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 LINCOLN (2012, dir. by Steven Spielberg)

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Gravity's Silhouette
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PostSubject: Re: LINCOLN (2012, dir. by Steven Spielberg)   Tue Oct 23, 2012 2:42 am

Please remember to include SPOILER TAGS in your posts about the film. It doesn't come out in the U.S. until November 16th, so many of us haven't seen it yet.
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Largo's Shark
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PostSubject: Re: LINCOLN (2012, dir. by Steven Spielberg)   Tue Oct 23, 2012 2:45 am

I haven't posted in spoilers. :scratch:
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PostSubject: Re: LINCOLN (2012, dir. by Steven Spielberg)   Tue Oct 23, 2012 2:50 am

Largo's Shark wrote:
I haven't posted in spoilers. :scratch:

tongue
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Seve
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PostSubject: Re: LINCOLN (2012, dir. by Steven Spielberg)   Tue Oct 23, 2012 1:19 pm

Gravity's Silhouette wrote:
Please remember to include SPOILER TAGS in your posts about the film. It doesn't come out in the U.S. until November 16th, so many of us haven't seen it yet.

it's a pretty sad state of affairs when there can be "spoilers" in a movie about a historical figure as famous as Abe Lincoln
says something about Hollywoods cavalier attitude to historical fact...
(you mean he might not get shot at the end?)
laugh


Last edited by Seve on Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:43 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: LINCOLN (2012, dir. by Steven Spielberg)   Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:32 am

Seve wrote:
Gravity's Silhouette wrote:
Please remember to include SPOILER TAGS in your posts about the film. It doesn't come out in the U.S. until November 16th, so many of us haven't seen it yet.

it's a pretty sad state of affairs when there can be "spoilers" in a movie about a historical figure a famous as Abe Lincoln
says something about Hollywoods cavalier attitude to historical fact...
(you mean he might not get shot at the end?)
laugh

Crumbs, maybe the South rose again and nobody noticed
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PostSubject: Re: LINCOLN (2012, dir. by Steven Spielberg)   Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:01 am

Seve wrote:
Gravity's Silhouette wrote:
Please remember to include SPOILER TAGS in your posts about the film. It doesn't come out in the U.S. until November 16th, so many of us haven't seen it yet.

it's a pretty sad state of affairs when there can be "spoilers" in a movie about a historical figure a famous as Abe Lincoln
says something about Hollywoods cavalier attitude to historical fact...
(you mean he might not get shot at the end?)
laugh

Name three famous people shot in the back of the head in a movie theater:



Abe Lincoln
The guy sitting in front of Pee Wee Herman
The guy sitting in front of Fred Willard

Anyway, I thought *maybe* Largo's Shark would get the joke about including spoilers in a movie based on a subject most edumicated people have been learned about: The Civil War and Abraham Lincoln's death. I thought the British were masters of black humor.
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PostSubject: Re: LINCOLN (2012, dir. by Steven Spielberg)   Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:05 am

Gravity's Silhouette wrote:
Anyway, I thought *maybe* Largo's Shark would get the joke about including spoilers in a movie based on a subject most edumicated people have been learned about: The Civil War and Abraham Lincoln's death. I thought the British were masters of black humor.

Sorry. I thought you were just being dim. laugh
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PostSubject: Re: LINCOLN (2012, dir. by Steven Spielberg)   Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:42 am

Largo's Shark wrote:
Gravity's Silhouette wrote:
Anyway, I thought *maybe* Largo's Shark would get the joke about including spoilers in a movie based on a subject most edumicated people have been learned about: The Civil War and Abraham Lincoln's death. I thought the British were masters of black humor.

Sorry. I thought you were just being dim. laugh

now if it had been "Abe Lincoln - Vampire Slayer" it would have been a different story...
:affraid:
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PostSubject: Re: LINCOLN (2012, dir. by Steven Spielberg)   Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:39 pm

Armond White dislikes it.

Quote :
The Pageantry of Rhetoric
by Armond White on Nov 14, 2012 • 9:00 am

HOW SPIELBERG’S ‘LINCOLN’ PARLAYS THE ‘GREAT MAN’ NOTION OF HISTORY


Daniel Day-Lewis as Abraham Lincoln in “Lincoln”

“You begin your second term with semi-divine status,” the 16th President of the United States is told in Steven Spielberg’s film Lincoln. The evidence of that status is in the film’s mythifying visual style that presents Abraham Lincoln as an icon–silhouetted, spectral, sculptural. The people around him, such as white and Negro Union soldiers relating their Civil War experiences of the 1865 Jenkins Ferry massacre during the film’s introduction, are also made into myth. (These weary men have already committed the Gettysburg Address to memory–a presentiment of the schoolboy’s homework in Minority Report.) Spielberg’s intention to line up with “the right side of history” turns the film into cult-of-personality deification. It’s on the side of power–which makes it one of the weirdest pieces of supposedly democratic Americana ever to come out of Hollywood.

The story in Lincoln dramatizes the President’s efforts to install a 13th Amendment to the Constitution that abolishes slavery. His struggle is more than politically correct; it is presumed inarguably correct which takes the movie outside of history; outside of dramatic immediacy. Watching Lincoln is very much like observing a flesh-and-blood diorama. Everything is soon settled (within 2 ½ hours); there’s no emotional suspense.

The trick Spielberg needed to pull off was to make the characters’ moral choices dramatically compelling; analyzing ethics in politics (those pragmatic procedures that deemed the Emancipation Proclamation “a military exigent”). Yet that’s where the film becomes dodgy–open to accusations of merely being a civics lesson, or worse: Spielberg’s equivalent to Richard Attenborough’s still-born hagiography Gandhi, rather than a companion-piece to his thrilling, brilliantly analytical masterpiece Amistad.

In Amistad Spielberg cannily transformed the issue of Slavery into the intricacy of Law; human endeavor and spiritual struggle were historically modified into argument and principle. The Amistad characters Cinque the African (Djimon Hounsou) and John Quincy Adams the political descendant (Anthony Hopkins) grappled with the fact of Slavery. This time Slavery is anthropomorphized. The introduction’s two docile and truculent black soldiers patronizingly prophesize modern attitudes; Lincoln himself (played by Daniel Day-Lewis) describes Slavery as a “disease” which distances it into abstraction. Lincoln attempts to dramatize mere rhetoric. Despite high-flown language, it turns the experience of human lives into platitudes, homilies and predetermined theorems.

For a lesser filmmaker, the prevarications in Lincoln would be disastrous. But Spielberg’s innate filmmaking resources consistently provide rhythmed imagery: Conventional–as when Lincoln’s aides race to get his disingenuous communique. Daring–as when Lincoln dreams his forthcoming struggle as an eerie ship voyage. The film is always something to look at. Congressional arguments are composed to show the vitality of faces and individuals–the elite body politic–like period versions of Francesco Rosi’s courtroom scenes in Hands Across the City and Salvatore Giuliano yet without Rosi’s worry about literal political corruption. Spielberg’s vibrant style just barely offsets the mundanity of parliamentary debate. The fact that Lincoln’s drama comes from predictable dialectic, rather than an in-the-moment philosophical conundrum like Amistad, reveals its insufficiency. Lincoln tilts toward magniloquence, using important sounding words and an exaggeratedly solemn and dignified style.

Spielberg shrewdly chose the histrionic Day-Lewis to impersonate Lincoln with twinkling eyes and a wily, high-pitched voice that humanize the icon. Day-Lewis’ long face is given built-in hollows and shadows that match the Lincoln Memorial and postage stamp figures while also suggesting mysterious depths. His every close-up suggests historical reverence. But this immortality contrasts the fascinating mortal portrayals by Sally Fields as Mary Todd Lincoln, Tommy Lee Jones as Thaddeus Stevens and James Spader as W.N. Bilbo who act through their flesh, courtesy of Janusz Kaminski’s portraitist lighting that suggests the grain of historical painting animated by fluid camerawork. At one point (“It‘s too hard”), Fields’ transition from agony to aggrieved diplomacy is as much the director’s triumph as the actress’. Spader’s grungy agitator feels lived-in while Jones enlivens a cliché Congressional hack–his toupeed-role reaches back to a key idiosyncratic characterization in D.W. Griffith’s The Birth of a Nation.



With Lincoln, Spielberg assumes his place in the descent of American cinematic mythmakers following Griffith and John Ford–a fact already evident–and earned–in Amistad. Here it’s done self-consciously. Not because it’s impossible to portray Abraham Lincoln any way other than worshipfully but because Spielberg and screenwriter Tony Kushner (adapting a book by historian Doris Kearns Goodwin) manipulate Lincoln into a contemporary political paradigm.

Without clarifying the intricacy of the 19th century Republican party and the different principles of early Democrats, Spielberg and Kushner claim Lincoln as their model autocrat–always the smartest man in the room–which becomes a form of adoration. Thaddeus Stevens even refers to Lincoln as “the purest man in America.” Distinct from the cultural myth in Ford’s Young Mr. Lincoln that was widely shared in less jaded times, Lincoln presents a new style giant (a storyteller of superhuman probity and only fleeting moments of the most admirable self-doubt) probably influenced by the current hunger for a great leader whose outstanding talents must be either prefabricated or whose failings go ignored in order to answer a desperate contemporary need for power.

Here’s how Lincoln prevaricates: Scenes where black characters show flawless nobility and strength (whether as a silent, pious gospel chorus entering the senate chambers or unimpeachably dignified servants). Scenes where white politicians focus on issues with little motivation beyond hectoring opposition. These convenient and very modern political defects prevent Lincoln from achieving the historical reach of Amistad or the miraculous suasion that made Mr. Smith Goes to Washington’s change-of-heart scene so moving.

When Lincoln proclaims “We’re stepped out upon the world’s stage now, the fate of human dignity is in our hands. Blood’s been spent to afford us this moment. Now! Now! Now!” the stage metaphor exposes playwright Kushner’s smugness. Lincoln is rife with Kushner’s pedantic tendency. Speechifying characters (especially Lincoln) display conceited literacy, over-stating their differences (their career positions) but never embodying the passions that made Michael Apted’s biography of British abolitionist William Wilberforce Amazing Grace such a remarkable drama of moral inspiration. Kushner’s self-congratulatory approach to the 13th Amendment doesn’t enliven our sense of personal conviction and political maneuvering. Even the powerful “Molasses to Rum to Slaves” trading song in 1776, the Declaration of Independence musical, more clearly outlined America’s practical and political functioning. Both Amazing Grace and 1776 worked as ideational histories; Lincoln merely, well, fantasizes.

Justifying political manipulation and the idolizing of a single politician forces Spielberg and Kushner into the weird position of displacing the moral rigor that distinguished their collaboration on Munich. When Lincoln bases his notion of equality on Euclidian principle, referencing a 2000-year-old secular book as his foundation then praising “a great invisible strength in a people’s union,” Kushner’s vagrant communist-sympathy comes into play. The platitude is barely disguised by Lincoln’s out of nowhere wish to visit the Holy Land “where David and Solomon walked.”

As with Angels in America, Kushner is partial to formula, prescription, disquisition–the pageantry of rhetoric. But Spielberg thrives on movement and imagery and there isn’t enough to keep Lincoln from bogging down in verbiage. It frequently resembles the self-pleasing sophistry favored by this era of punditry and hero-worship.

But cinema’s most memorable political histories have always been films like Young Mr. Lincoln, Amistad and Amazing Grace that attain the ineffable by honestly clarifying history and daring that Capraesque link between dramatized conscience and delineated principle; that’s what stirs one’s soul in Albert Finney’s conversion scene of Amazing Grace which found the perfect symbols and actions to express the passion of ideas. Lincoln weakens from the current political era’s disingenuous pageantry of rhetoric.

In the popular fashion, Spielberg and Kushner fall back on the “great man” theory of history. Their iconography is vague, a fantasy where equality is learned through logic–not experience or faith because in this film’s view no human beings can be taken on faith (as when Lincoln says he doesn’t know any black people. The film’s one-dimensional, anachronistic black characters indicate Spielberg and Kushner progressive elitism; they never absorbed the richness of Jonathan Demme’s Slavery-era Beloved.) This dream of Lincoln, fitted to the solipsistic subjectivity of the political moment eschews Amistad’s beauty and historical clarity to favor a “semi-divine” (that is, non-spiritual) view of political heroism. The fantasy might well be re-titled Dreams From My Father.
http://cityarts.info/2012/11/14/the-pageantry-of-rhetoric/
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PostSubject: Re: LINCOLN (2012, dir. by Steven Spielberg)   Mon Nov 19, 2012 3:33 pm

Largo's Shark wrote:
Armond White dislikes it.

He liked Skyfall, now he dislikes a Spielberg film. What hell is going on in this world?
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PostSubject: Re: LINCOLN (2012, dir. by Steven Spielberg)   Thu Jan 03, 2013 5:35 pm

Anybody here seen this yet?
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PostSubject: Re: LINCOLN (2012, dir. by Steven Spielberg)   Thu Jan 03, 2013 7:20 pm

Python wrote:
Anybody here seen this yet?

I have.

It's a good movie but it's long and yadda yadda yadda.

I kind of :sleep: a few times :drunken:
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PostSubject: Re: LINCOLN (2012, dir. by Steven Spielberg)   Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:40 am

Python wrote:
Anybody here seen this yet?

Don't think it comes out this side of the Pond for a week or so. Will do when it does. Looking forward to it actually.
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PostSubject: Re: LINCOLN (2012, dir. by Steven Spielberg)   Fri Jan 04, 2013 5:47 pm

Here's my review from the last movie thread from around Christmas:

"Stephen Spielberg's Lincoln

I went into this with mixed
expectations. I was excited, with Spielberg directing and with Doris
Kearns Goodwin's "Team of Rivals" (which I have read twice and which is
excellent) being used as a primary source of information, however
Lincoln is a historical figure who I have studied for many years and who
is very dear to my heart so I was naturally anxious that his character
and the events around him would be presented faithfully, and not be
exaggerated, misrepresented or sensationalized. I am happy to say that
the movie succeeded marvelously by reckoning. It managed to take all
the diverse perspectives, conflicts, influences and complications,
disputes and criticisms around much of Lincoln's administration and
present them all around the nexus of what was certainly the crowning
achievement, namely the passing of the 13th amendment. The dialogue in
this film is particularly impressive. Lincoln was renowned for
communicating many of his most tricky positions to the general public
through stories, analogies and anecdotes, and Spielberg's movie manages
to incorporate many actual such quotes from Lincoln, more or less in
context. The characters around Lincoln were all very colorful and well
drawn and, so far as I can tell, nicely in sync with their historical
counterparts. Seward, Bates and Mary Lincoln are 3 examples that stick
out. I loved Tommy Lee Jones' performance "it's cooooool palid slime
that pumps through your veins!" but I knew comparatively little of his
character before going into the movie. A solid 4 thumbs up from me...I
may even go see it again tonight."

Armond White needs to find something else to do.
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PostSubject: Re: LINCOLN (2012, dir. by Steven Spielberg)   Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:11 am



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PostSubject: Re: LINCOLN (2012, dir. by Steven Spielberg)   Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:22 am

Holy Mackerel.
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PostSubject: Re: LINCOLN (2012, dir. by Steven Spielberg)   Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:34 am

Largo's Shark wrote:

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