More Adult, Less Censored Discussion of Agent 007 and Beyond : Where Your Hangovers Are Swiftly Cured |
| | bond 'continuing to evolve' ... ? | |
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+5Blunt Instrument Perilagu Khan Somerset CJB trevanian 9 posters | |
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trevanian Head of Station
Posts : 1958 Member Since : 2011-03-15 Location : Pac NW
| Subject: bond 'continuing to evolve' ... ? Wed Sep 21, 2022 3:16 pm | |
| Thought it couldn't get any worse this century, but subtext here is IMO rather painful:
https://variety.com/2022/film/global/james-bond-007-barbara-broccoli-michael-g-wilson-1235378239/
They would definitely get me back as a customer if they cast well and did a one-off period Bond (Hell, at this point I've got it a quarter-written already), but the odds on the one are bad and the odds on the other are nonexistent. |
| | | CJB 00 Agent
Posts : 5498 Member Since : 2011-03-14 Location : 'Straya
| Subject: Re: bond 'continuing to evolve' ... ? Thu Sep 22, 2022 12:59 am | |
| Thanks, but no thanks. About as interested in an "evolved" Bond as I've been in the wokified wearing-Tolkien-as-a-skin-suit LOTR show, which is to say I've ignored it completely. |
| | | Somerset 'R'
Posts : 439 Member Since : 2021-06-19
| Subject: Re: bond 'continuing to evolve' ... ? Thu Sep 22, 2022 3:14 am | |
| - Quote :
- “That’s why, when people go, ‘Oh, who are you going to get?’ it’s not just about casting an actor for a film. It’s about a reinvention, and ‘Where are we taking it? What do we want to do with the character?’” says Broccoli. “And then, once we figure that out, who’s the right person for that particular reinvention?"
Considering that TLD was written for generic Bond and wouldn't have been much different with Brosnan, MGM basically told Eon Brosnan was Bond for GE, and Craig and Henry Cavill were not exactly the same fit for CR, I think this must be the first time they are approaching it like this. - Quote :
- the once-womanizing spy and ensuring more fulfilling, meatier roles for the female stars of the franchise
These old saws, I tell you... - Quote :
- Craig, she adds, “cracked Bond open emotionally,” bringing audiences into the character’s inner life.
Speaking of saws, here's an old new one. - Quote :
- “People have always come to us about doing a TV show, [saying,] ‘Oh, you should do a Bond challenge,’ but we always stayed away from it because we didn’t want to put people in danger and have them do dangerous thing, because it’s not for members of the public — it’s for trained professionals,” explains Broccoli.
Eh? Who's been pitching this Bond challenge thing? As if it's some obvious idea: "Here's the pitch: Joe Schmuck strapped to a jet pack and see where he lands. The twist? No health and safety!" - Quote :
- Even in this interview, when asked whether Amazon might ask for a narrative Bond TV show, Wilson notes, “We’re trying to keep it theatrical,” and Broccoli swiftly retorts: “Well, we’re gonna keep it theatrical. We’re not going to try; we’ve got to do it. It’s just a theatrical franchise.”
"They are trying to make us do streaming and it might happen yet." - Quote :
- “I’m gonna die with my boots on,” she says. “My joy is my family and my work. I don’t see it as a hardship. Every day, you’re up against new challenges, and it’s fun and it keeps you young.”
I have wondered if she had another era in her, interest wise. Seems so. I did think at one point their selling was on the table. But I also don't think she is interested in revisiting what she's already done Bond-wise. I have a hard time imagining what can be done to satisfy a desire to do something new with it after sixty years yet remain recognizable. But we will see! |
| | | CJB 00 Agent
Posts : 5498 Member Since : 2011-03-14 Location : 'Straya
| Subject: Re: bond 'continuing to evolve' ... ? Thu Sep 22, 2022 8:43 am | |
| - Somerset wrote:
-
- Quote :
- “That’s why, when people go, ‘Oh, who are you going to get?’ it’s not just about casting an actor for a film. It’s about a reinvention, and ‘Where are we taking it? What do we want to do with the character?’” says Broccoli. “And then, once we figure that out, who’s the right person for that particular reinvention?"
Considering that TLD was written for generic Bond and wouldn't have been much different with Brosnan, MGM basically told Eon Brosnan was Bond for GE, and Craig and Henry Cavill were not exactly the same fit for CR, I think this must be the first time they are approaching it like this.
Easy to do when there's near-universal agreement about what Bond is and should be. In 1987, everyone knew James Bond's basic character traits and personality and even the lib-iest liberal would've laugh at the concept of Bond being a woman or whatever the hell "non-binary" is. Now, like every other long-standing institution and artistic creation, it needs to be de-masculinised and, more importantly perhaps, de-Europeanised. |
| | | Perilagu Khan 00 Agent
Posts : 5641 Member Since : 2011-03-21 Location : The high plains
| Subject: Re: bond 'continuing to evolve' ... ? Thu Sep 22, 2022 3:48 pm | |
| - CJB wrote:
- Somerset wrote:
-
- Quote :
- “That’s why, when people go, ‘Oh, who are you going to get?’ it’s not just about casting an actor for a film. It’s about a reinvention, and ‘Where are we taking it? What do we want to do with the character?’” says Broccoli. “And then, once we figure that out, who’s the right person for that particular reinvention?"
Considering that TLD was written for generic Bond and wouldn't have been much different with Brosnan, MGM basically told Eon Brosnan was Bond for GE, and Craig and Henry Cavill were not exactly the same fit for CR, I think this must be the first time they are approaching it like this.
Easy to do when there's near-universal agreement about what Bond is and should be. In 1987, everyone knew James Bond's basic character traits and personality and even the lib-iest liberal would've laugh at the concept of Bond being a woman or whatever the hell "non-binary" is.
Now, like every other long-standing institution and artistic creation, it needs to be de-masculinised and, more importantly perhaps, de-Europeanised. Just so. We know dam' well Babs et al. would like nothing better than to cast Lashana Lynch--or a similar figure--as LaJa'ymius Bond. And it appears just such an act of cultural imperialism and vandalism is foreordained. It's just a quesiton of when. |
| | | Blunt Instrument 00 Agent
Posts : 6210 Member Since : 2011-03-20 Location : Propping up the bar
| Subject: Re: bond 'continuing to evolve' ... ? Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:22 pm | |
| Had to chuckle when I heard today that Brozzer said he didn't care who the next Bond was, but wished them well. Someone's had quite enough of being asked the same question repeatedly, it seems.
|
| | | trevanian Head of Station
Posts : 1958 Member Since : 2011-03-15 Location : Pac NW
| Subject: Re: bond 'continuing to evolve' ... ? Fri Sep 23, 2022 3:17 am | |
| Don't know if it was clickbait, but I saw a headline today in one of the trades that indicated Eon is concentrating more on figuring out the next villain first before they look at who is playing Bond.
Sounds like eyewash. If they were actually putting the plot and antagonist first, they'd actually be developing a genuine narrative that any Bond could plop down into, which puts paid to all the evolved Bond stuff. Am starting to think this recent flurry of PR interviews is their equivalent of what Harve Bennett did when Spock's death in WRATH OF KHAN leaked early, which was, in his words, to throw 'tin foil at the radar' to confuse things. |
| | | Sarai Head of Station
Posts : 1442 Member Since : 2019-07-23 Location : Gerudo Town
| Subject: Re: bond 'continuing to evolve' ... ? Fri Sep 23, 2022 5:53 am | |
| - Perilagu Khan wrote:
- CJB wrote:
- Somerset wrote:
-
- Quote :
- “That’s why, when people go, ‘Oh, who are you going to get?’ it’s not just about casting an actor for a film. It’s about a reinvention, and ‘Where are we taking it? What do we want to do with the character?’” says Broccoli. “And then, once we figure that out, who’s the right person for that particular reinvention?"
Considering that TLD was written for generic Bond and wouldn't have been much different with Brosnan, MGM basically told Eon Brosnan was Bond for GE, and Craig and Henry Cavill were not exactly the same fit for CR, I think this must be the first time they are approaching it like this.
Easy to do when there's near-universal agreement about what Bond is and should be. In 1987, everyone knew James Bond's basic character traits and personality and even the lib-iest liberal would've laugh at the concept of Bond being a woman or whatever the hell "non-binary" is.
Now, like every other long-standing institution and artistic creation, it needs to be de-masculinised and, more importantly perhaps, de-Europeanised. They could do that but it would be a massive tank. Is this about a more sensitive Bond? I've never been sure if I even like Bond as a person. It's fun to play with those ideas when watching powerful characters and you don't need to like him to love the movies. Change for the sake of change is always a horrible idea. I want to see Connery Bond, I want to see Dalton.
Just so. We know dam' well Babs et al. would like nothing better than to cast Lashana Lynch--or a similar figure--as LaJa'ymius Bond. And it appears just such an act of cultural imperialism and vandalism is foreordained. It's just a quesiton of when. |
| | | CJB 00 Agent
Posts : 5498 Member Since : 2011-03-14 Location : 'Straya
| Subject: Re: bond 'continuing to evolve' ... ? Sat Sep 24, 2022 1:40 am | |
| - Blunt Instrument wrote:
- Had to chuckle when I heard today that Brozzer said he didn't care who the next Bond was, but wished them well.
Someone's had quite enough of being asked the same question repeatedly, it seems.
He's on a bit of publicity tour at the moment and had a bit to say: https://variety.com/2022/film/news/pierce-brosnan-shades-not-time-to-die-shuts-down-next-bond-question-1235380653/ - Quote :
- “Who should do it? I don’t care,” Brosnan said.
The actor added, “It’ll be interesting to see who they get, who the man shall be. Whoever he be, I wish him well.” GQ UK noted that Brosnan said this with “a tone that indicates it’s maybe not actually that interesting.” Horrified by the assumption that Bond needs to be a he/him. - Quote :
- However, just because Brosnan loves Daniel Craig doesn’t mean he loved all of Daniel Craig’s Bond movies. “I saw the last one and I saw ‘Skyfall.’ I love ‘Skyfall.’ I’m not too sure about the last one,” the actor said. “Daniel always gives of his heart. Very courageous, very strong. But…”
Brosnan didn’t finish his thought, but he clearly didn’t love “No Time to Die” like he loved “Skyfall.” Brosnan appears sound on NTTD. Anyway, Brosnan in that GQ interview talked about trying to straddle both the Connery and Moore interpretations. Some people would've called that "lazy" but, really, in hindsight, wasn't it great when we had a Bond actor who was respectful of the legacy and didn't set out to reinvent the wheel for a franchise that stood the test of time - not to mention never demanding the character be killed off. |
| | | Blunt Instrument 00 Agent
Posts : 6210 Member Since : 2011-03-20 Location : Propping up the bar
| Subject: Re: bond 'continuing to evolve' ... ? Sat Sep 24, 2022 11:09 am | |
| Related sidenote - tonight at 9:00 on Sky Documentaries, 'GoldenEra' ... on its 25th anniversary, a 2-hour docu on the creation and legacy of the GoldenEye videogame. That's my Saturday night sorted. |
| | | trevanian Head of Station
Posts : 1958 Member Since : 2011-03-15 Location : Pac NW
| Subject: Re: bond 'continuing to evolve' ... ? Mon Sep 26, 2022 2:55 pm | |
| - CJB wrote:
-
Anyway, Brosnan in that GQ interview talked about trying to straddle both the Connery and Moore interpretations. Some people would've called that "lazy" but, really, in hindsight, wasn't it great when we had a Bond actor who was respectful of the legacy and didn't set out to reinvent the wheel for a franchise that stood the test of time - not to mention never demanding the character be killed off. I guess you can maybe overthink your performance, but then again, when you just go off the gut it can become equally problematic -- and having a director actually direct you can correct some of that. I'm thinking of TWINE, where Brosnan is to me not anywhere near Moore or Connery, but seemingly trying to push into an overtly emotional area that I think of as Harrison Ford acting -- when he is running through mi6 and yelling in particular, which just made me think of Ford in JEDI when he is running away from the building that is about to blow up. Maybe after a couple go-rounds, he felt that he could start to put more of himself into it ... then again, that's also when he was publicly lobbying for Scorsese or Ang Lee to do the next film. As always, I kind of come back round to TAILOR OF PANAMA, because I think Brosnan there is very much like the Bond I wanted him to be in the Eon films, and I attribute that to Boorman -- specifically, Boorman knowing how to get the best out of Brosnan and Brosnan being happy to do so. There are a couple moments in THOMAS CROWN that also work in that vein, though the whole thing a little too light for those moments to be anything other than nice little punctuations. I've often wondered about Brosnan's going out of his way to not mention or compliment Dalton as his being upset that Dalton got to tread -- if not fully break -- new ground ahead of him. |
| | | Somerset 'R'
Posts : 439 Member Since : 2021-06-19
| Subject: Re: bond 'continuing to evolve' ... ? Mon Sep 26, 2022 3:54 pm | |
| - trevanian wrote:
- I've often wondered about Brosnan's going out of his way to not mention or compliment Dalton as his being upset that Dalton got to tread -- if not fully break -- new ground ahead of him.
At the time I don’t really think MGM or Eon or Brosnan saw any benefit in him comparing himself to Dalton, who wasn’t then a success. The only touch points for the public were Connery and Moore, which is why MGM and he and the media made comparisons between those two guys and himself. He definitely got to show more of the character’s psyche than either Connery or Moore. He was not their unflappable supermen Bonds. And so comparisons with both Dalton and Lazenby would have been warranted in that regard. I think the beach scene in GE, whatever you think of it, might be the first time a Bond actor was made to play vulnerable since Lazenby at the skating rink. But basically I think it’s just that if they were trying to sell these films it doesn’t make sense to go there when those other two guys flamed out in the public mind. I also kinda think this is why Brosnan doing the Connery-Moore comparison even all these years later sells himself short. I feel like he’s remembering the memories of the talking points rather than why the talking points were given to him in the first place. |
| | | Blunt Instrument 00 Agent
Posts : 6210 Member Since : 2011-03-20 Location : Propping up the bar
| Subject: Re: bond 'continuing to evolve' ... ? Mon Sep 26, 2022 6:36 pm | |
| Brosnan did admit that when he was driving along back in summer '87 and caught sight of the roadside billboards for Daylights he pulled over, got out of the car and basically threw a 'It should've been ME!' shitfit. |
| | | CJB 00 Agent
Posts : 5498 Member Since : 2011-03-14 Location : 'Straya
| Subject: Re: bond 'continuing to evolve' ... ? Tue Sep 27, 2022 1:15 pm | |
| Yes, I suspect that's part of why he never talks about Dalton too much (not that him losing out in '87 was Dalton's fault at all). |
| | | Somerset 'R'
Posts : 439 Member Since : 2021-06-19
| Subject: Re: bond 'continuing to evolve' ... ? Wed Sep 28, 2022 2:37 pm | |
| He’s probably glad it didn’t work out then in retrospect. Got four films instead of two and was a bigger success in the 90s than he could’ve been at the tail end of the 80s. |
| | | hegottheboot Head of Station
Posts : 1758 Member Since : 2012-01-08 Location : TN, USA
| Subject: Re: bond 'continuing to evolve' ... ? Thu Oct 06, 2022 3:57 am | |
| I've heard him in some interviews say he felt better about it after the aftermath and that in hindsight it was a good thing. I've always felt it was absolutely perfect the way it worked out. In 1986 he was too young and in 1995 he had the proper aging especially for the postmodern approach they wanted for GE. In '86 he wouldn't have had the requisite swagger he would've been trying to pull off and the whole film would've been a harder sell.
Whereas Dalton was at the perfect age to tackle the part and he would've been too young for it in 1969. Which of course is exactly what he said at the time when being considered for OHMSS when he took himself out of the running because the man just KNOWS the character so well. And the words he said about how he felt when the torch was passed...oh my word...I don't think anyone FEELS it in the same manner. In describing seeing the ads and Goldeneye materials he said a quote like this, at least this is how I remember it: "I saw Pierce up there holding that gun and a weight fell away from my body."
I'm not sure why we all seem to have a feeling of Brozzer not being keen on Dalton at times. |
| | | Salomé Potential 00 Agent
Posts : 3303 Member Since : 2011-03-17
| Subject: Re: bond 'continuing to evolve' ... ? Thu Oct 06, 2022 9:47 am | |
| I honestly don't get the idea that Craig "cracked" Bond open emotionally.
Unless you think that playing a moody/dour version of the character is somehow traversing some new ground. If anything, I would say that Craig's Bond is emotionally the least interesting of all. |
| | | CJB 00 Agent
Posts : 5498 Member Since : 2011-03-14 Location : 'Straya
| Subject: Re: bond 'continuing to evolve' ... ? Thu Oct 06, 2022 12:21 pm | |
| Cregg-Bond had all the emotional complexity of a fart in a stiff breeze.
Simply being pissed off all the time and being thrown into unconvincing romantic scenarios - the last and most important one being least convincing of all - is not complex.
---
Boot, I agree. TD and PB would respectively have been far too boyish for Bond at the ages they were first considered. Connery looked grizzled at age 32 so he got away with it just fine.
People often comment that people looked old for their age in the past as compared to today. Smoking perhaps? Maybe the vaping trend will sort the babyfaces out. |
| | | trevanian Head of Station
Posts : 1958 Member Since : 2011-03-15 Location : Pac NW
| Subject: Re: bond 'continuing to evolve' ... ? Fri Oct 07, 2022 2:11 am | |
| I still think Dalton would have been the perfect age to take over post-MOONRAKER, and have actually dreamed occasionally about him doing a 5-film run for the 1980s (tho hopefully not anything like VIEW TO A KILL, which has never worked for me.)
|
| | | trevanian Head of Station
Posts : 1958 Member Since : 2011-03-15 Location : Pac NW
| Subject: Re: bond 'continuing to evolve' ... ? Fri Oct 07, 2022 2:17 am | |
| - Salomé wrote:
- I honestly don't get the idea that Craig "cracked" Bond open emotionally.
I think his Bond is just plain cracked. No way that Bond in any incarnation should be just saying "no, no no, no" like he does when the silos start closing in NTTD -- that's what ordinary folk do when they're panicked and frustrated. The number of ways in which he completely missed the boat with his choices was staggering to me just during CR, but my god, he just kept being wrong -- or as I guess his Bond would say, 'no no no no no!' I saw something online yesterday at Variety or THR where they put up like 30 or 40 possible Bonds for consideration, and that list was absolutely nutso. In addition to curly-haired guys who looked like children, they also included Delroy Lindo ... and Brosnan. I think I've said this before, but one thing that Craig always seems to miss is the joy of doing. It is just like he is trained to do a thing, and he does it like a robot (except when he is going 'no no no no no' that is.) |
| | | Blunt Instrument 00 Agent
Posts : 6210 Member Since : 2011-03-20 Location : Propping up the bar
| Subject: Re: bond 'continuing to evolve' ... ? Fri Oct 07, 2022 7:34 am | |
| CraigBond did at least have some 'office banter' with Q and Moneypenny, but I get what you mean trev ... there's nothing like Brozzer smiling as the Beamer's tyres re-inflate in TND, to pull just one example off the top of my head. |
| | | Somerset 'R'
Posts : 439 Member Since : 2021-06-19
| Subject: Re: bond 'continuing to evolve' ... ? Sun Oct 09, 2022 2:45 am | |
| - Blunt Instrument wrote:
- CraigBond did at least have some 'office banter' with Q and Moneypenny, but I get what you mean trev ... there's nothing like Brozzer smiling as the Beamer's tyres re-inflate in TND, to pull just one example off the top of my head.
In a similar vein one of my favorite Brosnan moments is in TWINE when he looks at Denise while readying his grappling watch in the midst of the gunfire and says, "Stay calm" with a smile. |
| | | Perilagu Khan 00 Agent
Posts : 5641 Member Since : 2011-03-21 Location : The high plains
| Subject: Re: bond 'continuing to evolve' ... ? Mon Oct 10, 2022 2:43 am | |
| - trevanian wrote:
- Salomé wrote:
- I honestly don't get the idea that Craig "cracked" Bond open emotionally.
I think his Bond is just plain cracked.
No way that Bond in any incarnation should be just saying "no, no no, no" like he does when the silos start closing in NTTD -- that's what ordinary folk do when they're panicked and frustrated. The number of ways in which he completely missed the boat with his choices was staggering to me just during CR, but my god, he just kept being wrong -- or as I guess his Bond would say, 'no no no no no!'
I saw something online yesterday at Variety or THR where they put up like 30 or 40 possible Bonds for consideration, and that list was absolutely nutso. In addition to curly-haired guys who looked like children, they also included Delroy Lindo ... and Brosnan.
I think I've said this before, but one thing that Craig always seems to miss is the joy of doing. It is just like he is trained to do a thing, and he does it like a robot (except when he is going 'no no no no no' that is.) True. There's little joy in Craig's films. However, I think we can say the same about Dalton's. His films are bloody serious, even a bit grim, and when Dalton does try to demonstrate something approaching ecstacy, what emerges is a twisted grimace. And I say this as a tremendous admirer of Dalton's Bond films. |
| | | Blunt Instrument 00 Agent
Posts : 6210 Member Since : 2011-03-20 Location : Propping up the bar
| Subject: Re: bond 'continuing to evolve' ... ? Mon Oct 10, 2022 7:33 am | |
| There's no denying his joy at the end of the seaplane action sequence in LTK, though. |
| | | CJB 00 Agent
Posts : 5498 Member Since : 2011-03-14 Location : 'Straya
| Subject: Re: bond 'continuing to evolve' ... ? Mon Oct 10, 2022 12:13 pm | |
| Agree that there's not a lot of joie de vivre in the Dalton films (compared to Connery/Moore) but at least we didn't have to hear about his childhood and step-sibling rivalry over and over. Small mercies. |
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