Steel ::: 14 June, 2013 - Page 17 EmptyMon Jun 24, 2013 7:27 am

Erica Ambler wrote:
Or he could release the cut of Sucker Punch that he keeps for his own amusement.
I do believe that was the movie in which he proved how little he had to tell (absolutely nothing) as a director.
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PostSubject: Re: Man of Steel ::: 14 June, 2013   Man of Steel ::: 14 June, 2013 - Page 17 EmptyMon Jun 24, 2013 7:53 am

I think he's very good with visuals, as much as I disliked SUCKER PUNCH, I thought the first couple of minutes really showed his strengths as a visual storyteller. What ultimately killed that film for me was the writing lacking believability. He's better off relying on a good screenplay from talent than writing his own.
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PostSubject: Re: Man of Steel ::: 14 June, 2013   Man of Steel ::: 14 June, 2013 - Page 17 EmptyMon Jun 24, 2013 11:14 am

That movie barely had a screenplay.

I don't rate him as a visual story-teller either, his visual style is very sterile and artificial looking.
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PostSubject: Re: Man of Steel ::: 14 June, 2013   Man of Steel ::: 14 June, 2013 - Page 17 EmptyMon Jun 24, 2013 12:48 pm

Sucker Punch doesn't deliver on any level. Fails as a narrative and fails as pornography. 

What was its market?
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PostSubject: Re: Man of Steel ::: 14 June, 2013   Man of Steel ::: 14 June, 2013 - Page 17 EmptyMon Jun 24, 2013 5:33 pm

Erica Ambler wrote:
Sucker Punch doesn't deliver on any level. Fails as a narrative and fails as pornography. 

What was its market?
13-year old boys, but I suspect even they came away feeling cheated.
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PostSubject: Re: Man of Steel ::: 14 June, 2013   Man of Steel ::: 14 June, 2013 - Page 17 EmptyMon Jun 24, 2013 7:46 pm

Salomé wrote:
That movie barely had a screenplay.

I don't rate him as a visual story-teller either, his visual style is very sterile and artificial looking.

Sounds more like Chris Nolan or David Fincher to me. Snyder has far more panache, kinetic wit and exuberance, coupled with an genuinely intuitive talent. He's not worshipping at Kubrick's altar.
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PostSubject: Re: Man of Steel ::: 14 June, 2013   Man of Steel ::: 14 June, 2013 - Page 17 EmptyMon Jun 24, 2013 8:15 pm

In these days of heavy post-processing, CGI, colour grading, and other digital imaging processes, not to mention 3D post-conversion and the resulting lack of brightness you get from both 2D and 3D digital projection, it's frankly hard to find a director whose visuals CAN'T be accused of looking "sterile and artifical", Salomé.

That being said, I think Snyder has some kinetic panache that places him above Nolan in terms of visual imagery. You can accuse him of style over substance but to say he has no style and no substance is to try and ostrich yourself away from regarding why he's become a popular director in the first place.
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PostSubject: Re: Man of Steel ::: 14 June, 2013   Man of Steel ::: 14 June, 2013 - Page 17 EmptyMon Jun 24, 2013 8:38 pm

Erica Ambler wrote:
Sucker Punch doesn't deliver on any level. Fails as a narrative and fails as pornography. 

What was its market?

I think it targeted teenage girls.

Emily Browning is a handsome little fellow.
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PostSubject: Re: Man of Steel ::: 14 June, 2013   Man of Steel ::: 14 June, 2013 - Page 17 EmptyTue Jun 25, 2013 12:05 am

Just came back from finally seeing this flick. It was a matinee screening and on a Monday, so most of the audience in my screening were just regular folks ranging from teenage friends, to adults, to families and even elderly couples instead of just being mainly packed with genre fans, which opening weekends are known to attract the most. Even so, after the film had finished, most of the audiences gave an applause. I've seen that happen on opening weekends, but not matinee screenings on a Monday. Just only goes to show you how much of a crowd pleaser this flick really is.

As for my own thoughts on the film? I'd say the applause is well deserved. I enjoyed this a lot for what it is: An action packed Superman film that wipes the slate clean, allowing the series to go where the filmmakers see fit. This was a necessary reboot and it's the kind of film we should have gotten in 2006 as opposed to the misguided love letter to Donner. I notice many in here did not enjoy this because it didn't resemble the Reeve films of yesteryear. I'm sorry you can't try to enjoy the film on its own terms. I wouldn't call the film "joyless", but I suppose when your ideal Superman film has the hero wink and smile at the camera in the end, I can see your point. I still enjoy that film very much and I'd probably rank it above MOS mainly because while it's flawed it still appeals to me greatly. It's really just a preference though, as MOS in many ways is superior as far as coherent stories go. That wasn't a strong-suit for the Reeve films, but they worked on a different level.

As a first installment of this rebooted series, I think it does a good job setting up this new interpretation and makes me really look forward to what the filmmakers will do next, as opposed to where SR left the series on an uncertain note. Cavill makes a fine Superman, hopefully more will be done with his character now that everything is established. He gets the core of the character right, doing the right thing because it is the right thing to do. That's what Superman is all about. Zod made a good villain and I liked how the film acknowledged his more alien sensibilities, he does what he does because he's programed and that in a way makes him somewhat sympathetic. What he does is wrong and evil, but he's overpowered by his purpose, he doesn't have the option of a choice like Superman. I think the solution at the end with Superman taking down Zod once and for all was handled very well. Cavil does a great job telling you what's going on in his mind without a word of dialogue, and the ending where he has to make a choice at the end really makes a great example.

If there's anything I don't like in this flick, it's that Costner wasn't in it as much as I liked. I've always preferred that Pa Kent lives well into Clark's adulthood, and it was a big problem for me when SMALLVILLE took that route especially the way that show handled it. However, I'll admit that the way his death was handled in MOS I think worked for this film and when that moment came I found it very effective and heartbreaking.

My super-rankings:

SUPERMAN
MAN OF STEEL
SUPERMAN II (Donner Cut)
SUPERMAN II
SUPERMAN III
SUPERMAN IV: THE QUEST FOR PEACE
SUPERMAN RETURNS

I'd even go as far to say that I like this film a lot better than the Nolan Batman films. Superman in a way has always been more appealing to me as a superhero to look up to, while Batman always made a great contrast and more interesting character. It's apples and oranges, and I happen to have a preference for one.


Alright, everyone resume your mourning for olde cinema.
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PostSubject: Re: Man of Steel ::: 14 June, 2013   Man of Steel ::: 14 June, 2013 - Page 17 EmptyTue Jun 25, 2013 12:22 am

Given how much RETURNS was an ode to Donner, was there ever a public reaction from him to that movie?

I honestly think MAN OF STEEL is a much better tribute, as it succeeds in doing what Donner succeeded in doing -- presenting the story of Superman onscreen in a successful manner for a modern audience.
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PostSubject: Re: Man of Steel ::: 14 June, 2013   Man of Steel ::: 14 June, 2013 - Page 17 EmptyTue Jun 25, 2013 12:40 am

Fairbairn-Sykes wrote:
Given how much RETURNS was an ode to Donner, was there ever a public reaction from him to that movie?

I honestly think MAN OF STEEL is a much better tribute, as it succeeds in doing what Donner succeeded in doing -- presenting the story of Superman onscreen in a successful manner for a modern audience.

I remember Donner said he was flattered, I don't think he would openly criticize Singer even if he had objections, given that they've worked together since the first X-Men feature and looking at the credits on IMDB still do today with DAYS OF FUTURE PAST. Donner rarely says anything bad about anybody, unless you're Ilya Salkind or Joel Silver.
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PostSubject: Re: Man of Steel ::: 14 June, 2013   Man of Steel ::: 14 June, 2013 - Page 17 EmptyTue Jun 25, 2013 1:10 am

i always love when he talks about Superman II and refers to Lester as "that other director"
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PostSubject: Re: Man of Steel ::: 14 June, 2013   Man of Steel ::: 14 June, 2013 - Page 17 EmptyTue Jun 25, 2013 1:15 am

Richard Lester is 10 times the filmmaker Richard Donner is, though you'd never tell from their respective SUPERMAN films.
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PostSubject: Re: Man of Steel ::: 14 June, 2013   Man of Steel ::: 14 June, 2013 - Page 17 EmptyTue Jun 25, 2013 1:32 am

Fairbairn-Sykes wrote:
i always love when he talks about Superman II and refers to Lester as "that other director"

I rewatched the Donner Cut a few days ago with the commentary. Donner at least says "if I had been allowed to finish it, I would have done it differently, and better" at least three times and that's the only comments he ever makes when Lester footage comes up. laugh I do wonder if J.W. Peppper had always been planned to appear given Mankiewicz's involvement, as his footage was all Lester's. Looking at the original script, his state trooper character only appears once and it plays out extremely different from what Lester did.

Largo's Shark wrote:
Richard Lester is 10 times the filmmaker Richard Donner is, though you'd never tell from their respective SUPERMAN films.

True enough. Lester was very much out of his league when directing Superman and even refuses to discuss it in interviews today. Where Donner had respect for the character, Lester more often mocked it and had a very narrow view. Like his mid-western scenes being mainly occupied by the most stereotypical southerners, it's so easy to tell that this was the work of an Englishman. Then there's his sight gag shit in Metropolis, treating the whole thing like a big joke because that's all Superman ever was to him. I recall a quote from him about the difference between his directing and Donner's, saying that he didn't really like or understand the David Lean approach Donner used with Superman. It kinda makes me glad that Guy Hamilton turned down the gig, god knows what kind of farce he would have turned the first film into.
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PostSubject: Re: Man of Steel ::: 14 June, 2013   Man of Steel ::: 14 June, 2013 - Page 17 EmptyTue Jun 25, 2013 1:43 am

I admire Lester's disdain and his clever subversion of the banal material. A spanner in the works.
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PostSubject: Re: Man of Steel ::: 14 June, 2013   Man of Steel ::: 14 June, 2013 - Page 17 EmptyTue Jun 25, 2013 1:47 am

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/original-superman-star-interrupts-man-573843
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