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 2012 Sight & Sound Survey

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HJackson
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PostSubject: 2012 Sight & Sound Survey   Thu Aug 02, 2012 8:59 am

The Critics Top Ten Films of All Time
1. Vertigo (Hitchcock, 1958)
2. Citizen Kane (Welles, 1941)
3. Tokyo Story (Ozu, 1953)
4. La Regle du jeu (Renoir, 1939)
5. Sunrise: a Song for Two Humans (Murnau, 1927)
6. 2001: A Space Odyssey (Kubrick, 1968)
7. The Searchers (Ford, 1956)
8. Man with a Movie Camera (Dziga Vertov, 1929)
9. The Passion of Joan of Arc (Dreyer, 1927)
10. 8 ½ (Fellini, 1963)

The Directors Top Ten Films of All Time
1. Tokyo Story (Ozu, 1953)
=2 2001: A Space Odyssey (Kubrick, 1968)
=2 Citizen Kane (Welles, 1941)
4. 8 ½ (Fellini, 1963)
5. Taxi Driver (Scorsese, 1980)
6. Apocalypse Now (Coppola, 1979)
=7 The Godfather (Coppola, 1972)
=7 Vertigo (Hitchcock, 1958)
9. Mirror (Tarkovsky, 1974)
10. Bicycle Thieves (De Sica, 1948)

Probably the most respected film poll in the world. The magazine isn't published until Friday, but the top fifty films have been announced. Most interesting is the fall of CITIZEN KANE from top spot in both critics' and directors' lists (held since 1962, and since the introduction of the directors' list in 1992) to VERTIGO and TOKYO STORY respectively.
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PostSubject: Re: 2012 Sight & Sound Survey   Thu Aug 02, 2012 9:02 am

Getting more than a little tired of the overpraise of VERTIGO, CITIZEN KANE, and the self-important mess that's APOCALYPSE NOW.
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PostSubject: Re: 2012 Sight & Sound Survey   Thu Aug 02, 2012 9:28 am

Where's MRS. DOUBTFIRE?
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PostSubject: Re: 2012 Sight & Sound Survey   Thu Aug 02, 2012 9:37 am

Largo's Shark wrote:
Getting more than a little tired of the overpraise of VERTIGO, CITIZEN KANE, and the self-important mess that's APOCALYPSE NOW.

But VERTIGO deserves all the praise it gets.

8 1/2 shouldn't be on the list, in my opinion. There are a lot better films.

Needs more Harrie Potner.
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PostSubject: Re: 2012 Sight & Sound Survey   Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:10 am

What a scandal.

I like seeing Sunrise and The Passion of Joan of Arc in there. I'm disturbed that it's the critics who like those and not the filmmakers, though.
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PostSubject: Re: 2012 Sight & Sound Survey   Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:13 am

I wonder who these critics and filmmakers are?
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PostSubject: Re: 2012 Sight & Sound Survey   Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:41 am

I recently watched VERTIGO and it gets better everytime I watch it. Herrmann's score completely elevates it for me.

It's good to see Tarkovsky's MIRROR on the Director's list.

I have never been crazy about LA REGLE DE JEU. Much prefer GRANDE ILLUSION from Renoir.

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PostSubject: Re: 2012 Sight & Sound Survey   Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:51 am

Largo's Shark wrote:
I wonder who these critics and filmmakers are?

All the high-profile types get involved with S&S, I believe.
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PostSubject: Re: 2012 Sight & Sound Survey   Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:56 am

What would your pick for #1 be, Sharky?
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PostSubject: Re: 2012 Sight & Sound Survey   Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:05 am

Chimes at Midnight (Welles, 1968).
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PostSubject: Re: 2012 Sight & Sound Survey   Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:18 am

Hmm, not my personal favourite, but a damn fine choice. While I don't agree, I can't say I disagree either.
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PostSubject: Re: 2012 Sight & Sound Survey   Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:27 am

I just think CITIZEN KANE is a too easy choice. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if most of the "directors" here who rate it haven't even seen it.

It's a good film, no doubt about it, but it's very arch at times, and the virtuoso technique on display (Welles and Toland referencing all of their cinematic heroes) often draws too much attention to itself. Orson Welles grew tremendously as a director.
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PostSubject: Re: 2012 Sight & Sound Survey   Thu Aug 02, 2012 12:16 pm

The Sight and Sound list will eventually be published with a list of all the voters by name (as well as their specific choices), so you'll only have to wait a little bit to see who comprised the voting pool.

Re: the toppling of CITIZEN KANE by VERTIGO, VERTIGO is my favorite film of all time, so there's no complaint from this corner. And challenges to the CITIZEN KANE hegemony are always welcome, if only because all hegemonies deserve a challenge now and again, particularly when they arise in critical circles, which are notoriously susceptible to groupthink. But it also must be said there is often a certain wisdom behind gradually accumulated consensus, and for a "great film" touchstone, the world could do far worse than CITIZEN KANE, which is a tremendously accomplished picture.

Anyway, a strong list as usual. It's easy to quibble with certain choices, particularly with their selections from more recent years, but were someone without a great grasp of cinema to obtain a list of films to start with, they could do far, far worse than this.
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PostSubject: Re: 2012 Sight & Sound Survey   Thu Aug 02, 2012 12:29 pm

Harmsway wrote:
Re: the toppling of CITIZEN KANE by VERTIGO, VERTIGO is my favorite film of all time, so there's no complaint from this corner. And challenges to the CITIZEN KANE hegemony are always welcome, if only because all hegemonies deserve a challenge now and again, particularly when they arise in critical circles, which are notoriously susceptible to groupthink.

But surely VERTIGO's status as the "greatest film of all time" is a hegemony in itself, even if it's one you subscribe to? It's one that's come about it in recent years, and I can't help feel it's been influenced by a changing view of cinema in general, but both critics, filmmakers and the general population. One that favours romantic obsession on the self to the point of psychic hedonism, over film's power as a social force. One that draws humanity together, not further inward. A bourgeois trend.

Just playing devil's advocate, here.
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PostSubject: Re: 2012 Sight & Sound Survey   Thu Aug 02, 2012 12:30 pm

Largo's Shark wrote:
Harmsway wrote:
Re: the toppling of CITIZEN KANE by VERTIGO, VERTIGO is my favorite film of all time, so there's no complaint from this corner. And challenges to the CITIZEN KANE hegemony are always welcome, if only because all hegemonies deserve a challenge now and again, particularly when they arise in critical circles, which are notoriously susceptible to groupthink.

But surely VERTIGO's status as the "greatest film of all time" is a hegemony in itself, even if it's one you subscribe to? It's one that's come about it in recent years, and I can't help feel it's been influenced by a changing view of cinema in general, but both critics, filmmakers and the general population. One that favours romantic obsession on the self to the point of psychic hedonism, over film's power as a social force. One that draws humanity together, not further inward. A bourgeois trend.

Just playing devil's advocate, here.

You had me there. Changing tides of taste are indeed interesting.
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PostSubject: Re: 2012 Sight & Sound Survey   Thu Aug 02, 2012 12:40 pm

It's actually a great list, considering how awful it could've been.

Usually, I expect to find something like:

1. CITIZEN KANE
2. CASABLANCA
3. THE GODFATHER
4. BREATHLESS
5. THE GODFATHER, PART II
6. APOCALYPSE NOW
7. LA DOLCE VITA
8. DAYS OF HEAVEN
9. BATTLESHIP POTEMKIN
10. MANHATTAN

And I'm not saying that these are bad or unworthy movies, but I just like seeing things mixed up a bit. I love the fact that John Ford was on the list, and THE SEARCHERS is indeed one of his best films.
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PostSubject: Re: 2012 Sight & Sound Survey   Thu Aug 02, 2012 12:45 pm

Hey, at least it doesn't have STAR WARS, TITANIC, or THE DARK KNIGHT.
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PostSubject: Re: 2012 Sight & Sound Survey   Thu Aug 02, 2012 12:45 pm

Largo's Shark wrote:
But surely VERTIGO's status as the "greatest film of all time" is a hegemony in itself, even if it's one you subscribe to?
It might be, if others run with it, and this becomes a new standard. But while there has been growing consensus around VERTIGO as being one of the great films, I don't think there's been much consensus around VERTIGO being the great film (at least prior to this list). We'll have to see where things go from here. I wouldn't be surprised if VERTIGO ends up being dethroned in the 2014 Sight & Sound poll.

Largo's Shark wrote:
It's one that's come about it in recent years, and I can't help feel it's been influenced by a changing view of cinema in general, but both critics, filmmakers and the general population. One that favours romantic obsession on the self to the point of psychic hedonism, over film's power as a social force.
I do think much of the appeal of VERTIGO lies in its sense of the lostness of the self; with all its mysteries and odd angles, VERTIGO is a kind of quintessentially postmodern film. But so is CITIZEN KANE, as Borges explained rather beautifully, though I doubt that many of CITIZEN KANE's supporters view it as such.
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PostSubject: Re: 2012 Sight & Sound Survey   Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:41 am

The individual ballots are all being released on August 22, but we have a few of the director's lists:

Francis Ford Coppola:
Ashes And Diamonds (1958, dir. Andrzej Wajda)
The Best Years Of Our Lives" (1946, dir William Wyler)
I Vitelloni (1953, dir. Federico Fellini)
The Bad Sleep Well (1960, dir. Akira Kurosawa)
Yojimbo (1961, dir. Akira Kurosawa)
Singin' In The Rain (1952, dir. Stanley Donen & Gene Kelly)
The King Of Comedy (1983, dir Martin Scorsese)
Raging Bull (1980, dir. Martin Scorsese)
The Apartment (1960s, dir. Billy Wilder)
Sunrise (1927, dir. F.W. Murnau)

Michael Mann:
Apocalypse Now (1979, dir. Francis Ford Coppola)
Battleship Potemkin (1925, dir. Sergei Eisenstein)
Citizen Kane (1941, dir. Orson Welles)
Avatar (2009, dir. James Cameron)
Dr. Strangelove (1964, dir. Stanley Kubrick)
Biutiful (2010, dir. Alejandro Gonzalez Inarritu)
My Darling Clementine (1946, dir. John Ford)
The Passion Of Joan Of Arc (1928, dir. Carl Theodor Dreyer)
Raging Bull (1980, dir. Martin Scorsese)
The Wild Bunch (1969, dir. Sam Peckinpah)

Martin Scorsese:
8 1/2 (1963, dir. Federico Fellini)
2001: A Space Odyssey (1968, dir. Stanley Kubrick)
Ashes And Diamonds (1958, dir. Andrzej Wajda)
Citizen Kane (1941, dir. Orson Welles)
The Leopard (1963, dir. Luchino Visconti)
Paisan (1946, dir. Roberto Rossellini)
The Red Shoes (1948, dir. Michael Powell & Emeric Pressburger)
The River (1951, dir. Jean Renoir)
Salvatore Giuliano (1962, dir. Francesco Rosi)
The Searchers (1956, dir. John Ford)
Ugetsu Monogatari (1953, dir. Kenji Mizoguchi)
Vertigo (1958, dir. Alfred Hitchcock)

Quentin Tarantino:
The Good, The Bad & The Ugly (1966, dir. Sergio Leone)
Apocalypse Now (1979, dir. Francis Ford Coppola)
The Bad News Bears (1976, dir. Michael Ritchie)
Carrie (1976, dir. Brian DePalma)
Dazed And Confused (1993, dir. Richard Linklater)
The Great Escape (1963, dir. John Sturges)
His Girl Friday (1940, dir. Howard Hawks)
Jaws (1975, dir. Steven Spielberg)
Pretty Maids All In A Row (1971, dir. Roger Vadim)
Rolling Thunder (1977, dir. John Flynn)
Sorcerer (1977, dir. William Friedkin)
Taxi Driver (1976, dir. Martin Scorsese)

Woody Allen:
Bicycle Thieves (1948, dir. Vittorio De Sica)
The Seventh Seal (1957, dir. Ingmar Bergman)
Citizen Kane (1941, dir. Orson Welles
Amarcord (1973, dir. Federico Fellini
8 1/2 (1963, dir. Federico Fellini)
The 400 Blows (1959, dir. Francois Truffaut)
Rashomon (1950, dir. Akira Kurosawa)
La Grande Illusion (1937, dir. Jean Renoir)
The Discreet Charm Of The Bourgeoisie (1972, dir. Luis Bunuel)
Paths Of Glory (1957, dir. Stanley Kubrick)

Guillermo Del Toro:
Frankenstein (1931, dir. James Whale)
Freaks (1932, dir. Todd Browning)
Shadow Of A Doubt (1943, dir. Alfred Hitchcock)
Greed (1925, dir. Erich Von Stroheim)
Modern Times (1936, dir. Charlie Chaplin)
La Belle et la Bête (1946, dir. Jean Cocteau)
Goodfellas (1990, dir. Martin Scorsese)
Los Olvidados (1950, dir. Luis Bunuel)
Nosferatu (1922, dir. F.W. Murnau)
8 1/2 (1963, dir. Federico Fellini)

Sean Durkin:
The Shining (1980, dir. Stanley Kubrick)
Rosemary’s Baby (1968, dir. Roman Polanski)
Jaws (1975, dir. Steven Spielberg)
3 Women (1977, dir. Robert Altman)
The Birds (1963, dir. Alfred Hitchcock)
The Goonies (1985, dir. Richard Donner)
The Piano Teacher (2001, dir. Michael Haneke)
Persona (1966, dir. Ingmar Bergman)
The Panic In Needle Park (1971, dir. Jerry Schatzberg)
The Conformist (1970, dir. Bernardo Bertolucci)

Michel Hazavanicius:
City Girl (1930, dir. F.W. Murnau)
City Lights (1931, dir. Charlie Chaplin)
To Be Or Not To Be (1942, dir. Ernst Lubitsch)
Citizen Kane (1941, dir. Orson Welles)
The Apartment (1960, dir. Billy Wilder)
The Shining (1980, dir. Stanley Kubrick)
North By Northwest (1959, dir. Alfred Hitchcock)
The Third Man (1949, dir. Carol Reed)
Raging Bull (1980, dir. Martin Scorsese)
Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs (1937, dir. Walt Disney)

Edgar Wright:
2001: A Space Odyssey (1968, dir. Stanley Kubrick)
An American Werewolf In London (1981, dir. John Landis)
Carrie (1976, dir. Brian DePalma)
Dames (1934, dir. Ray Enright & Busby Berkeley)
Don’t Look Now (1973, dir. Nicolas Roeg)
Duck Soup (1933, dir. Leo McCarey)
Psycho (1960, dir. Alfred Hitchcock)
Raising Arizona (1987, dir. The Coen Brothers)
Taxi Driver (1976, dir. Martin Scorsese)
The Wild Bunch (1969, dir. Sam Peckinpah)
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PostSubject: Re: 2012 Sight & Sound Survey   Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:50 am

Armond chimes in.

Quote :
Citizen Kane or Vertigo, which is more fun?

Now that Sight & Sound’s decadal critics poll has given the #1 spot to Vertigo, toppling Citizen Kane (to #2), it confirms that film culture as we used to know it has toppled as well.

Citizen Kane held sway as the “Greatest Film Of All Time” for so long that a lot of people began to believe it (and some resent it). Orson Welles’ 1941 feature film debut had often crowned polls by the American Film Institute and others including the British Film Institute’s Sight & Sound critics poll (the world’s oldest, first established in 1952) which just announced the aberrant new results.

Kane was never my favorite, yet it was a beautiful, dynamic choice. It had been a convenient winner due to historical pedigree. Generations of film-lovers (typified by Francois Truffaut’s homage to Citizen Kane in Day for Night) agreed that Kane was “the movie that made more filmmakers want to make movies.”

But Vertigo, Alfred Hitchcock’s 1958 romantic tragedy, has inspired few filmmakers to make movies. (Try finding its visual lushness and aural extravagance among Indies!) And it’s doubtful if Vertigo roused many film critics (camp-followers of said impoverished Indies and Hollywood blockbusters) to write more insightfully about cinema than did their dismissive 1958 predecessors. Most critics remain absolutely hostile to the sumptuous influence Vertigo had on Brian DePalma’s postmodern Obsession, Body Double, Black Dahlia, Femme Fatale.

So Vertigo doesn’t herald a revolution in cinematic appreciation; rather, it represents warped consensus. Its choice merely replaces Kane to show a new era’s unoriginal taste and obsessive interest in pathology and soullessness that’s been building in certain film cliques at least since the film‘s 1996 reissue. The herd mentality rules. (A Battleship Potemkin victory might convince me that a critical renaissance was afoot.)

If the past four political years has taught us anything, it’s that polls don’t assure excellence; they merely reflect spin. Vertigo congratulates today’s pollsters’ hindsight. Sight & Sound’s editor Nick James analyzed: “The new cinephilia seems to be not so much about films that strive to be great art, such as Citizen Kane, and that use cinema‘s entire arsenal of effects to make a grand statement, but more about works that have personal meaning to the critic. Vertigo is the ultimate [millennial] critics’ film because it is a dreamlike film about people who are not sure who they are but who are busy reconstructing themselves and each other to fit a kind of cinema ideal of the ideal soul mate. In that sense it‘s a makeover film full of spellbinding moments of awful poignancy that show how foolish, tender and cruel we can be when we‘re in love.”

James inadvertently nails cinephilia’s deterioration–from idealizing cinema that spoke to and edified the general public to solipsistic criticism that coddles a nihilistic, class-based coterie. (Critics unsure of who they are? Vertigo greater than the culturally prescient Psycho? Or the numinous The Birds?)

Perhaps Vertigo’s victory frees us from traditional authoritarianism (we should learn to develop our own taste, ignoring fashion) but it ushers in another tyranny. It is the triumph of “smartness” whereas the very nature of Kane’s prodigious exercise of cinema’s potential was actually a celebration–like the 1952 Singin’ in the Rain (which also fell off Sight & Sound’s top ten list).http://cityarts.info/2012/07/12/singin%E2%80%99-reigns/ Recognizing the art of cinema as popular pleasure is frowned upon in fashionable criticism. A movie that impacts the culture like Kane always did provides a foundation for wider experience; a film that doesn’t, doesn’t.

For years, it’s been quietly accepted that Welles’ follow-up film The Magnificent Ambersons was richer, more complex than Kane (and Ambersons’ profundity makes Vertigo seem piddling). Yet Ambersons, which moves viewers utterly, never captured the top spot during film culture’s genuinely populist phase, unified toward social stability. Vertigo appeals to a fragmented culture that boasts of self-absorption (rather than Ambersons’ self-examination). Vertigo is a 21st century favorite–and perfectly titled for that.

http://cityarts.info/2012/08/03/g-o-a-t-topples/
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PostSubject: Re: 2012 Sight & Sound Survey   Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:33 am

Quote :
So Vertigo doesn’t herald a revolution in cinematic appreciation; rather, it represents warped consensus. Its choice merely replaces Kane to show a new era’s unoriginal taste and obsessive interest in pathology and soullessness that’s been building in certain film cliques at least since the film‘s 1996 reissue. The herd mentality rules. (A Battleship Potemkin victory might convince me that a critical renaissance was afoot.)

Complete bullshit.
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PostSubject: Re: 2012 Sight & Sound Survey   Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:38 am

White's most frustrating aspect as a writer is his tendency to make tangential one-line claims without any further explanation; he cites PSYCHO as being "culturally prescient," but fails to explain how it is so. Such a claim demands clarification.

White is saying some things we've already noted (i.e. VERTIGO being an essentially postmodern film), just with a heavy dose of his disgust at contemporary film culture and his perpetual rosy-eyed look at the past that goes with his cranky old man outlook. I do think White sells VERTIGO quite short, both in terms of the film's merits and in terms of the scope of its influence. As far as VERTIGO's appeal to contemporary critics, though, he's not entirely wrong, but I don't view many of the same trends with the same dismay that White does.
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PostSubject: Re: 2012 Sight & Sound Survey   Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:51 am

While I don't agree with him on its "soullessness" (if only for Benny's score alone), he is right about it being ridiculously overrated by this generation of cineastes. It's a general trend demonstrated in Spielberg, Welles, and Minnelli being toppled by Kubrick, Powell and Sirk.

"We live we die
We laugh and we cry
We know not why

Bent on a life between the lines
End on a sign of the times"


- Bryan Ferry.


Last edited by Largo's Shark on Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:54 am; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: 2012 Sight & Sound Survey   Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:53 am

Harmsway wrote:
As far as VERTIGO's appeal to contemporary critics, though, he's not entirely wrong, but I don't view many of the same trends with the same dismay that White does.

Considering the state of contemporary film criticism, I can't share your enthusiasm.
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PostSubject: Re: 2012 Sight & Sound Survey   Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:59 am

Harmsway wrote:
Michael Mann:
...
Avatar (2009, dir. James Cameron)
...

...I see.
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