Previous Debate: Is It Possible To Have An Equal Bond Girl?

One of the major concerns with the Bond Girl is how equal she is with Bond - but how are we defining equal? I'm currently reading a fair bit of Austen if you aren't aware and one of the things she appears to value is the idea of an equal partnership - that is those of an equal mind and class are a good match. This is why Emma Woodhouse and George Knightley are the number one couple in Emma for example.

Now the common idea of an equal Bond girl is a) she can kick ass just as much as Bond and b) has the brains to match it. This is often mistranslated on screen I feel. Jinx is an example of how badly it can turn out - while Camille is a different one (though I feel she is an example of how 'equal' can be done well).

Now like Austen in some respects I feel we must have the girl being 'equal' to Mr Bond. If they are not their relationship is false ... I myself couldn't enter into a relationship if I didn't feel I had some standing with the man. This equality can come across in a meeting of a minds or even personality.

In another thread Tracy is mentioned as fulfilling this - and she is proven to be 'equal' to Bond.

So I think the reason why we run away from the word 'equal' is that we don't truly know what it means. There is a Tracy and then there is a Jinx. One fails and one doesn't. We don't like the idea of an 'equal' Bond girl because Bond is meant to be in charge? And yet in cases (like myself with Goodnight) we needlessly mock those who are weaker - or those meant-to-be equal Bond girls who depending on your perspective fail or succeed.

Anyway what I'm more or less trying to get out is that for a believable relationship (and not a fling) the Bond Girl MUST be equal otherwise the relationship is pointless.

THoughts?

/ I now realise I need to go back and watch the series. Marathon time.

Very interesting that you brought up Emma. In that case, they are a good match not because they are similar to each other, but because they compliment each other. The basic elements of class and intelligence are there, and they perfectly meet each others needs. I see a lot of that in Bond and Tracy.

Part of the problem is the so called "Bond equals" still need to be saved by Bond in the end. Anya, Holly, and Jinx all needed rescuing in situations that Bond would have escaped from. This invalidates the basis of their character, as a secret agent that's a match for Bond wouldn't need him to ride in on the white horse.

Only true "equals" the series had were Tracy, Melina, Camile, and Wai Lin. Elektra could also be considered.

You forgetting Pam, Tubes?

Fae wrote:

We don't like the idea of an 'equal' Bond girl because Bond is meant to be in charge?

Bond is definitely supposed to be the best at his job. Never a good thing when another character steals the spotlight (Wai Lin) or when another character is made out to be Bond's equal, but fails hopelessly (Jinx).

These kinds of Bond girls are fine so long as they have a degree of vulnerability to them (see Camille, Tracy). Bond films are a male fantasy, after all. There should always be a slight measure of 'damsel in distress' to them to balance out the tough girl persona. I do think it's fine for the Bond girl to show Bond up so long as he's out of his depth and needs help (see OHMSS, LTK).

Fae wrote:

And yet in cases (like myself with Goodnight) we needlessly mock those who are weaker - or those meant-to-be equal Bond girls who depending on your perspective fail or succeed.

I don't think of Goodnight so much as weak as incredibly stupid. But the less I think about TMWTGG the better.

I'm not for Bond Girl equals such as Jinx, Pam and Holly, but admittedly I do like Wai Lin and Camille, purely because I think they were done right, and when they are done right, it's usually with a big gap in between (11 years between TND and QOS. However, it should be noted that some Bond girls have saved Bond's life as well, such as in LTK, when Pam kills Dario. Still, an OCCASIONAL Bond equal wouldn't hurt, but for the next 5 films, it would be good to stay away from it. Like people have said, Bond is the best at his job, not the girl. Which is why I liked that despite Wai Lin and Camille's strong and believeable capabilities, there was one thing that was always holding them back, ultimately leading to Bond's rescue: Wai Lin's arrogance and Camille's history.

And Fae, Austin's writings are very different to Fleming's and the screenwriters for the films. The genres are completely different. Bond's relationships with the girls are casual at best, save for Tracy and Vesper. They aren't deep and meaningful. Plus, Bond's character doesn't allow for such equality, because he is an chauvinistic alpha male.

I know they are different, Fields. Trust me I'm not a idiot - I was drawing that as an idea about two characters complementing each other (as Lala more accurately expained) but also share an equality - Austen is big on that. While there is the class situation at the end her main couples have that meeting of minds. Equal doesn't mean that Bond can't save the day - the reason Tracy works is that she complements etc. but in no way is weak either.

I'm not saying that all of them need to be equal however we shouldn't fear the idea of an 'equal' Bond girl.

I fear Bond's equal though because only a few instances have proven to have worked well, and the attempts are far too common and frequent. We've had:

LTK - Pam
GE - Xenia
TND - Wai Lin
TWINE - (-)
DAD - Jinx (plus Miranda and Peaceful being agents as well)
CR - (-)
QOS - Camille.

I certainly agree the idea that equal does not require 'the same' which is where the problems really begin.

Tracy is a good example, she actually is critical to Bonds escape and proves her resourcefullness and determination every bit as well as Bond.

One that hasn't been mentioned is Natalya from GE, here we have someone whose specific skills make her more than equal to Bond in the context of the film and plot, the relationship works because each depnds upon the other imo without the 'helpless damsell' concept becoming too intrusive.

The key to a good Bond girl, to me, particularly in this day and age (because despite all the moaning one has to accept the film-makers have to adapt to the current era in a least some degree) is an incredibly lame sounding but basic trio of characteristics - she's got to have a right mix of courage, resourcefulness and independence. I dont want to see Bond puppydogging around a chick who's dumb, unhelpful and completely dependent so he can root her airheaded arse at the end of the film, pretty much a Mary Goodnight. Same time I dont want a bird who shows up Bond at every opportunity before meekly surrendering herself at the end, which pretty much sums up Wai Lin.

If we go Dalton-era forward because thats when "modern Bond" really began - the ones who have worked for me are Pam, Natalya and Vesper. They dont need to be agents/former agents/GI Janes (I pay Pam because she's not there to show up Bond physically, but as pretty much a female Lieter who doubles as a love interest) to be able to handle themselves in Bond's world, just make them interesting.

This dead?

The key to a good Bond-girl is to base them on Fleming archetypes.

Honey Ryder, Domino, Tania, Goodnight, Tiffany Case, Gala Brand, Vesper, Tracy, Pussy, Kissy etc.

Just keep working any of the above themes and you won't go wrong.

Eon creations such as Jinx and Wai Lin are outside the box. Bah! So are faux action-girls such as Amasova = worst Bond girl ever. (to borrow from our old friend Luds)

Bondgirls need inprovements. The last equal Bond girls be Elektra and Fields.
But the last very good Bond girl be Xenia, Natalya, Paris and Wailin.

With Bérénice Marlohe i hope she is cast as new Martin Beswick with Javier Bardem as new Kerim Bay. Don't mind to see them as (or a mix) Turkish, French or Spanish couple.

How was Fields a Bond equal?

Identical twins

The only time this was done right was in OHMSS with Tracy, and in LTK with Pam. Every other time it was horribly executed, and/or they had to be the awful "girl who kicks butt" stereotype like Wai Lin (more like Wai Did She Exist). Bad puns aside, it's not exactly like I care, to be honest. Tatiana Romanova was a very well done Bond girl, and she didn't need to be Bond's equal. I would rather see a well done supporting Bond girl than one that tries to be better than him, and falls flat.

The answer is no if we are talking Bond's physical equal. The top male tennis players beat the top female tennis players. Same with golf. Its no contest. So a woman with comparable physical skills to Bond's should still be overmatched as Bond is top of game in this department.

The possible exceptiion is that he might face a particularly formidable female in the freakish Oddjob/Jaws vein, which would then require him to get by on Bond-wits as well as physical and weapons training.

We've seen Eon attempt to partner Bond with a female equivalent. Most notably Wai Lin and Jinx. Yawn. It wasn't that interesting. Best to construct Bond-girls from the templates provided by Fleming.