What Do YOU Want Bond & Beyond to Be?

Santa wrote:

Tubes wrote:

I want B&B to stop being so insecure about it's identity and popularity.  

Seriously, we don't need topics talking about promotion and forum direction.  It's a fucking message board.  We don't need to take over the internet in order to survive.

That.

Yeah.

Loomis wrote:

Santa wrote:

Tubes wrote:

I want B&B to stop being so insecure about it's identity and popularity.  

Seriously, we don't need topics talking about promotion and forum direction.  It's a fucking message board.  We don't need to take over the internet in order to survive.

That.

Yeah.

Nah.

I think I've said this before. I agree with Tubes. The only thing we need is a redesign because the current layout looks cheap.

Jack Wade wrote:

I think I've said this before. I agree with Tubes. The only thing we need is a redesign because the current layout looks cheap.

Yes, we must stamp out all remnants of the down-at-heelness that will hopefully be part of the distant part of this forum come BaB-Day, 30th June 2013.

Largo's Shark wrote:

Loomis wrote:

Santa wrote:

Tubes wrote:

I want B&B to stop being so insecure about it's identity and popularity.  

Seriously, we don't need topics talking about promotion and forum direction.  It's a fucking message board.  We don't need to take over the internet in order to survive.

That.

Yeah.

Nah.

Yeah?

Loomis wrote:

Largo's Shark wrote:

Loomis wrote:

Santa wrote:

Tubes wrote:

I want B&B to stop being so insecure about it's identity and popularity.  

Seriously, we don't need topics talking about promotion and forum direction.  It's a fucking message board.  We don't need to take over the internet in order to survive.

That.

Yeah.

Nah.

Yeah?

I want you to cut it out. Just cut it out.

All of you. Stop.

Hilly wrote:

All of you. Stop.

You're like boys with toys.

Largo's Shark wrote:

Loomis wrote:

Santa wrote:

Tubes wrote:

I want B&B to stop being so insecure about it's identity and popularity.  

Seriously, we don't need topics talking about promotion and forum direction.  It's a fucking message board.  We don't need to take over the internet in order to survive.

That.

Yeah.

Nah.

I can understand practically every single point of view regarding our rebranding/makeover or whatever we want to call it. Some members here post a lot more frequently than others, some members don't really use the place to showcase in-depth reviews or articles they've written, some members just pop their heads in now and again to see how everything's going, etc. My point is that we all have differing degrees of involvement with or commitment to the forums. To some people it's an important place of social interaction, to others, it's more an occasional pitstop. That's fine. As a busy working family man, I can easily relate to those who only post here occasionally or don't make in-depth posts very often, because sometimes I'm one of those people myself. But I really WANT to be the other kind of poster, the poster who puts heart and soul into the place and contributes heavily to making sure there's always discussion and activity there so that the more "drop by" type of member doesn't one day drop by to find the forum deserted or shut down. Those who view this forum as being on some kind of a descent, here's some hard facts to back you up on that:

JUNE: Seem to have lost a highly active poster and MOD, tiffanywint, made all the more apparent by the fact that he's even chosen to post at MI6 rather than embrace the free speech he was granted here.

MAY: Lost Perilagu Khan, a very highly valued member also trusted as a MOD here, again an outspoken member who would even prefer to risk censure, suspension, warnings etc at MI6 than post freely and be a mod here.

JAN-APRIL:
Lost Gravity's Silhouette, another highly active poster/contributor and trusted MOD here.
Seem to have lost Louis Armstrong, another MOD, who may just be busy at the moment, but right now and for the last few months it's another loss.
Lost Ambler. Okay, we lose and regain Ambler every few months, but right now he's not here, thus at the moment another big loss.
Lost Lazenby, or as good as, his appearances by his own admission are fleeting. Is in favour of an overhaul though, which gives some hope.
Lost j7. Okay, most of us are happy with that, but when we observe the fact that the forum was actually more active when he was here it paints a bloody grim picture.

Haven't lost Harmsway, FourDot, HJackson, Manhunter and a few other excellent posters, but some of these and others are highly intelligent and/or really great posters who I wish were posting like clockwork around here. It's in our best interests to give great posters the incentive to post more often, which right now we're not doing, and that situation will remain the same if changes and effort aren't made.

Need I list all of the other good/great members who hardly post here anymore? Okay... Colly, Drax, SJK91, Retrokitty, MOO7RE, Santa, Willard Whyte... In fact, outside of around at best a dozen, at worst 8 or 9 loyal devotees, MOST members here don't post much anymore.

We need change. Sure, any death this forum could eventually suffer could be a very prolonged one which people may feel isn't worth worrying about right now. But too many good members have been lost, it's continuing to happen, those members aren't being replaced, thus we're looking at this forum right now as merely a place of activity for 2-3 months BI-annually whenever a Bond film comes out, but otherwise near-stagnation, frequent departures and possibly eventual ruin in the time inbetween. On top of all that, we're plugging ourselves using a brand which is catered for in probably a less witty, honest or intelligent but far more thorough and committed way by other websites/forums (and of course Facebook & Twitter). The way I see it, if we go near all-out or plain all-out as a Bond-focused site, we risk losing. If we play to our strengths as not just Bond experts, but as great and intelligent commentators on all other aspects of culture, we have a chance of not only a promising present and future but also a chance to break free from the shackles of our "MI6/CBn remnants" tag and become something way beyond those restraints, a place where we can all flourish.

M wrote:

Largo's Shark wrote:

Loomis wrote:

Santa wrote:

Tubes wrote:

I want B&B to stop being so insecure about it's identity and popularity.  

Seriously, we don't need topics talking about promotion and forum direction.  It's a fucking message board.  We don't need to take over the internet in order to survive.

That.

Yeah.

Nah.

I can understand practically every single point of view regarding our rebranding/makeover or whatever we want to call it. Some members here post a lot more frequently than others, some members don't really use the place to showcase in-depth reviews or articles they've written, some members just pop their heads in now and again to see how everything's going, etc. My point is that we all have differing degrees of involvement with or commitment to the forums. To some people it's an important place of social interaction, to others, it's more an occasional pitstop. That's fine. As a busy working family man, I can easily relate to those who only post here occasionally or don't make in-depth posts very often, because sometimes I'm one of those people myself. But I really WANT to be the other kind of poster, the poster who puts heart and soul into the place and contributes heavily to making sure there's always discussion and activity there so that the more "drop by" type of member doesn't one day drop by to find the forum deserted or shut down. Those who view this forum as being on some kind of a descent, here's some hard facts to back you up on that:

JUNE: Seem to have lost a highly active poster and MOD, tiffanywint, made all the more apparent by the fact that he's even chosen to post at MI6 rather than embrace the free speech he was granted here.

MAY: Lost Perilagu Khan, a very highly valued member also trusted as a MOD here, again an outspoken member who would even prefer to risk censure, suspension, warnings etc at MI6 than post freely and be a mod here.

JAN-APRIL:
Lost Gravity's Silhouette, another highly active poster/contributor and trusted MOD here.
Seem to have lost Louis Armstrong, another MOD, who may just be busy at the moment, but right now and for the last few months it's another loss.
Lost Ambler. Okay, we lose and regain Ambler every few months, but right now he's not here, thus at the moment another big loss.
Lost Lazenby, or as good as, his appearances by his own admission are fleeting. Is in favour of an overhaul though, which gives some hope.
Lost j7. Okay, most of us are happy with that, but when we observe the fact that the forum was actually more active when he was here it paints a bloody grim picture.

Haven't lost Harmsway, FourDot, HJackson, Manhunter and a few other excellent posters, but some of these and others are highly intelligent and/or really great posters who I wish were posting like clockwork around here. It's in our best interests to give great posters the incentive to post more often, which right now we're not doing, and that situation will remain the same if changes and effort aren't made.

Need I list all of the other good/great members who hardly post here anymore? Okay... Colly, Drax, SJK91, Retrokitty, MOO7RE, Santa, Willard Whyte... In fact, outside of around at best a dozen, at worst 8 or 9 loyal devotees, MOST members here don't post much anymore.

We need change. Sure, any death this forum could eventually suffer could be a very prolonged one which people may feel isn't worth worrying about right now. But too many good members have been lost, it's continuing to happen, those members aren't being replaced, thus we're looking at this forum right now as merely a place of activity for 2-3 months BI-annually whenever a Bond film comes out, but otherwise near-stagnation, frequent departures and possibly eventual ruin in the time inbetween. On top of all that, we're plugging ourselves using a brand which is catered for in probably a less witty, honest or intelligent but far more thorough and committed way by other websites/forums (and of course Facebook & Twitter). The way I see it, if we go near all-out or plain all-out as a Bond-focused site, we risk losing. If we play to our strengths as not just Bond experts, but as great and intelligent commentators on all other aspects of culture, we have a chance of not only a promising present and future but also a chance to break free from the shackles of our "MI6/CBn remnants" tag and become something way beyond those restraints, a place where we can all flourish.

A well-written treatise and thoughtful survey of the losses we seem to have suffered here on BaB. Although not perhaps an intelligent poster, I do like to create and specialise in in-depth written articles on James Bond. As I've said before, I try to visit here every day and at least post something of value (hopefully). I'm here for the long haul and I hope that that's more than apparent by now. I hope I figure amongst the loyal posters you mention, M. I agree that we need many members here to return and we need fresh blood too, before it's too late. That's why you have my wholehearted support for your rebranding exercise.

I would like to be here more but can't cope with the teenage angst. I don't want a name change, or a layout change and am indifferent to the banner and colours. I've never been a prolific poster but what I do, or did come here for was more intelligent conversation than I get in my own head. I rarely agreed with PK, Tiff, GS or Harmsway's points of view but I very much enjoyed the discussions all the same. Now I log in to find one omnipresent (and annoying) name against every single thread. Nonetheless I check in occasionally to see what's going on and have no doubt that one day I'll join in again.

In the meantime please, B&B, stop trying to 'find yourself' like some superannuated hippie. These things are cyclical, life will come back to the site in due course. Just do as Frankie says...

Santa wrote:

I would like to be here more but can't cope with the teenage angst. I don't want a name change, or a layout change and am indifferent to the banner and colours. I've never been a prolific poster but what I do, or did come here for was more intelligent conversation than I get in my own head. I rarely agreed with PK, Tiff, GS or Harmsway's points of view but I very much enjoyed the discussions all the same. Now I log in to find one omnipresent (and annoying) name against every single thread. Nonetheless I check in occasionally to see what's going on and have no doubt that one day I'll join in again.

In the meantime please, B&B, stop trying to 'find yourself' like some superannuated hippie. These things are cyclical, life will come back to the site in due course. Just do as Frankie says...

Pray tell which "one omnipresent (and annoying) name" you find "against every single thread", Santa?

Yours, obviously. I realise that's bitchy and I don't plan to cause aggro, but it is what it is.

Santa wrote:

Yours, obviously. I realise that's bitchy and I don't plan to cause aggro, but it is what it is.

Thank you for your honesty, sir. I did get that impression. I can leave if it's causing a problem here as I wouldn't want to alienate people. Why am I now persona non grata? Help me out here. I don't see what I've done to earn this reputation. Is it the blog promotion? I can knock that on the head (and have).

As I say, I can leave here if too many people find me annoying. I seem to have very little luck with James Bond forums these days. 

Perhaps it's for the best that I do, just before the rebranding exercise at the end of June?

Time then to stop being omnipresent...

dun dun DUNNN...

What BaB most wants is for me to fall on my sword. Done. 

There will surely be no more annoyance in your collective lives.

Off I fly. 

Goodbye.

I'll be at my blog.

Auf wiedersehen.

I have this urge to bang my head against my desk.

But I don't have a desk. *thinks*

Just when I thought things couldn't get any stranger...

I think we need to stop navel-gazing. I think we need to stop trying to turn this into community A or community B and instead play to the strengths of what we are. Trying to force the forum into becoming about discussions only certain members want to have isn't going to fix anything. Our beginnings are our common ground -- exiles from James Bond forums that we no longer wanted any part of. We're about Bond, and in a broader sense pop culture. What frustrates me is that there seems to be an element of "pining for snobbery", like we're Hyacinth Bucket.

I've always loved the community here, going back to the days of MI6 KTBEU, for the intelligent, well-meaning, and humourous discussion. I don't think the intelligence has gone away, but certainly it feels like the warmth and humour has, that sense of community. We're more like bickering neighbourhoods or squabbling spouses now, I feel, going over the same old arguments.

This being said, intelligent discussion can be had on any topic, it's defined by quality of content, not the content itself. You can have great intelligent conversation on James Bond (obviously), but you don't need to force it by trying to take on pretentious airs. I've got a degree in Film Studies, I've talked Hitchcock and Goddard and Kubrick and Renoir enough to last a lifetime. I'm sick of being talked down to for my interests.

I noticed the other day someone bemoaning that no one seems to know Hammer films, that they wish they could discuss Hammer Horror here more. Unfortunately, I haven't seen a lot of Hammer Horror, and what I do know of it are tropes: B production values, women in tight bodices, foggy moors, saturated colours, kind've campy tone. But I don't want to start judging someone's interests based on my stereotypes. It's why I don't post about Japanese monster movies here. I love that genre to death but I know it's reputation is so low that why bother bringing it up if I'm just going to be ridiculed? I get enough shit for liking Star Trek and comic books and so on. I'm a developmentally stunted naive idealistic fool with no taste and no class and no understanding of history who doesn't read enough books, apparently.

So I don't bring them up. What I should be bringing up is James Bond, because at least we're all Bond fans -- that's our common ground. But then I feel like I've had the same discussions over and over. Skyfall at least gave us something new to talk about, but we ran it into the ground fairly quick and got sort've nasty about it at the same time - especially towards newer members. I was as guilty of it as anyone. I mean, I frankly find Dragonpol's Bondologist Blog advertisement threads annoying and often very forced in their topics ("Ian Fleming's Depiction of Colour in YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE and It's Connection to Mark Rothko") -- BUT! I'll give him this: at least he's trying to have a discussion and talk about something new.

I don't think more mods is the answer, if only because not only do we already have a lot of mods but we're all fairly laissez-faire folks -- trying to crack down is only going to brew more resentment. But I do feel the issue is that we had a big drain of our friendlier members. Sure, maybe Khanners had some bigoted views, but I always felt like he was a friend, inasmuch as a screename on a computer monitor could be called a friend. And we used to have folks like Retrokitty and so on who made people feel welcome and appreciated. What we have left is a bunch of really smart folks, but largely misanthrophic smart folks. I'll count myself in that group too. I joined the MI6 forum over six years ago, and I feel like I'm still regarded as a "junior member", someone to be talked down to, not any kind of community leader. And that's fair enough, because I've never really tried to position myself as one. I had a couple of threads back at MI6 that were my own projects -- stuff about Bond's background or the Bond Bibliography and so on, things that are probably all forgotten now -- but even guys like Tux, who was one of the members who really made me felt welcome when I joined MI6, now feel like they just spin around in their own little worlds instead of reaching out.

We build little webs of interest around ourselves, occassionally ensare each other in them until we're done devouring, and sometimes bump into each other at common interest threads like "Last Movie You Watched" -- and even there, people post into the void and never respond to each other.

I don't know what solution there is, other than an effort to change the attitude. I'm as guilty of it as anyone, but I would like for the place to feel more friendly and inviting instead of like an exclusive elitist club of the finest snobs.

Very wise words there, Sykes. Expressing a lot of my thoughts but without being bitter or angry like I can often be.

I don't have anything new to add, but I'd like to see A Watcher respond to your post.

Well said, Skyes.