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 The ALIEN Series / Prometheus (2012)

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PostSubject: Re: The ALIEN Series / Prometheus (2012)   Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:22 am

Jack Wade wrote:
The characters in Prometheus are morons. I'm getting a bit tired of all the movies these days where that seems to be the case.

Yeah. Not only does it downgrade a film, but it also insults the audience.

Studios must assume that 75% of audiences can't put 2 and 2 together.
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PostSubject: Re: The ALIEN Series / Prometheus (2012)   Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:29 am

One of my favourite images in the film, and easily the most "Geiger-esque" design - recalling the skull train in DIUNE and the bare xenomorph skull. Also reminds me of one of John Martin's apocalyptic tableaux.



Love the music at this point too.
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PostSubject: Re: The ALIEN Series / Prometheus (2012)   Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:41 am

The jury is still out with me on this one. There is definitely much about this movie that sucks or was uninspired, however I can't deny that it sucked me right in and that behind everything that you can say sucks about the film is a visionary and talented filmmaker toying, often effectively with many very universal and deep questions. I haven't been able to get this movie out of my head since I saw it, something alone ranks it above about 80% of what is out there. I won't go so far as to call it a classic or a masterpiece or anything, but my opinion of it is increasing with reflection.

Prometheus is a movie about unrequited spiritual yearning, and the resulting anger, darkness and frustration, and concomitant inner rebellion against God that often ensues when what is sought is not found, making the universe feel like cold, dark, hurtful and distant place. To me the most revealing aspect of this movie's psychology is found with the fact that the main character was engaging in her spiritual quest externally, or in hopping from planet to planet. I find this surprising because in all the mystical teachings and writings I am familiar with God is supposed to be sought within one's own consciousness. Thus Prometheus appears to me to be a documentation of the spiritual frustration of one who has searching in the wrong place...
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PostSubject: Re: The ALIEN Series / Prometheus (2012)   Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:43 am

Jack Wade wrote:
I'm getting a bit tired of all the movies these days where that seems to be the case.

That is the reason why I hate all the Nolan's Batman movies.

:cheers:
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PostSubject: Re: The ALIEN Series / Prometheus (2012)   Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:34 pm

Having seen it a second time (this time in IMAX) and mulling over it for a while, this is my review and opinion about PROMETHEUS.

I loved it. PROMETHEUS held up very well upon a second viewing and I'd recommend it to anyone who wants a visual feast with some backing to it. Technically, PROMETHEUS is very well done, with 3D that compliments the action and one of the best audio mixes I've heard in the past few years. Like any Scott movie, the technical aspect is the highlight of the show, as are the themes he explores. The acting is certainly passable, with Fassbender giving his best work.

Yes, the characters act like dumb s***s. Plenty of us do when the pressure is on. Humans are, by nature, irrational and illogical.

PROMETHEUS won't gain BLADE RUNNER status in 10 years or so, but it will come pretty damn close.
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PostSubject: Re: The ALIEN Series / Prometheus (2012)   Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:40 pm

Tubes wrote:
Yes, the characters act like dumb s***s. Plenty of us do when the pressure is on. Humans are, by nature, irrational and illogical.

These aren't supposed to be "us." They're meant to be scientists are the top of their game. The underpaid union workers on the Nostromo functioned 100% better under pressure this bunch of retards. The stiff performances (Logan Marshall Green, Ralph Spall, Sean Harris, the pilots etc.) and Lucasian dialogue don't help either.
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PostSubject: Re: The ALIEN Series / Prometheus (2012)   Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:59 pm

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PostSubject: Re: The ALIEN Series / Prometheus (2012)   Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:16 pm

Tubes wrote:
PROMETHEUS won't gain BLADE RUNNER status in 10 years or so, but it will come pretty damn close.
I've been wondering about this, and I just don't know if that will be the case.

I can see it happening, but even in 10 years time, Prometheus will still suffer from a screenplay that tries to be way, way too coy. I think a lot of its legacy depends on what the sequels do.

Largo's Shark wrote:
http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=prometheus_nutshell
:cheers:

Good stuff.
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PostSubject: Re: The ALIEN Series / Prometheus (2012)   Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:38 pm

Largo's Shark wrote:
One of my favourite images in the film, and easily the most "Geiger-esque" design - recalling the skull train in DIUNE and the bare xenomorph skull. Also reminds me of one of John Martin's apocalyptic tableaux.



Love the music at this point too.
It's a great little moment.
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PostSubject: Re: The ALIEN Series / Prometheus (2012)   Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:36 pm

Finally saw it. I liked it plenty, but I didn't love it and I can't see it holding up as well as ALIEN and BLADE RUNNER, but overall I enjoyed it as a nice rare R rated sci-fi summer flick. Hopefully things work out enough for a second part to be made, I'd like to see how they tie it up. I know it was always meant to be a two-parter (both being released within the same year), but I think Scott should have just slimmed it down to one big film instead of taking his chances with doing one flick first before moving onto the next.

Maybe the second part might compliment it better in retrospect, otherwise it'll look like an incomplete project.


My ranking:

ALIEN
ALIEN 3
ALIENS
PROMETHEUS
ALIEN: RESURRECTION
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PostSubject: Re: The ALIEN Series / Prometheus (2012)   Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:45 pm

Drax wrote:
The jury is still out with me on this one. There is definitely much about this movie that sucks or was uninspired, however I can't deny that it sucked me right in and that behind everything that you can say sucks about the film is a visionary and talented filmmaker toying, often effectively with many very universal and deep questions. I haven't been able to get this movie out of my head since I saw it, something alone ranks it above about 80% of what is out there. I won't go so far as to call it a classic or a masterpiece or anything, but my opinion of it is increasing with reflection.

Prometheus is a movie about unrequited spiritual yearning, and the resulting anger, darkness and frustration, and concomitant inner rebellion against God that often ensues when what is sought is not found, making the universe feel like cold, dark, hurtful and distant place. To me the most revealing aspect of this movie's psychology is found with the fact that the main character was engaging in her spiritual quest externally, or in hopping from planet to planet. I find this surprising because in all the mystical teachings and writings I am familiar with God is supposed to be sought within one's own consciousness. Thus Prometheus appears to me to be a documentation of the spiritual frustration of one who has searching in the wrong place...

Even something as simple-minded as TREK 5 addresses that issue, when Kirk. after surviving the trip to the center of the galaxy on somebody else's search for paradise/heaven, says God is in here - the human heart.
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PostSubject: Re: The ALIEN Series / Prometheus (2012)   Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:57 pm

I enjoyed the film. I'd give it 5 stars, but the oddball cast of rather rash and impetuous characters detracts, but as we'll see, the nature of the humans, might very much be by design, to help drive home the broader themes. The film's emphasis it seems, is rather on the larger story and themes. There is no Taylor from Apes here that we can hitch our wagon too. Not even really a Ripley-worthy character, but otherwise it's a pretty well crafted-and-designed film, and with decent "Real 3d." making the extra cash layout less painful.

Upon first viewing, its quite apparent the film is dripping in symbolism, as it must be, considering who created it;Ridley Scott and one of the two guiding forces of Lost (which was rife with religious imagery and themes),Damon Lindelof.

To that end, I sought out answers to the mystery of the many motifs, religious and otherwise, that clearly permeate the film, even if their meanings are not readily clear, and stumbled across this very well developed thesis,( which is also posted a couple pages back) which is generating much internet discussion. The author, Cavalorn, has painstakingly broken down the film's prevailing themes and seems to have sussed things out rather well.

Of note, he concludes that "Prometheus is fundamentally about the clash between acceptance of death as a condition of creating/sustaining life versus clinging on to life at the expense of others. The repeated, insistent use of motifs and themes in the film bears this out."

The "Gods" or engineers aren't actually evil. In their mind, man is beyond redemption.

And he has this to say on the black slime (parallels with the Green Slime? :shock: Just kidding, then again .....👅 ) suggesting humanity "infected the Engineers' life-creating fluid with its own tainted selfish nature, creating monsters. And now, after so long, here humanity is, presumptuously accepting a long-overdue invitation, and even reawakening (and corrupting all over again) the life fluid."

In otherwords our depraved nature, our corruption of the life-fluid, was responsible for the creation of the "Alien" that we met in the first film. Cavalorn does tie in the Jesus angle too. You know its there. It's not a coincidence that the dead engineers they find are rougly 2000 years old. He explains in his essay how the crucifixion of Jesus ties in with the engineers returning to their base only to be killed by the black slime. ( again parallels with the Green Slime, although I'm not sure Scott intended the connection with the 1968 space classic 👅 )


I do think this film warrants a second viewing. It does appear to have been rather well thought out.

If a sequel is made, Scott and Lindelof have suggested that the next film will continue with Shaw's continued search for the engineers. In this sense ,Prometheous, while existing in the Alien universe, is very much it's own story, more concerned with humanity's quest for understanding and resolution of the Engineers purpose. Going forward, sequels can go way off on this tangent and barely touch the existing Alien mythology, which is really only tangential to the bigger theme of our relation to the engineers. Deep.




Link to Cavalorn dissertation: Prometheus Unbound: What The Movie Was Actually About

http://cavalorn.livejournal.com/584135.html
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PostSubject: Re: The ALIEN Series / Prometheus (2012)   Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:09 pm

Just saw it.

There was a lot I liked, and a lot I didn't like. I hate the entire Ancient Aliens/Erik von Danniken idea on principle so the film had to work uphill for that going in, but I actually liked the way it was pulled off. It said to me, "God exists, and He hates you".

The movie's biggest problem, for me, is that it feels like two movies joined together -- Ridley Scott's Chariots of the Gods sci-fi religion piece and Fox Studio's Alien prequel, and the seams where those two ideas join are very weak in the film, in my opinion.

I wanted to see more of the David/Weyland/Vickers dynamic. That was really interesting to me, and it disappointed me when the film wrote Vickers off as "evil corporate bitch" and killed her, when she doesn't even do anything all that evil. The only remotely "bad" thing she does is she would rather get back to Earth alive than sacrifice everyone's life to stop the Engineers. She's very strong willed and the dynamic that she wants control of the company she has a more practical vision of than the dinosaur visionary who created it is an intriguing one that is no only underexplored but actually weakened by the pointless "she's his daughter" reveal that never amounts to anything. I'm at least glad that Weyland was actually in the film after the initial hologram fake-out, because Guy Pierce as Weyland in the TED Talk video was what got me excited about the movie. Unforunately we never see Guy Pierce except under a mountain of make-up which makes me wonder -- why hire him? Why not get an actual old actor?

Is it weird that the three characters I liked the most were the ones the movie tried to paint as villains?

I didn't like that the movie didn't tell a complete story. Frankly I don't think "Shaw and David's head fly off to find the Engineers" interesting enough to pin a whole other movie on. They should've lengthened the movie by a half-hour and done that in this one.

I didn't really like the ending that much. I would've had David's plan to freeze Shaw WORK, and taken her out of the movie at that point, because basically she does nothing in the plot from that point on anyway until she gets in the ship and flies away. So she's frozen. Everything plays out the same after that, Idris Elba crashes the ships to stop the Engineers, but I would've had Vickers get away successfully in her lifeboat with frozen Shaw on board. The implication being that Vickers then carries the knowledge of these events back to Earth and steers the Company towards its "accquire this biotech for weapons at all costs" mentality.

That's kind've the big failure of PROMETHEUS as an ALIEN prequel is it kills off anyone who could come back and tell this story to the Company, when the big implication in the original ALIEN that would require a prequel (aside from the mystery of the Space Jockey) is that the Company clearly knew about the Alien already and was surreptiously looking for it.

That being said, I DO like that the movie doesn't explain everything. It keeps the Engineers, their motives, their technologies, and how all the Almost-But-Not-Quite-Xenomorph beasties relate and work a mystery still and I like that, because that way the mysteries in the original ALIEN film aren't all wrecked by some prequel need to tie up every last element like in the Star Wars prequels. I like the symbolism and the imagery and the mystery. It's well made in that regard.

It's a great looking film with a great cast and basically I think it just has too many good ideas in it and not enough time to adequately explore them all.

I like PROMETHEUS for what it is, but rather than a PROMETHEUS sequel I want another prequel. I want a movie about Peter Weyland, the creation of David, his relationship with Vickers. There's something in there, a thread about what causes a great visionary to lose control of his company to coldhearted pragmatists who want only money, like Ford and Disney, that interests me and would be cool in a sci-fi future setting.

As cool and exciting as PROMETHEUS was, it is the cinematic equivalent of someone doing a 2001: A SPACE ODYSSEY and ALIEN mash-up on Youtube.

It's funny that for all Scott's hatred of them, PROMETHEUS also shares a lot of ideas and plot beats with ALIEN VS PREDATOR.
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PostSubject: Re: The ALIEN Series / Prometheus (2012)   Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:13 pm

Fairbairn-Sykes wrote:
Unforunately we never see Guy Pierce except under a mountain of make-up which makes me wonder -- why hire him? Why not get an actual old actor?
I seem to recall reading somewhere that Scott had wanted to work with Pearce for a while. If true, then maybe that had something to do with it. Or Pearce could have auditioned for a role like David - which was earmarked for Fassbender very early on - but Scott liked him and offered him the Weyland role.

Fairbairn-Sykes wrote:
That being said, I DO like that the movie doesn't explain everything. It keeps the Engineers, their motives, their technologies, and how all the Almost-But-Not-Quite-Xenomorph beasties relate and work a mystery still and I like that
I think it was Stanislaw Lem whose major theme in science fiction was the idea that if ever humanity were to encounter alien life, then it would be so alien that it would be beyond our comprehension. I think it was Solaris that featured a sentient ocean. That's at odds with the theory that we evolved the way we did because our bodies are best-suited to our planet, and because the conditions needed to sustain life are so exact, any planet that can support life is going to be very similar to ours, so alien life will likely evolve into a similar body shape.

I think that's something a PROMETHEUS sequel could work with.
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PostSubject: Re: The ALIEN Series / Prometheus (2012)   Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:17 am

It seemed to me that the opening sequence where the Engineer dies or kills himself or whatevers on Earth and then falls into the sea, spreading his genetic material was the movie trying to have its cake and eat it too with the whole evolution vs. creation question.
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PostSubject: Re: The ALIEN Series / Prometheus (2012)   Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:59 am

I think this is the crux of the film, again from Cavalorn.

"From the Engineers' perspective, so long as humans retained that notion of self-sacrifice as central, we weren't entirely beyond redemption. But we went and screwed it all up, and the film hints at when, if not why: the Engineers at the base died two thousand years ago. That suggests that the event that turned them against us and led to the huge piles of dead Engineers lying about was one and the same event. We did something very, very bad, and somehow the consequences of that dreadful act accompanied the Engineers back to LV-223 and massacred them."

===

Here is link to secret viral Weyland video, which is revealed in the final end credits (if one sat through the credits) http://www.whatis101112.com/

From Reelztvaboutmovies link
"The site opens with the logo of Weyland Corp., the financier of the spaceship Prometheus' journey to discover the origin of life on Earth. Shortly after the logo fades out, the screen fills with a book, the cover of which bears a quote from German philospher Friedrich Nietzsche's novel Thus Spoke Zarathustra: A Book for All and None: "What is great in man is that he is a bridge and not an end." The site also includes a new viral video featuring the still-youthful Peter Weyland (Guy Pearce) psyching himself up to give the TED speech we saw back in February, the video that effectively launched the viral campaign for the movie. "

Weyland Industries corporate timeline is here http://www.weylandindustries.com/

All you want to know about Weyland Industries and it's history. You can apply for a job too. Never mind no-one came back from the Prometheus Mission, at least not that we know about. Shaw and David are still out there.
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PostSubject: Re: The ALIEN Series / Prometheus (2012)   Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:34 am

For the record:

1) Aliens/Alien (Masterpieces of two different genres, though I feel the urge to watch Aliens more often).
--Quality Gap--
2) Prometheus
--More substantial quality gap--
3) Alien^3
--Catastrophic quality gap--
4) Alien Resurrection

I haven't seen the AvP movies, and likely never will...
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PostSubject: Re: The ALIEN Series / Prometheus (2012)   Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:18 pm

It's almost comical how many plot elements PROMETHEUS shares with the first AVP movie.

It seems "Chariots of the Gods" is the only well anyone can think to reach to if they want to try and make their sci-fi movie seem "important".
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PostSubject: Re: The ALIEN Series / Prometheus (2012)   Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:52 pm

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PostSubject: Re: The ALIEN Series / Prometheus (2012)   Thu Jun 14, 2012 4:01 pm



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PostSubject: Re: The ALIEN Series / Prometheus (2012)   Thu Jun 14, 2012 4:12 pm

This is funny. Cleolinda mocks the entire film, from start to finish in her latest m15m (movie in 15 minutes, I guess).

Excerpt:

"Somewhere in Time and Space

[Shaw staggers around druggedly through the corridors of the Prometheus for several minutes in search of help, and when she finally reaches the lab, she discovers David... washing Ancient Not-Ghost Weyland's feet? I don't even have the brain cells left to figure out if that's a religious metaphor.]

SHAW: ISN'T ANYONE GOING TO ASK WHY I'M IN MY UNDERBANDAGES AND COVERED IN BLOOD?

WEYLAND: Dr. Shaw! How lovely to see you! I will deign to inquire after your health after your Engineers have made me eternally young, just like you said they would.

SHAW: I never actually said--

WEYLAND: YES YOU DID, OR I WOULD NOT HAVE SPENT A TRILLION DOLLARS TO COME OUT HERE AND DIE ON THIS HELLISH ROCK

SHAW: But we were wrong about the Engineers! So wrong! Previously undiscovered levels of wrong!

WEYLAND: Now, now, you don't know that. You only know that your research team was too stupid to live. Let's go talk to the sleeping Engineer that David found. You might even find some deleted scenes that would explain everything in one of those urns."

laugh


Link > http://m15m.livejournal.com/23209.html
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PostSubject: Re: The ALIEN Series / Prometheus (2012)   Thu Jun 14, 2012 4:24 pm



Shaw, doing her best Domenic Greene impression.

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PostSubject: Re: The ALIEN Series / Prometheus (2012)   Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:03 pm

Well written review of Alien^3 that sums up exactly what I don't like about it. It's a great missed opportunity that Fincher wasn't able to totally do his own thing on that film.

http://www.nymoviereviews.com/?page_id=3029
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PostSubject: Re: The ALIEN Series / Prometheus (2012)   Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:05 pm

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PostSubject: Re: The ALIEN Series / Prometheus (2012)   Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:29 pm

Cavalorn's take on the scene in question above ^ laugh

"Meredith Vickers, of course, has no interest in self-sacrifice. Like her father, she wants to keep herself alive, and so she ejects and lands on the planet's surface. With the surviving cast now down to Vickers and Shaw, we witness Vickers's rather silly death as the Engineer ship rolls over and crushes her, due to a sudden inability on her part to run sideways. Perhaps that's the point; perhaps the film is saying her view is blinkered, and ultimately that kills her. But I doubt it. Sometimes a daft death is just a daft death."
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