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tiffanywint
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PostSubject: Live And Let Die Quirks   Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:17 pm

Mr. Big makes a very odd remark to Bond when he has him captured in the back-room at Filet of Soul New Orleans.

He says Bond went up to Harlem and killed one of the brothers. But what Brother? Bond didn't kill anyone in Harlem. He slamed a ladder into a couple of thugs and that's it. They didn't look dead. :scratch:

==The futuristic white wood-paneling in the FOS set above, looks identical to the wall paneling from the Techtronics Lab in DAF, the previous film. I'm thinking they liked its futuristic look so much, they saved it and used it again for Big's FOS lair.

There is one sigificant villain that never gets his comeuppance in this film. Namely the old fellow, knife-killer, who stabs both British Agent Hamilton in the pts, and CIA Agent Strutter later in the film. He gets them both outside of FOS New Orleans while the funeral procession is passing by.

This guy is still at large jabbing his knife into innocent funeral street-watchers. :x
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Perilagu Khan
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PostSubject: Re: Live And Let Die Quirks   Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:14 am

Head injuries are a funny thing, Tiffy. If one of the brothers got conked on the noggin he could have died in hospital.

PS--Methinks Tyrone the Knife would now be about 100. Could be flashing the shiv in High John the Conqueror Nursing Home, I suppose.
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tiffanywint
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PostSubject: Re: Live And Let Die Quirks   Wed Mar 28, 2012 10:08 am

Perilagu Khan wrote:
Head injuries are a funny thing, Tiffy. If one of the brothers got conked on the noggin he could have died in hospital.

Yes one of those brothers could have succumbed from head injuries. I guess we have to leave it at that. Rog's slow motion assault with the ladder though, wasn't one of Bond's more vicious attacks. I figured these hardend toughs could have picked themselves up. Rog wasn't the toughest of Bonds.
Perilagu Khan wrote:

PS--Methinks Tyrone the Knife would now be about 100. Could be flashing the shiv in High John the Conqueror Nursing Home, I suppose.
But how many more innocent bystanders did he kill before he hit the old folk's home? The man was a public menace. Citizens need be able to stand by idly on the street corner, without fearing some kindly old guy is gonna shove a blade in their side. Too bad Bond or Felix couldn't have found time to deal with this homicidal old bastard. :x
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tiffanywint
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PostSubject: Re: Live And Let Die Quirks   Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:59 pm

Khan do you have any ideas regarding this curious scene.

http://bondandbeyond.forumotion.com/t1375-why-does-tiffany-follow-blofeld-in-drag-from-the-casino

I've got no responses. Not surprised.

I don't think there is an answer. I don't think there is anyway to make sense of the scene.

Maybe St. John or Hamilton might know, or anyone still alive connected with the presentation of the scene.
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AMC Hornet
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PostSubject: Re: Live And Let Die Quirks   Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:22 pm

What's really a pity is that 'Tyrone' didn't flash a broader smile in his scenes, as he was cast because of his mouthful of gold crowns (read Roger Moore's Live and Let Diary for this nugget (sorry - couldn't resist)).

Three years later someone in the EON camp saw Richard Kiel in Silver Streak - with a mouthful of gold teeth, and was inspired to create the character of Jaws.

Goes around, comes around.
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tiffanywint
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PostSubject: Re: Live And Let Die Quirks   Fri Mar 30, 2012 3:59 pm

Old Man,"Tyrone" the Shiv, joins Irma Bunt, in the cast of killers, henchies, thugs that got away and lived to tell about it (in the movies at least) Any others? I think it's a pretty short list.

I'm reluctant to include either Nic Nac or Koskov as they were both captured. Jaws is another, but he crossed over to the side of the angels. I really do hope that after he landed back on terra firma, that he was duly captured and held accountable for his crimes. One wonders.

Maybe he's partying with Bunt and Tyrone, and yukking it up about how they beat the wrath of Bond.
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AMC Hornet
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PostSubject: Re: Live And Let Die Quirks   Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:52 am

How many of the three blind mice were in the cliff-diving hearse?
We never saw Kutz get plucked out of the water off Miami.
'Sideburns' seemed to lose his nerve after getting finger-trapped, and the Spangled mob disappeared after tossing Plenty O'Toole out the window (although if Marc Lawrence was the same character when he went after Scaramanga, then we saw him get his).
For all we know Bond left Whisper in that waterproof container. :afro:

That's it - I'm spent.


Last edited by AMC Hornet on Thu May 03, 2012 2:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
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tiffanywint
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PostSubject: Re: Live And Let Die Quirks   Sat Mar 31, 2012 10:11 am

Whisper is one that needs to be added to the list. He killed Bond's driver earlier in the film. It does appear that Bond failed to decisively deal with him.

But was Kutz really that villanious. I'm trying to isolate demonstrated or complicit killers.

In that sense, Tyrone, Bunt, Jaws and Whisper all qualify.

The Spangled Mob hoodlums didn't actually kill anyone in the film. And was Kutz really implicated in killing? Was he not more scientific consultant for an extortion scheme, who rebelled when he saw the true murderous scope of the plot and the depth of Largo's depravity vis a vis Domino?
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Blunt Instrument
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PostSubject: Re: Live And Let Die Quirks   Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:13 am

AMC Hornet wrote:
How many of the three blind mice were in the cliff-diving hearse?

None of them ... but nor in fact is anyone. Dr No's budget obviously didn't stretch to dummies.
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Perilagu Khan
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PostSubject: a   Sun Apr 01, 2012 1:20 am

tiffanywint wrote:
Whisper is one that needs to be added to the list.

I think this could use its own thread, Tiffy.
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tiffanywint
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PostSubject: Re: Live And Let Die Quirks   Sun Apr 01, 2012 6:21 pm

Perilagu Khan wrote:
tiffanywint wrote:
Whisper is one that needs to be added to the list.

I think this could use its own thread, Tiffy.

Yes quite possibly it might. Good idea, although I think we may have exhausted the candidates list already.

Namely, Bunt, Tyrone, Whisper and Jaws.

btw, I do believe we are intended to consider all three-blind-mice, to have gone over the cliff with the car, even if they do appear to have all been hiding on the floor and out of sight, at impact.
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Loomis
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PostSubject: Re: Live And Let Die Quirks   Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:58 pm

Don't forget that Scorpion Girl (DIE ANOTHER DAY) also gets off unpunished. She tortures Bond for an entire year sans consequences.
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tiffanywint
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PostSubject: Re: Live And Let Die Quirks   Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:14 pm

Loomis wrote:
Don't forget that Scorpion Girl (DIE ANOTHER DAY) also gets off unpunished. She tortures Bond for an entire year sans consequences.

Yes of course, she definitely qualifies.

Updated list:

Bunt, Tyrone, Whisper, Jaws, Scorpion Girl.
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PostSubject: Re: Live And Let Die Quirks   Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:26 pm

Loomis wrote:
Don't forget that Scorpion Girl (DIE ANOTHER DAY) also gets off unpunished. She tortures Bond for an entire year sans consequences.

Being a North Korean is punishment enough.
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right idea, wrong pussy
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PostSubject: Re: Live And Let Die Quirks   Sat Apr 28, 2012 11:49 am

tiffanywint wrote:
Mr. Big makes a very odd remark to Bond when he has him captured in the back-room at Filet of Soul New Orleans.

He says Bond went up to Harlem and killed one of the brothers. But what Brother? Bond didn't kill anyone in Harlem. He slamed a ladder into a couple of thugs and that's it. They didn't look dead. :scratch:

In an attempt to get this thread back on topic, I like to share my theory about this oft-questioned line from LALD. I personally think that Mankiewicz's original script had more elements from Fleming's book in it, and while these references were mostly erased as filming went on, certain lines weren't removed or refilmed (a typical example of Guy Hamilton's Achilles heel of continuity - the man was great on groovy atmosphere, but he couldn't keep the plot straight to save his life).

There's an example of what I mean later in the film, and I think it helps me explain the line Tiff is questioning. After Kananga has captured Bond, but before he ties Bond and Solitaire up above the shark pit, he is casually showing Bond around and explaining his operation. Bond sees some sort of monorail thing, and says, "and that must lead to the lost wreck of the Scoundrel" or something like that. Now in the context of the final cut of the film, that line makes no sense. It only makes sense if you recall that in Fleming's novel, Mr. Big's plot involved smuggling gold from an old wrecked pirate ship out of Jamica to fund SMERSH. My guess is that an old shipwreck originally figured in the script, was dropped, but that line was left in (much like Bond's explanation of "poor Plenty" stumbling in to Tiffany's house in DAF, which makes no sense in the final cut of that film either).

If I'm right, this could explain Big's remark about killing "one of the brothers" in Harlem. In the novel, after Bond's finger is broken, he shoots his way out of Big's hideout (killing TeeHee in the process, if I recall rightly) and speeds back downtown in a stolen car. So perhaps Bond's escape from Harlem was orginally meant to be much more elaborate than what's now on film. Perhaps they meant to film something elaborate, but given the unhealthy attention local gangs were giving the production team while they filmed in Harlem, they decided to ditch the elaborate action sequence, have Rog do a couple of pretty primitive action moves that look like the sort of fight he might have done in a quickly filmed episode of The Saint, and get the hell out of Dodge. If Mr. Big's line was filmed before the Harlem sequences were shot, I'd be even more sure of my hunch. They simply didn't go back and refilm a line they'd already committed to film.
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PostSubject: Re: Live And Let Die Quirks   Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:08 pm

Bond gets referred to as a honkey :face:

Quote :
Names is for tombstones, baby! Y'all take this honkey out and WASTE HIM! NOW!
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AMC Hornet
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PostSubject: Re: Live And Let Die Quirks   Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:53 pm

right idea, wrong pussy wrote:
"and that must lead to the lost wreck of the Scoundrel" or something like that.

"Ah, an underground monorail - connected to the last refuge of a scoundrel, no doubt."

It was supposed to be Kananga's escape route if necessary, but ended up being Bond & Solitaire's instead.
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tiffanywint
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PostSubject: Re: Live And Let Die Quirks   Sat Apr 28, 2012 5:41 pm

right idea, wrong pussy wrote:
In an attempt to get this thread back on topic, I like to share my theory about this oft-questioned line from LALD. I personally think that Mankiewicz's original script had more elements from Fleming's book in it, and while these references were mostly erased as filming went on, certain lines weren't removed or refilmed (a typical example of Guy Hamilton's Achilles heel of continuity - the man was great on groovy atmosphere, but he couldn't keep the plot straight to save his life).

There's an example of what I mean later in the film, and I think it helps me explain the line Tiff is questioning. After Kananga has captured Bond, but before he ties Bond and Solitaire up above the shark pit, he is casually showing Bond around and explaining his operation. Bond sees some sort of monorail thing, and says, "and that must lead to the lost wreck of the Scoundrel" or something like that. Now in the context of the final cut of the film, that line makes no sense. It only makes sense if you recall that in Fleming's novel, Mr. Big's plot involved smuggling gold from an old wrecked pirate ship out of Jamica to fund SMERSH. My guess is that an old shipwreck originally figured in the script, was dropped, but that line was left in (much like Bond's explanation of "poor Plenty" stumbling in to Tiffany's house in DAF, which makes no sense in the final cut of that film either).

If I'm right, this could explain Big's remark about killing "one of the brothers" in Harlem. In the novel, after Bond's finger is broken, he shoots his way out of Big's hideout (killing TeeHee in the process, if I recall rightly) and speeds back downtown in a stolen car. So perhaps Bond's escape from Harlem was orginally meant to be much more elaborate than what's now on film. Perhaps they meant to film something elaborate, but given the unhealthy attention local gangs were giving the production team while they filmed in Harlem, they decided to ditch the elaborate action sequence, have Rog do a couple of pretty primitive action moves that look like the sort of fight he might have done in a quickly filmed episode of The Saint, and get the hell out of Dodge. If Mr. Big's line was filmed before the Harlem sequences were shot, I'd be even more sure of my hunch. They simply didn't go back and refilm a line they'd already committed to film.

Yep, your explanation for Mr. Big's remark makes as much sense as any eg. they shot the line before they realized Bond hadn't actually killed anyone in Harlem. That fits or maybe as PK says, one of the guys died of head injuries, but that certainly wasn't made clear.

As for Plenty stumbling into Tiff's house, that does actually work, although just barely. Editing in post is what barely allows it to stand-up. The deleted scenes flesh it out.

But why Tiffany followed Ernst out of the casino is still a huge Bond mystery, maybe never to be solved.

Mrs Aural Sects wrote:
Bond gets referred to as a honkey :face:

Quote :
Names is for tombstones, baby! Y'all take this honkey out and WASTE HIM! NOW!

Rog Bond was pretty white-bread in LALD. Strutter had a great line about Bond's "disguise." Like following a cue ball. laugh
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Perilagu Khan
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PostSubject: a   Sun Apr 29, 2012 12:22 am

tiffanywint wrote:
right idea, wrong pussy wrote:
In an attempt to get this thread back on topic, I like to share my theory about this oft-questioned line from LALD. I personally think that Mankiewicz's original script had more elements from Fleming's book in it, and while these references were mostly erased as filming went on, certain lines weren't removed or refilmed (a typical example of Guy Hamilton's Achilles heel of continuity - the man was great on groovy atmosphere, but he couldn't keep the plot straight to save his life).

There's an example of what I mean later in the film, and I think it helps me explain the line Tiff is questioning. After Kananga has captured Bond, but before he ties Bond and Solitaire up above the shark pit, he is casually showing Bond around and explaining his operation. Bond sees some sort of monorail thing, and says, "and that must lead to the lost wreck of the Scoundrel" or something like that. Now in the context of the final cut of the film, that line makes no sense. It only makes sense if you recall that in Fleming's novel, Mr. Big's plot involved smuggling gold from an old wrecked pirate ship out of Jamica to fund SMERSH. My guess is that an old shipwreck originally figured in the script, was dropped, but that line was left in (much like Bond's explanation of "poor Plenty" stumbling in to Tiffany's house in DAF, which makes no sense in the final cut of that film either).

If I'm right, this could explain Big's remark about killing "one of the brothers" in Harlem. In the novel, after Bond's finger is broken, he shoots his way out of Big's hideout (killing TeeHee in the process, if I recall rightly) and speeds back downtown in a stolen car. So perhaps Bond's escape from Harlem was orginally meant to be much more elaborate than what's now on film. Perhaps they meant to film something elaborate, but given the unhealthy attention local gangs were giving the production team while they filmed in Harlem, they decided to ditch the elaborate action sequence, have Rog do a couple of pretty primitive action moves that look like the sort of fight he might have done in a quickly filmed episode of The Saint, and get the hell out of Dodge. If Mr. Big's line was filmed before the Harlem sequences were shot, I'd be even more sure of my hunch. They simply didn't go back and refilm a line they'd already committed to film.

Yep, your explanation for Mr. Big's remark makes as much sense as any eg. they shot the line before they realized Bond hadn't actually killed anyone in Harlem. That fits or maybe as PK says, one of the guys died of head injuries, but that certainly wasn't made clear.

As for Plenty stumbling into Tiff's house, that does actually work, although just barely. Editing in post is what barely allows it to stand-up. The deleted scenes flesh it out.

But why Tiffany followed Ernst out of the casino is still a huge Bond mystery, maybe never to be solved.

Mrs Aural Sects wrote:
Bond gets referred to as a honkey :face:

Quote :
Names is for tombstones, baby! Y'all take this honkey out and WASTE HIM! NOW!

Rog Bond was pretty white-bread in LALD. Strutter had a great line about Bond's "disguise." Like following a cue ball. laugh



He's headin' on in!

I love the entire Harlem sequence. Eon actually had the guts to show whitey on the receiving end of the racism bidniss. Funny as hell, too.

"Bourbon and water, no ice please."

"That's extra, man!"

"Haw, haw!"
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tiffanywint
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PostSubject: Re: Live And Let Die Quirks   Sun Apr 29, 2012 3:04 pm

^ Tom Mank writing and Guy Hamilton directing. It's pure Bond gold! :D

DAF and LALD is an exhilarating Bond double-bill. A great antitode to the BCH (Babs-Craig-Haggis) fever, caused by the newer films.
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Perilagu Khan
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PostSubject: Re: Live And Let Die Quirks   Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:32 am

Based on my most recent viewing of LALD, I'd almost be inclined to rate its script as the best in the series.
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PostSubject: Re: Live And Let Die Quirks   Mon Apr 30, 2012 1:04 am

Perilagu Khan wrote:
Based on my most recent viewing of LALD, I'd almost be inclined to rate its script as the best in the series.
Really? Just for the dialogue, or for everything?

Anyway, I don't really rate LIVE AND LET DIE. Despite some amusing moments and some hilarious dialogue, I've always found it a bit of a bore.
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Perilagu Khan
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PostSubject: s   Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:51 am

Harmsway wrote:
Perilagu Khan wrote:
Based on my most recent viewing of LALD, I'd almost be inclined to rate its script as the best in the series.
Really? Just for the dialogue, or for everything?

Dialogue sans plot. The plot may be the most unimaginative in series history, but the dialogue is well nigh perfection.
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Hilly KCMG
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PostSubject: Re: Live And Let Die Quirks   Mon Apr 30, 2012 6:39 am

For some reason I always get tickled by the moment with Felix on the phone to the chap who owned the Piper Cub. Not exactly the best bit of the dialogue, yes but still.
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Perilagu Khan
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PostSubject: Re: Live And Let Die Quirks   Mon Apr 30, 2012 7:16 am



Now I'm sure there's no reason for name-calling, Mr. Bleeker. You'll have to forward that suggestion to Washington.

laugh
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