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 Star Wars: The Original Trilogy

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lalala2004
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars: The Original Trilogy   Fri Mar 18, 2011 2:23 pm

Beautifully said, Lazenby. You've described the best thing about ROTJ. I honestly would have been happy with the movie ending with Luke burning the remains of his father....

But that's darker than dancing Ewoks and smiling ghosts, I guess.....
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FourDot
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars: The Original Trilogy   Fri Mar 18, 2011 2:32 pm

Agree largely with that post Lazzers, but for one thing: Vader could have been badass in ROTJ, and was going to be before Lucas decided that he'd take over the writing from Kasdan. Initially, the film was very much going to build upon the idea that Vader wanted to conspire with Luke to overthrow the Emperor - in this final version, it's as though Palpatine had Vader neutered in between films.

The original drafts sound way, way more interesting, with noir-ish elements of characters manipulating each other and playing off one another. Jerjerrod was going to be a far bigger character - essentially Palpatine's toady, and Veers was going to be back, doing his... thing.

It's always been my biggest problem with ROTJ: Vader just... isn't Vader anymore. I know he's disturbed that his own son would rather commit suicide than join him, but he's still supposed to be the baddest motherfucker in the universe. I hope the scenes where he chokes Jerjerrod, at least, are on the new BD set. That's something I've wanted to see since I was a whippersnapper.
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The White Tuxedo
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars: The Original Trilogy   Fri Mar 18, 2011 2:33 pm

Jesus, Lazenby. You've made me wanna watch the film. Maybe I shall at some point. But only if I get the originals from Netflix.

EDIT: Damn you FourDot for reminding me of reality.

And double damn you, George Lucas. You ruin everything.
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars: The Original Trilogy   Sat Mar 19, 2011 10:43 am

http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2011/mar/18/what-if-star-wars-never-existed

The fan boy comments at the bottom may be the best part of that link.
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Lazenby.
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars: The Original Trilogy   Sat Mar 19, 2011 11:07 am

Quote :
Without which, let's face it, the real alternate history may have been a sea of boarded up cinemas

Probably some truth in that.
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FourDot
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars: The Original Trilogy   Sat Mar 19, 2011 11:07 am

If that article really wanted to be "Super cool edgy, fuck you fanboys," it should have gone after another filmmaker who just riles the cognoscenti to no end but wanted to make movies because of Star Wars: Chris Nolan.

Still, I think something like Star Wars was inevitable. If you want this alternate history of cinematic prosperity, you have to somehow ensure that Heaven's Gate, 1941, One From the Heart, New York, New York, and Sorcerer never happen as well.

In a time when Disney was really floundering, all Star Wars honestly is is mainstream entertainment for everyone, in a marketplace that was reveling in darkness and depression. Perhaps people should be more grateful that at least the first two films are highly competent and extremely well made, because honestly, this whole thing could just as easily have started with a total piece of shit.
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The White Tuxedo
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars: The Original Trilogy   Sat Mar 19, 2011 1:20 pm

Didn't STAR WARS save Fox?
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Makeshift Python
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars: The Original Trilogy   Sat Mar 19, 2011 1:30 pm

Yeah, and during production they signed away all the rest of the rights hence Lucas' control over everything since Empire. Just imagine all the headdesks going on at the offices of FOX over that bit. It's probably why they are like how they are today, all from brain damage.
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FourDot
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars: The Original Trilogy   Sat Mar 19, 2011 1:58 pm

I thought Fox was doing semi-OK. I don't think they were in the disaster zone they were in pre-Sound of Music, anyway.

Kinda like Universal today. They ply their trade in flops, but the studio is far from dead. At this stage.
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars: The Original Trilogy   Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:14 am

FourDot wrote:
I hope the scenes where he chokes Jerjerrod, at least, are on the new BD set. That's something I've wanted to see since I was a whippersnapper.

What's scene is this?
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Hilly KCMG
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars: The Original Trilogy   Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:48 am

Drax wrote:
FourDot wrote:
I hope the scenes where he chokes Jerjerrod, at least, are on the new BD set. That's something I've wanted to see since I was a whippersnapper.

What's scene is this?

this pages has some text on the scene, Drax. Towards the bottom. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Tiaan_Jerjerrod

I remember reading about this ages ago though only with the 'spoof' picture of him being jabbed by the Imperial Guard.
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars: The Original Trilogy   Tue Mar 22, 2011 7:58 am

FourDot wrote:
I thought Fox was doing semi-OK. I don't think they were in the disaster zone they were in pre-Sound of Music, anyway.

Kinda like Universal today. They ply their trade in flops, but the studio is far from dead. At this stage.

They were actually riding pretty high after THE OMEN. Stock wasn't flying, but nobody was losing their job (though I guess Ladd might've if SW tanked.

Signing away merchandising rights didn't mean anything back then. Sigining away sequel rights did, but not as much as you'd think. Plus, Fox wound up getting distribution rights back for the followups when GL needed cash to finish EMPIRE, so they didn't really lose big there either.

Since GL bllamed Kurtz (unfairly IMO) for the EMPIRE overruns, Fox probably should have at least sent Gary a bouquet of flowers (so he could have pulled a Dalton and said, 'you should have brought lillies.")
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The White Tuxedo
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars: The Original Trilogy   Wed Mar 23, 2011 4:35 am

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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars: The Original Trilogy   Wed Mar 23, 2011 4:46 am

It sh1ts batteries.

Someone has switched the swearbox on again ...
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars: The Original Trilogy   Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:19 pm

The AT-AT dog picture is great!!!!!

My Star Wars List:

Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back (1980) - 10/10
Star Wars (1977) - 10/10
Star Wars: Return of the Jedi - (1983) - 8/10
Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith - 6.5/10
Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones - 5.5/10
Star Wars Episode I: The Phantom Menace (1999) - 5/10

Sigh, those damned prequels...

We've had a decade and more to complain about how horrible the prequels are, so what has been said has already been said.

Empire nudges out the original Star Wars for me by a hair...something about Empire...I don't know....

And Return of the Jedi was a good film for sure, but my God that horrible ending with the Kodak moment final shot, yikes. If they had just put that celebration scene first and THEN end the film with Luke burning Darth Vader's body it would've made for a much more powerful final image.

And as far as those "new" editions of the original, Empire and Jedi go, I hate them. I hate them so much it is unspeakable. I refuse to watch the special editions of the original films. Damn you, Lucas.
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Drax
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars: The Original Trilogy   Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:15 pm

1) Empire ~ Infinity/10
2) Star Wars ~ 10/10
3) Jedi ~ 9/10
4) The Phantom Menace ~ 6.5/10
5) Revenge of the Sith ~ 4/10
6) Attack of the Clones ~ .5/10
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars: The Original Trilogy   Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:37 pm

1. Empire: a genuinely good movie
2. Star Wars: harmless, entertaining bit of Space Opera
3. Jedi: Lucas loses his mind and the merchandising drives much of his creative decisions. Only saved by the presence of a few iconic scenes within the series (Vader saving Luke, Vader taking off the mask, ...)
4. Sith: the only one of the prequels that was able to recapture a tiny smidgen of the magic of the original trilogy, even the kid they got to play Vader looked semi-comfortable in the role in some of the scenes.
5. Clones: the only good thing you can say about it is that it wasn't quite as awful as the title suggested. It got pretty close though.
6. Menace: Has there ever been a movie that was more hyped and fell this far short of expectations?

Looking at that list, the SW series might have a worse success ratio - in terms of quality - than Bond.
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars: The Original Trilogy   Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:47 pm

On the Star Wars scale.

Star Wars: 10/10
Empire: 10/10
Jedi: 7/10
Menace: 6/10
Sith: 3/10
Clones 1/10

I enjoy the original most, but Empire is pretty great. Jedi is weak of course.

Yeah, I put Menace ahead of the other two prequels. I find the other two far more damaging. Plus I always liked that strange upbeat tone that Menace had, despite knowing from the beginning that all the characters were going to be betrayed and die. It's bizarre. The next two just felt like an even bigger drop on quality and the shit they did with the Anakin character just ruins them.
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars: The Original Trilogy   Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:47 pm

Salomé wrote:
Looking at that list, the SW series might have a worse success ratio - in terms of quality - than Bond.

And that's saying something.
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars: The Original Trilogy   Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:57 pm

I can't comment myself since I'm not familiar with the material myself, but I have heard and read that much of the so-called "extended universe" (the SW novels and comic books) is actually much darker and better than the crap Lucas gave us in the movies. Anyone who can give us a firsthand opinion?
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars: The Original Trilogy   Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:03 pm

Salomé wrote:
I can't comment myself since I'm not familiar with the material myself, but I have heard and read that much of the so-called "extended universe" (the SW novels and comic books) is actually much darker and better than the crap Lucas gave us in the movies. Anyone who can give us a firsthand opinion?

I think Lala has read them. No doubt she will report back.

I built an Airfix X-wing once. I can let you have my opinion of that if the swear filters are off.
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars: The Original Trilogy   Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:18 pm

I built and painted an Airfix Star Destroyer once, with fibre optic lighting.



That's patience.
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars: The Original Trilogy   Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:01 am

I suppose I ought to rank the films as I see it, since everyone else is.

1. TESB
2. ANH
3. ROTJ
4. ROTS
5. TPM
6. AOTC

I once ranked TPM at the lowest point, but the unforgivable dialogue in which Anakin and Padme speak to each other really sends it over the edge of the Star Wars cliff.

ambler wrote:
Salomé wrote:
I can't comment myself since I'm not familiar with the material myself, but I have heard and read that much of the so-called "extended universe" (the SW novels and comic books) is actually much darker and better than the crap Lucas gave us in the movies. Anyone who can give us a firsthand opinion?

I think Lala has read them. No doubt she will report back.

At your service.

I've primarily read the extended universe starting with the OT characters and gone from there. At the point I am in the series, Han Solo is about the age Harrison Ford is now, actually, if that gives you any clue as to how much Star Wars I have read over the years.

Some of them are quite good, but the extended series is so vast, it's quite a lot to read and I couldn't even tell someone where to begin if they wanted to read them.

OK, maybe I can. Start with Shadows of the Empire, which takes place between TESB and ROTJ. It's always been clear that a lot went on between the two movies, and this book is really quite good. From there, I would skip to the Heir to the Empire trilogy (also called the Thrawn Trilogy) by Timothy Zahn. It was actually one of the first fully authorized books written to continue the story from the films, and it's still some of the best. The Jedi Academy trilogy is pretty good, too.

Keep in mind, I read a lot of these as an adolescent or younger. They are pretty light reading.

If you're more into the military aspect of Star Wars, there are some series called X-wing Rogue Squadron and X-Wing Wraith squadron that are really different in that way. They don't have many characters that were in the films, but they introduce a character who is actually the main focus of one of my favorite Star Wars books: I, Jedi. The only Star Wars book written in first person.

As far as being darker, I don't feel that this starts happening until later, in what is called the New Jedi Order series. This series has the original 3 in it, but a lot of the focus is on their children. I wouldn't recommend reading them because there's something like 20 or more of them. I read them them as they were coming out, which lasted from my sophomore year of high school til I was well into college. The series that comes after them is even darker, and the series that have come out since get even darker. You have Jedi going Sith, main characters dying, and things that just don't happen in the films very much. Apparently a lot of these are getting released in comic book form, so that would be quicker reading. (I don't generally read comic books, but my students do and report such things back to me tongue )

As I've eluded to before, none of this is anything near great works of literature, but it's fun light reading, particularly if you're a fan of the original series.

I don't really read much of the prequel era. There's too much out there and it doesn't have as much appeal for me. I did read some things that take place in "ancient Star Wars history" that I liked, particularly the Darth Bane series.
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The White Tuxedo
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars: The Original Trilogy   Sun May 15, 2011 4:06 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars: The Original Trilogy   Sun May 15, 2011 4:15 pm

If I didn't know any better I'd say he'd developed an edifice complex.
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