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 The ALIEN Series / Prometheus (2012)

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Prisoner Monkeys
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PostSubject: Re: The ALIEN Series / Prometheus (2012)   Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:38 pm

One can only assume that Vickers panicked and ran for it without any real thought as to what she was doing. Or that she was running towards something that would either a) offer her shelter or b) get her high enough so that when the ship ran into it, it would stop the ship from rolling.

And at the same time, the Engineer ship wasn't just going to keep rolling forever. Eventually, it would have tipped over to one side, and that would have killed Vickers just as much as if it had rolled over her.
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PostSubject: Re: The ALIEN Series / Prometheus (2012)   Fri Jun 15, 2012 5:12 am

I would've much preferred Vickers living. It just makes no sense that the film kills her. Basically because she wasn't willing to die, she deserves to die?

That's some fucked up morality.
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PostSubject: Re: The ALIEN Series / Prometheus (2012)   Fri Jun 15, 2012 5:14 am

A friend suggested that in a post-credits scene, Vickers should have been revealed to have survived her apparent death, and stumbles into the lifeboat hoping to live, only to be eaten by the proto-xeno. laugh
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PostSubject: Re: The ALIEN Series / Prometheus (2012)   Fri Jun 15, 2012 5:28 am

laugh

If I go see it a second time, I'm going to belly laugh at it throughout the entire film. So much of it is unintentionally hilarious.
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PostSubject: Re: The ALIEN Series / Prometheus (2012)   Fri Jun 15, 2012 5:35 am

It's basically Ridley Scott direction fighting a Damon Lindelof script.

To steal a tagline, whoever wins, we lose.
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PostSubject: Re: The ALIEN Series / Prometheus (2012)   Fri Jun 15, 2012 5:47 am

Largo's Shark wrote:
laugh

If I go see it a second time, I'm going to belly laugh at it throughout the entire film. So much of it is unintentionally hilarious.

IN that case, I feel sorry for those in the cinema near you seeing it for the first time.
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PostSubject: Re: The ALIEN Series / Prometheus (2012)   Fri Jun 15, 2012 5:50 am

Blunt Instrument wrote:
Largo's Shark wrote:
laugh

If I go see it a second time, I'm going to belly laugh at it throughout the entire film. So much of it is unintentionally hilarious.

IN that case, I feel sorry for those in the cinema near you seeing it for the first time.

So do I.
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PostSubject: Re: The ALIEN Series / Prometheus (2012)   Fri Jun 15, 2012 6:59 am

Fairbairn-Sykes wrote:
I would've much preferred Vickers living. It just makes no sense that the film kills her. Basically because she wasn't willing to die, she deserves to die?

That's some fucked up morality.
It also makes no sense that she didn't try to run out of the way of the ship.
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PostSubject: Re: The ALIEN Series / Prometheus (2012)   Fri Jun 15, 2012 7:05 am

She's pretty much the smartest person in the cast until that moment.

Seriously, when she flamed the infected asshole instead of letting him on the ship, I wanted to cheer. FINALLY! Someone who wasn't an idiot in an Alien movie, and to top it off, it's the Company woman! And yet she's the bad guy because she says "how about we just fly back to Earth instead of fucking around with this stuff?" I'm sorry, but again, smartest person in the cast.

And then the movie kills her. For no good reason.
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PostSubject: Re: The ALIEN Series / Prometheus (2012)   Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:35 pm

Drax wrote:
Well written review of Alien^3 that sums up exactly what I don't like about it. It's a great missed opportunity that Fincher wasn't able to totally do his own thing on that film.

http://www.nymoviereviews.com/?page_id=3029

I disagree with a lot of that, especially that notion that Ripley never should have ever had an alien inside her. Why not? I thought it was a great way to end her story and made a great premise for the flick (I assume it was inside her much longer because it was a queen). I'm not broken up about losing Newt and Hicks, never understood why they had fans. I like the miserable tone the film was going for building up to Ripley's triumphant end.
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PostSubject: Re: The ALIEN Series / Prometheus (2012)   Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:06 pm

Yeah it seems so many people immediately dismiss Alien 3 because they killed off Hicks and Newt.

I don't get that. Did people want a whole entire movie of the Nuclear Ripley Family fighting off aliens and having to rescue the stupid girl again and again?? Hicks is dull and one-dimensional and Newt is annoying. I thought it was entirely appropriate that the die at the start -- it feels in keeping with the general "screw Ripley" tone of the franchise. And it totally makes sense that she finally have an alien in her, it feels right for that point in the franchise and leads to a great finale.

The one complaint about Alien 3 from fans of Aliens that I understand is that it's not set on Earth. I get that complaint, especially when it seemed like that's what the teaser marketing was leading to. And actually doing an Alien movie on Earth with a full invasion makes sense as the next step in the storyline. It's sort've annoying that it's not what Alien Resurrection is. To this day there hasn't been an Alien movie set on Earth, which is sort've bizarre.

That being said, I like the quieter tone of Alien 3, bringing things back to a single xenomorph in a small location like the original film. I would rather watch Alien 3 (extended) over Aliens any day.
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PostSubject: Re: The ALIEN Series / Prometheus (2012)   Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:30 pm

I can understand not setting an ALIEN film on Earth, it would be very difficult to make a suspense film out of that. The small colony and prison planet are light years away, they're pretty much on their own either overwhelmed by the alien numbers or they have no proper weapons to hunt down a single alien. On Earth? Make a phone call, send an endless amount of troops to kill them all or take Ripley's suggestion of nuking the entire site, just to be sure.
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PostSubject: Re: The ALIEN Series / Prometheus (2012)   Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:54 pm

I liked Hicks a lot and was sad to see him go. Newt I'm more ambivalent about but it's more the obvious slap in the face of the storyline developed of the first two movies. At least Cameron, say whatever else you will about the film, had the courtesy not to willfully shit on any aspect of the previous movie. In any case it baffles me the lack of respect Aliens gets around here-- the movie is a stone cold masterpiece, if for no other reason than in its peerless manipulation of its audience through controlled stages of escalating tension. When I think of the effect Aliens had on my nerves on first viewing, it is in a class on its own. In terms of characters and narrative structure, Cameron sticks to the basics, but he does it so masterfully that it doesn't matter. Alien^3 is an utter mess by comparison. It's the "Casino Royale 1967" of the Alien franchise, a brainchild of many different people with no clear idea or vision tying the whole thing together. I appreciate the visual atmosphere that Fincher created, but that is enough to salvage this dreary aimless film. I can't even sit through it. It's the franchise's major tragedy that Fincher wasn't given the reign to develop and execute his own vision with this movie.

Fairbairn-Sykes wrote:
Yeah it seems so many people immediately dismiss Alien 3 because they killed off Hicks and Newt.

I don't get that. Did people want a whole entire movie of the Nuclear Ripley Family fighting off aliens and having to rescue the stupid girl again and again?? Hicks is dull and one-dimensional and Newt is annoying. I thought it was entirely appropriate that the die at the start -- it feels in keeping with the general "screw Ripley" tone of the franchise. And it totally makes sense that she finally have an alien in her, it feels right for that point in the franchise and leads to a great finale.

The one complaint about Alien 3 from fans of Aliens that I understand is that it's not set on Earth. I get that complaint, especially when it seemed like that's what the teaser marketing was leading to. And actually doing an Alien movie on Earth with a full invasion makes sense as the next step in the storyline. It's sort've annoying that it's not what Alien Resurrection is. To this day there hasn't been an Alien movie set on Earth, which is sort've bizarre.

That being said, I like the quieter tone of Alien 3, bringing things back to a single xenomorph in a small location like the original film. I would rather watch Alien 3 (extended) over Aliens any day.
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PostSubject: Re: The ALIEN Series / Prometheus (2012)   Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:00 pm

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PostSubject: Re: The ALIEN Series / Prometheus (2012)   Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:18 pm

I like ALIENS (theatrical cut), but I just find Alien 3 (extended cut) a lot more engaging for a variety of reasons. More interesting premise, better cast, cinematography, music, acting, ect. For example, I can use Ripley's men as the basis for how I view these flicks. Hicks and Clemons. Honestly, I can't complain about Hicks getting unceremoniously killed off because Ripley gets a much more interesting companion played by a much more interesting actor. He gets killed off right in the middle, which is a drag, but is again that's kinda the whole point Fincher trying to make by showing how Ripley's life has become cursed.
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PostSubject: Re: The ALIEN Series / Prometheus (2012)   Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:03 pm

Drax wrote:
I liked Hicks a lot and was sad to see him go. Newt I'm more ambivalent about but it's more the obvious slap in the face of the storyline developed of the first two movies. At least Cameron, say whatever else you will about the film, had the courtesy not to willfully shit on any aspect of the previous movie.

No, it's just a slap in the face to the second movie. Nothing about killing Hicks and Newt insults the first film. And I'd say Cameron's whole "Ripley was a mom" revelation is a pretty big shit on the first movie --- watch Scott's ALIEN and tell me that character has a young daughter waiting back home. Who the fuck signs onto a 32-month mission hauling ore with an 11-year old daughter back home? I'm so glad all of that subplot was cut from the theatrical version of ALIENS -- it's totally unnecessary and just bit of cheap Cameron style sentimentality.

Seriously, what kind of movie could you get keeping those two alive? It would essentially be a repeat of ALIENS, which is what I think most of the ALIEN 3 haters wanted -- another big action movie. They didn't get it. Is ALIEN 3 flawed? Hell yes, but it's better than following Ripley and her Man as they blow away more Aliens with machine guns while rescuing the whiny girl.

Cameron says he would have never killed Newt if he had done a sequel. So what would you do with her? If she lives, then Ripley has to live. No suspense at all. With Newt dead, it becomes a possiblity for Ripley to die, increasing tension, and Ripley's sacrifice to stop the Aliens and the Company is probably the best dramatic moment in the franchise.

The best thing about ALIEN 3 is that it isn't just a repeat of ALIENS. Which, by the way, was the best thing about ALIENS. What made that series so smart, even the fourth one, was that it was willing to change directors and change tone with each entry, so each film is different and unique to a certain extent.
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PostSubject: Re: The ALIEN Series / Prometheus (2012)   Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:09 pm

Fairbairn-Sykes wrote:
Who the fuck signs onto a 32-month mission hauling ore with an 11-year old daughter back home?

At first glance, this made sense. Then I remembered soldiers going out to serve for much longer than that with younger children waiting for them back home.
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PostSubject: Re: The ALIEN Series / Prometheus (2012)   Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:14 pm

True, but those soldiers had wives back home to take care of those children.

So are you telling me Ripley had a stay-at-home husband? If Ripley had a husband, why is she the one out in space hauling ore? Why is there no grieving over him? If there's no husband -- who leaves their 11 year old kid alone for 32 months??

What I'm mainly saying is that nothing about Weaver's performance in the original movie suggests a married woman with a daughter back home. It says independant career minded pragmatist.

And you're missing nothing when you take that subplot out of ALIENS. Everything still makes sense, including Ripley's psychology and personality. I don't think you need "she used to have a daughter" to explain why she bonds with Newt, it makes perfect sense without it. She still has maternal instincts, and shares with Newt the experience of being the last survivor of a xenomorph attack. Making Newt her replacement daughter just oversimplifies things and implies Ripley only cares about Newt as a surrogate.

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PostSubject: Re: The ALIEN Series / Prometheus (2012)   Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:27 pm

"Where's mommy?"
"She's out hauling ore in deep space, sweety."


Yeah, nothing really suggests she's a mom in the original, and the theatrical version fits much better without the subplot.
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PostSubject: Re: The ALIEN Series / Prometheus (2012)   Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:31 pm

Fairbairn-Sykes wrote:
True, but those soldiers had wives back home to take care of those children.

So are you telling me Ripley had a stay-at-home husband? If Ripley had a husband, why is she the one out in space hauling ore? Why is there no grieving over him? If there's no husband -- who leaves their 11 year old kid alone for 32 months??

What I'm mainly saying is that nothing about Weaver's performance in the original movie suggests a married woman with a daughter back home. It says independant career minded pragmatist.

And you're missing nothing when you take that subplot out of ALIENS. Everything still makes sense, including Ripley's psychology and personality. I don't think you need "she used to have a daughter" to explain why she bonds with Newt, it makes perfect sense without it. She still has maternal instincts, and shares with Newt the experience of being the last survivor of a xenomorph attack. Making Newt her replacement daughter just oversimplifies things and implies Ripley only cares about Newt as a surrogate.


It's entirely possible that Ripley had a husband/boyfriend/family to take care of her daughter. Women can still have families and be career minded; it's just a bitch to juggle both responsibilities.

It's all a moot point anyways. Ripley didn't project the personality of a mother in ALIEN and the dead daughter character note does nothing for her in ALIENS. I also dislike that scene for the unrelated reason that the space garden effects were terrible. However, the choice to accept a (presumably) high paying job that takes you away from your family for a significant amount of time isn't that illogical or uncommon.
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PostSubject: Re: The ALIEN Series / Prometheus (2012)   Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:35 pm

Okay, but since there's an entire version of the film I can watch without it, I feel free to ignore it from Alien canon. Most of the scenes added into the extended cut of ALIENS are equally dumb or foolish.

For example, showing the colonists and their discovery of the Derelict and subsequent deaths totally destroys any and all mystery/suspense in the early parts of the film, and plays the hand of Burke being an asshole way too early.

Whatever studio exec ordered those cuts was smart. A brief, shining victory before Cameron became big enough to demand four-hour versions of his crappy maudlin movies regularly. Seriously, why the hell is TRUE LIES three hours long?
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PostSubject: Re: The ALIEN Series / Prometheus (2012)   Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:40 pm

The most pointless addition I think was the sentry gun scenes. There's really no point to them and unnecessarily stretches the film. It also ruins the intelligence of these creatures, as they keep running into the line of fire over and over mindlessly until conveniently right when the bullets are almost down to zero.
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PostSubject: Re: The ALIEN Series / Prometheus (2012)   Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:56 pm

Yeah the Xenomorph over the films become like the Borg in Star Trek -- an initially unstoppable threat turned into cannon fodder over repeated appearances.
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PostSubject: Re: The ALIEN Series / Prometheus (2012)   Fri Jun 15, 2012 5:11 pm

I think cutting the scene out helps retain their intelligence somewhat, and then you have bits like when they cut the power in the complex and know how to open doors. You could argue with 3 it acts more like an animal since it came out of one (would have made more sense to cocoon its victims for the queen though). By RESURRECTION it seems like they're about as smart as household pets.
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PostSubject: Re: The ALIEN Series / Prometheus (2012)   Fri Jun 15, 2012 5:15 pm

Yeah they retain their power in the shorter version of ALIENS. And yeah the only bit of ALIEN 3 that doesn't really make sense is that the Runner is only eating the prisoners, not cocooning them. Hell, the original Alien cocooned Dallas in the deleted scenes and there wasn't even a Queen nearby! In ALIEN 3, the Queen is ready to be born!

RESURRECTION is a fun/dumb epilogue, PROMETHEUS is an intriguing/flawed prologue, but the first three films still form the core of the story for me.
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