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Hilly KCMG
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PostSubject: Re: Basic Code Of Conduct?   Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:15 am

Hawh, nothing shocks any more. No fear.

Hell bring j7 back and let's make it a fun house. :*e*:
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Gravity's Silhouette
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PostSubject: Re: Basic Code Of Conduct?   Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:48 am

Largo's Shark wrote:


I know it's a shock, and it might take a few days to settle in.

'Shocking' isn't the word I would use. Perhaps "exasperating" or "tiresome" is more to the point. I feel conflicted saying this because you were the one who invited me to come over and join B&B, but I no longer trust you as a moderator. I thought it was bad enough when you were editing some of JWild's posts to make them look worse, but you've also created double and triple identities (the ones you've admitted to at least) and wasted a lot of our time in the forums debating with each other whether they were real people or simply fake accounts in need of deletion, and in the process turned JWild from a piss-ant into a martyr. Moving forward, I will automatically suspect you each and every time something screwy is going on with someone's post....or an unusual account is created...or any other weird contrivance takes place in the threads. Simply put, your actions are not consistent with being a moderator.

You should step down.

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Makeshift Python
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PostSubject: Re: Basic Code Of Conduct?   Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:15 am

The most I have ever done as a mod was either merge/split threads, lock, or in rare cases edited posts that didn't have the images working (Manhunter's last post in the film thread had two images that didn't show up, so fixed it). Then banned two spambots, one of them being j7wild around the time when M didn't tell anyone about him being reinstated.

And that's about it. No foul play from me, so I hope as a moderator I haven't lost anyone's confidence. I regard Sharky's stuff as amusing at best, but I can understand those like Gravity might not see it as something other than a waste of energy.
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Largo's Shark
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PostSubject: Re: Basic Code Of Conduct?   Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:17 am

Quote :
'Shocking' isn't the word I would use. Perhaps "exasperating" or "tiresome" is more to the point. I feel conflicted saying this because you were the one who invited me to come over and join B&B, but I no longer trust you as a moderator.

I asked for that early today here. Hopefully Laz can pick it up.

Largo's Shark wrote:
I request to be demoted from global modship. I don't have the temperament for that role, and I've probably lost all of your faith now. Get it over with.

http://bondandbeyond.forumotion.com/post?p=65713&mode=quote

All I want to say is this.

I should never have been a mod in the first place. You can't have someone with an anarchic streak in that position. I've known this for a while, but I thought I had a certain responsibility in seeing through the j7wild ordeal, seeing as I was who suspended for the first three times. I needed some kind of closure.

Why did I create the duplicate accounts? Mainly for a laugh, and play under a different persona with the baggage, but also to give BAB hope that Ambler had returned. Like animating a corpse with an electric current. A lie done with the best intentions, however reckless it ultimately was. I thought I initially could put a bit of life back in the place with with these weird characters, and I was right, but at a cost.

That said and done, this is all water under the bridge. No one's hurt, in debt, or psychologically scarred. Time move on and see how we can get Bond & Beyond back off the ground.
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Makeshift Python
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PostSubject: Re: Basic Code Of Conduct?   Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:26 am




But I concur with the last part you said. j7wild is gone. Ambler's back. Let's move on ahead and post threads dedicated to Judi Dench's tits.
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Gravity's Silhouette
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PostSubject: Re: Basic Code Of Conduct?   Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:21 am

Python wrote:



But I concur with the last part you said. j7wild is gone. Ambler's back. Let's move on ahead and post threads dedicated to Judi Dench's tits.

No, let's not. Let's have a thread where some of this stuff gets sorted out among the moderators and Administrator once and for all like it was suggested a few days/weeks ago. I don't think we can merely gloss over what has been done and "move on" until we've cleaned house. Largo's Shark has asked to be released from his position as moderator. I support that. Or else I will step down as moderator. But there's certainly two different sets of standards and expectations we have from the moderators, whereas I want uniformity and consistency. To that end, If I can not have what I want then I'm willing to step aside, because I don't want to go on moving forward from this as a moderator amongst other moderators of whom we expect, condone, and laugh at sub-standard behavior.

Basically, I want to know going forward what this site is going to be about, and whether I"m a good fit for it anymore. There are two distinct cultures at play here in the moderating groups, and there's going to be constant friction between the two until all of this gets sorted out.
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bitchcraft
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PostSubject: Re: Basic Code Of Conduct?   Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:45 am

Erica Ambler wrote:
If Dog's comments are a reference to me, I have two accounts here, Erica Ambler and Cicciolina. The latter was intended to be a read-only account so I could see what was happening in Baker St without the usual cries of 'ambler's back'. As Sharky rumbled me straight away you may as well delete it.

The other accounts that have been attributed to me aren't mine. I'm sure if you do an ISP check you'll be able to see that.

My comments were aimed at anyone who had multiple accounts. Fingers were being pointed at you, and I'm a bit stunned that Sharky is now saying it was him. I had no idea it was to be taken in jest if at the same time, j7wild was being condemned for similar things. I apologise for any offense you might have taken. GS seems to be the only other one here who seems not to be amused about the whole premise behind BondLover12.

All I can say is...j7wild was treated as a pariah for this and eventually - and basically - has been left to rot. I don't have time to waste posting another couple hundred messages pleading his case. I know you had a low opinion of him, but I used to speak with him in PM and he wasn't an idiot to me. However, I don't see a chorus of support.

I am kinda disappointed by all of this, and I'm tired of feeling that way. Perhaps you can bring back Oppers, Santa, Fae, even Retrokitty...I'm just doing the bare minimum from now on.
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PostSubject: Re: Basic Code Of Conduct?   Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:22 pm

Mrs Aural Sects wrote:
I am kinda disappointed by all of this, and I'm tired of feeling that way. Perhaps you can bring back Oppers, Santa, Fae, even Retrokitty...I'm just doing the bare minimum from now on.

The forum badly misses Oppers, Santa and Fae. If there was ever an illustration that men without women are stupid, this business was it.

I know a lot of things have been said here because people weren't in full possession of the facts, but, as Dog says, all this puts a rather different perspective on J7wild. I didn't like him, but mods interfering with his posts was unforgivable. Now who knows what he did and didn't say? Gravity is absolutely right when he says good moderators are vital in forums. Mods need to behave better than the general membership, so I'm disappointed to hear Lazenby. say no changes are necessary.

That means I can't stay, which I now know will please many of you. Fair enough, but, really, this has been a shameful business. Policing a forum is not a little boy joke. People need to think about what happened here.



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Vesper
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PostSubject: Re: Basic Code Of Conduct?   Fri Sep 14, 2012 3:07 pm

I don't think any rules should be too stringent (we don't want to be as ridiculously strict as MI6 where 'bitch' was censored but, among others, faggot, arse pirate etc were not - and I don't think outright censoring profanity does much) and I think we should make it clear that the aim of this site is to facilitate free discussion/debate. I think any code of conduct should just make it clear what kind of posts aren't acceptable (what Gravy posted earlier in the thread, I tend to agree with) so the moderators have a clear point of reference for their decisions.

I don't think we should go into the business of trying to quanitify what tastefulness is. Racism is usually self-evident as is true obscenity. I don't think something like j7wild's comment on Tony Scott warranted any action. Stuff like that can be discussed inside a thread, I think. It would be against the spirit of much of this communities character were we to put an outright ban on being a provocateur.

I think editing of posts should mostly be kept to merging or moving multiple posts or threads in the case of duplication, or providing headings etc if the thread is going to be made a sticky. Double posting should only be allowed if a reasonable amount of time has passed between posts, or to provide new information in the event of an ongoing thread about an ongoing event/issue. This should keep things a bit tidier.

Glad to see this is actually being taken up as a discussion though.
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Lazenby.
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PostSubject: Re: Basic Code Of Conduct?   Fri Sep 14, 2012 8:07 pm

Gravity wrote:
Basically, I want to know going forward what this site is going to be about, and whether I"m a good fit for it anymore. There are two distinct cultures at play here in the moderating

a) You're a great fit for moderating here. You contribute regularly, contribute very well to the forums, speak out when you feel things aren't right and genuinely give a sh*t about this place.

b) There is one distinct culture to moderating here from now on, which is to lead by example. I trust you 100% to do that, as you've done so perfectly well so far.
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bitchcraft
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PostSubject: Re: Basic Code Of Conduct?   Sun Sep 16, 2012 12:03 am

Lazenby. wrote:
Gravity wrote:
Basically, I want to know going forward what this site is going to be about, and whether I"m a good fit for it anymore. There are two distinct cultures at play here in the moderating

a) You're a great fit for moderating here. You contribute regularly, contribute very well to the forums, speak out when you feel things aren't right and genuinely give a sh*t about this place.

b) There is one distinct culture to moderating here from now on, which is to lead by example. I trust you 100% to do that, as you've done so perfectly well so far.

Yeah, I think GS makes a great mod on this place. And to think we used to trade punches, drop kicks and eye-gouges. Hey, I was a hothead....
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Lazenby.
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PostSubject: Re: Basic Code Of Conduct?   Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:38 am

This thread has run for sufficient time to allow everyone their say. So I'll let this thread run for one more day just in case anybody has anything else to add, then I'll compile a basic code of conduct based on the points we've agreed on in this thread.
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Largo's Shark
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PostSubject: Re: Basic Code Of Conduct?   Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:11 am

Could we have a separate thread for moderator guidelines? We haven't come up with any yet.
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Lazenby.
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PostSubject: Re: Basic Code Of Conduct?   Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:35 am

There's enough to be going on with in this thread as far as mod expectations go. Full guideline list will be written up on Tuesday, so the clock is ticking if anyone has anything else to add. I just wish this guideline list had been drawn up a week or so ago, it might have spared us quite a few arguments.
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PostSubject: Re: Basic Code Of Conduct?   Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:06 pm

Here's a few that should apply strictly to moderators:

- Censuring posts must be limited to only removing harmful links (i.e. white supremacist/racist/neo-nazi sites, virus/malware attack sites etc.) and malicious personal attacks. In these cases a moderator is advised to use the "reason for editing" text field.

- Moderators should encourage discussion and interaction between members of the community. Promoting free speech, not inhibiting it.

- Moderators should refrain from and actively discourage a lynch mob mentality (i.e. ganging up on a single member and subjecting him/her to mockery).

- Any accusations toward a particular member (especially one who can't speak for him/herself) must be accompanied by hard evidence, not speculation and hearsay.

- Planting links, images, or text into another's post is forbidden. If this is just an editing mistake (i.e. clicking "edit" instead of "quote"), then explain to the poster in question in the same thread.

- Duplicate accounts are forbidden.

That sound alright?


Last edited by Largo's Shark on Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:33 pm; edited 4 times in total
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bitchcraft
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PostSubject: Re: Basic Code Of Conduct?   Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:20 pm

Lazenby. wrote:
There's enough to be going on with in this thread as far as mod expectations go. Full guideline list will be written up on Tuesday, so the clock is ticking if anyone has anything else to add. I just wish this guideline list had been drawn up a week or so ago, it might have spared us quite a few arguments.

Perhaps you can check whether or not phpBB has an option for individual posts to be hidden from the general membership so that they're only viewable by Mods or Admin. This way, an original post can be left untouched until Admin has a chance to review it for himself to make a final call. Might be useful if only a post or two are getting volatile and there wouldn't be a need to remove the entire thread to the archive.

If not, if any thread is edited, it should clearly state why. On more than one occasion, j7wild insisted the post on display wasn't the one he made and this was made evident when some idiot with Mod privilege added to his thread and made it look like he was calling himself a c**t. It would appear the only c**t was that Moderator because all you did was set this whole process rolling.



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Lazenby.
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PostSubject: Re: Basic Code Of Conduct?   Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:42 pm

Both the posts above are fine, although hiding individual posts may be difficult, though there'd always screenshots as an option for preservation.

There'll be details of potential punishments as well, just so everyone, myself included, knows where they stand.
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PostSubject: Re: Basic Code Of Conduct?   Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:15 pm

Erica Ambler wrote:
Mrs Aural Sects wrote:
I am kinda disappointed by all of this, and I'm tired of feeling that way. Perhaps you can bring back Oppers, Santa, Fae, even Retrokitty...I'm just doing the bare minimum from now on.

The forum badly misses Oppers, Santa and Fae. If there was ever an illustration that men without women are stupid, this business was it.
Awwwww, I feel loved.
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PostSubject: Re: Basic Code Of Conduct?   Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:16 pm

I wish there a few more dos and rather than don'ts, though as Plato said, it's easier to define what justice is than what it isn't. Laz, you can fire away later today.
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PostSubject: Re: Basic Code Of Conduct?   Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:57 pm

Quote :
It is forbidden to intentionally offend another member of these forums in any way, shape or form.

Nearly all the current moderating team have done this.

Quote :
Name-calling with the intent to offend another member will not be tolerated. Veiling an insult, for example "Only an idiot would hold such an opinion", will also not be tolerated.

Nearly all the current moderating team have done this.

Quote :
Racial generalisations, for example "All Muslims are bombers", will not be tolerated.
Muslims are not a race.

Quote :
Deliberately causing offence to (or deliberately insulting) another member of these forums will, if deemed worthy of punishment, result in your suspension from these forums for a period ranging from one to twelve weeks.

Nearly all the current moderating team have done this.

Quote :
It is forbidden to make unfounded accusations towards other members of these forums, and/or to create, promote or be party to "lynch mob" behaviour towards a forum member.

Nearly all the current moderating team have done this.

Quote :
It is forbidden for moderators or administrators to alter, adjust or amend the posts of others without clear justification.

Many of the current moderating team have done this.

Quote :
It is expressly forbidden for moderators or administrators to insert pictures, GIFs, any variation thereof or any other unnecessary content into the posts of others.

Many of the current moderating team have done this.

Quote :
It is forbidden for users of these forums to … question or compromise the integrity, suitability or behaviour of moderators or administrators on these forums.

All animals are equal but some are more equal than others.

Enjoy your police state.





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Lazenby.
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PostSubject: Re: Basic Code Of Conduct?   Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:14 pm

See. Can't win. This is the very "police state" you encouraged last week, and it's also based on what people here stated/suggested as rules/guidelines in this thread.


Last edited by Lazenby. on Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:40 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Basic Code Of Conduct?   Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:24 pm

You're proposing to punish members for committing offences which you and most of the moderators have got away with. Repeatedly.

How can you expect to be respected or taken seriously?
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Largo's Shark
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PostSubject: Re: Basic Code Of Conduct?   Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:53 pm

Lazenby. wrote:
See. Can't win. This is the very "police state" you encouraged last week, and it's also based on what people here stated/suggested as rules/guidelines in this thread.

This one is a complete distortion by you of what Tiff suggested earlier in the thread, fuelled by Ambler and myself's recent criticism of the moderating team.

Lazenby. wrote:
It is forbidden for users of these forums to insult, undermine, attempt to undermine, create or attempt to create division and/or mistrust towards or to question or compromise the integrity, suitability or behaviour of moderators or administrators on these forums.

tiffanywint wrote:
3.For the sake of order in the universe, Mods must not allow their authority to be challenged. This is simply addressing reality. The easist way to get fired in the workplace is to challenge the boss' authority. You can argue with the boss, but you can't pretend he/she isn't the boss. The boss is right even when they are "wrong", because it is their job to make decisions. You can argue with a hockey ref over a call, but as soon as you call him an asshole, the arms goes up, and you are headed to an early shower. Any aggressive insulting of mods should be considered inappropriate content and dealt with decisively by any mod that happens to notice the conduct. Otherwise mods can't do their job.

Here's a corrected version:

Quote :
It is forbidden for users of these forums to insult the moderators or administrators on these forums.

---

Quote :
Racial generalisations, for example "All Muslims are bombers", will not be tolerated.

Should be:

Quote :
Offensive racial or religious generalisations, for example "All Muslims are bombers", will not be tolerated.

Erica Ambler wrote:
Quote :
It is forbidden for moderators or administrators to alter, adjust or amend the posts of others without clear justification.

Many of the current moderating team have done this.

Erica Ambler wrote:
Quote :
It is expressly forbidden for moderators or administrators to insert pictures, GIFs, any variation thereof or any other unnecessary content into the posts of others.

Many of the current moderating team have done this.

No they haven't. Me and Brandon resigned, as have local mods like CJB and Jack Wade. None of the current 8 global mods have done this.


Last edited by Largo's Shark on Wed Sep 19, 2012 12:05 am; edited 2 times in total
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Lazenby.
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PostSubject: Re: Basic Code Of Conduct?   Wed Sep 19, 2012 12:02 am

Ambler,

Of course some of the mods were guilty of things listed, that's the whole point of this, to ensure that in the future everybody knows which lines can
and can't be crossed. Before "Modgate" happened, there were no set rules, which is why debate broke out over punishment. You were the one complaining and demanding mass punishment, while I was the one settling for "slapped wrists" and just wanting to move on. Is that me encouraging "police state" behaviour? Or could it (heaven forbid) be you?

Yours sincerely,

Det. Sgt. Lazenby.
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PostSubject: Re: Basic Code Of Conduct?   Wed Sep 19, 2012 12:17 am

I think that moderators and admin should be accountable for their actions, which they are in any reasonable forum. Accountability to the members is the exact opposite of a police state, as you well know. You have responded by comparing my posts and behavioural record here to J7wilds. A complete and total smear. To compound that, you awarded yourself a 'get out of jail' free card:

Quote :
It is forbidden for users of these forums to … question ... the integrity, suitability or behaviour of moderators or administrators on these forums.

I wish I could say I'm surprised but your 'my friends right or wrong' attitude has caused more division than the forum has ever seen before. Great leadership skills there, Laz.

Detective Sergeant? I think you're selling yourself short. How about Supreme Commander for Life? laugh

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