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 Syrian civil war - should the West arm the rebels?

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Syrian civil war - should the West arm the rebels?
Yes, kill ‘em all
11%
 11% [ 1 ]
Let Allah decide
11%
 11% [ 1 ]
No, mind our own goddamn business
78%
 78% [ 7 ]
Total Votes : 9
 

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bitchcraft
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PostSubject: Re: Syrian civil war - should the West arm the rebels?   Sun Sep 07, 2014 9:24 pm

Olaf wrote:
Largo's Shark wrote:
Terrifying situation. Where's the great philanthropist Tony Blair during all of the this?

Oh, you know, probably feeling the hand of history on his shoulder again before he intervenes with his quasi-humanitarian intervention policy and outmoded Christian Socialism.

Wondering what some of you would do in his, or Cameron's position right now. Right now, one of their countrymen is being faced with the very real threat of decapitation.

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Gravity's Silhouette
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PostSubject: Re: Syrian civil war - should the West arm the rebels?   Sun Sep 07, 2014 10:01 pm

bitchcraft wrote:
Olaf wrote:
Largo's Shark wrote:
Terrifying situation. Where's the great philanthropist Tony Blair during all of the this?

Oh, you know, probably feeling the hand of history on his shoulder again before he intervenes with his quasi-humanitarian intervention policy and outmoded Christian Socialism.

Wondering what some of you would do in his, or Cameron's position right now. Right now, one of their countrymen is being faced with the very real threat of decapitation.


There is no political solution to this. There really is no military solution to it either. These terrorist groups are like playing wack-a-mole: you may hit one with a drone strike or some special forces...you may get rid of Bin Laden or Abu Nidal....but inevitably another group just comes along and applies the lessons learned from the failure of the previous group. The Yanks and The Brits would probably wash their hands clean of the third-world shame-hole that is The Middle East if they weren't suppliers of vast oil reserves. There's no reason for anybody who wasn't born in this region to be there. It is nothing but a huge death trap for all who come. Radical Islam has ruined it.
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Erica Ambler
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PostSubject: Re: Syrian civil war - should the West arm the rebels?   Sun Sep 07, 2014 10:03 pm

There's only one certainty. Buy defence stocks now.
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Olaf
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PostSubject: Re: Syrian civil war - should the West arm the rebels?   Sun Sep 07, 2014 10:06 pm

Gravity's Silhouette wrote:
bitchcraft wrote:
Olaf wrote:
Largo's Shark wrote:
Terrifying situation. Where's the great philanthropist Tony Blair during all of the this?

Oh, you know, probably feeling the hand of history on his shoulder again before he intervenes with his quasi-humanitarian intervention policy and outmoded Christian Socialism.

Wondering what some of you would do in his, or Cameron's position right now. Right now, one of their countrymen is being faced with the very real threat of decapitation.


There is no political solution to this. There really is no military solution to it either. These terrorist groups are like playing wack-a-mole: you may hit one with a drone strike or some special forces...you may get rid of Bin Laden or Abu Nidal....but inevitably another group just comes along and applies the lessons learned from the failure of the previous group. The Yanks and The Brits would probably wash their hands clean of the third-world shame-hole that is The Middle East if they weren't suppliers of vast oil reserves. There's no reason for anybody who wasn't born in this region to be there. It is nothing but a huge death trap for all who come. Radical Islam has ruined it.

Unfortunately like Iraq it's like getting the camel out of the tar-pit all over again but something has to be done and be seen to be done also. Despite that, the Western powers have merely vacillated in their response to the threat posed by the Islamic State in Syria in Iraq where firm and resolute decision-making and action was instead what was required.
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Gravity's Silhouette
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PostSubject: Re: Syrian civil war - should the West arm the rebels?   Sun Sep 07, 2014 11:46 pm

Olaf wrote:


Unfortunately like Iraq it's like getting the camel out of the tar-pit all over again but something has to be done and be seen to be done also. Despite that, the Western powers have merely vacillated in their response to the threat posed by the Islamic State in Syria in Iraq where firm and resolute decision-making and action was instead what was required.

President Obama is in a tough, very tough, situation politically (some of which is his own making). After drawing a "red line" against Syria and then not following through with it, he's loathe to start targeting ISIS in Syria (which would help strengthen Assad). And The Republicans (most of them at least) didn't want to approve any use of force against Syria a year ago (nor did the Democrats), now a lot of them are complaining that he didn't arm "the rebels" (which I guess has turned out to be ISIS). unsure

It's a huge mess, with neither offering up anything new.
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Gravity's Silhouette
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PostSubject: Re: Syrian civil war - should the West arm the rebels?   Sun Sep 14, 2014 6:30 am

I remember back in 1992 when critics complained that the Disney film, Alladin, stereotyped Arabs as violent, in part, because of a line in the song referencing cutting of an ear:

http://entertainment.time.com/2009/12/09/top-10-disney-controversies/slide/aladdin/

Fast forward 22 years and these same "people" are cutting off heads:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2754934/ISIS-release-video-claiming-beheading-British-hostage-David-Haines.html

Once again, the blessed, peaceful religion of Islam that has been "hijacked" by a few radicals, has executed yet another foreign civilian who committed no crime and done so by one of the most sadistic, truly evil methods known to man: beheading. We're not even talking about putting a person in a stockade and letting a blade come down and instantly kill them; no,we're talking about one man coming up behind another man and ripping at his throat with a knife until he can pull the head off, broadcasting it to the entire world as propaganda. I have not seen it nor will I ever. I don't want that image in my head, and I wouldn't give these sand-people the satisfaction of knowing I'd supported their cause by viewing propaganda.

Stereotypes exist because there is an element of truth to them; otherwise people wouldn't recognize themselves as the person or group being stereotyped, spoofed, or joked about.
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PostSubject: Re: Syrian civil war - should the West arm the rebels?   Sun Sep 14, 2014 6:33 am

There is no truly peaceful religion. They all have the fundamentalists who can't live without wanting to control the lives of others. Thankfully such extremists are a rarity in this country, but every now and then we do get someone suggesting that it would be ideal to bring back "stoning people to death" because that's what the bible says.
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PostSubject: Re: Syrian civil war - should the West arm the rebels?   Wed Sep 17, 2014 6:22 pm

Erica Ambler wrote:
Erica Ambler wrote:
who is the West arming in the long run, the Syrian rebels or al-Qaeda?

Well, the long run wasn't very long at all.

If we get the leaders we deserve then the West is in big trouble.

This is what happens when people you would not trust to organize the company picnic have to take charge of life and death issues.
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PostSubject: Re: Syrian civil war - should the West arm the rebels?   Sat Sep 20, 2014 10:09 pm

The French have begun airstrikes in Iraq. I hope this is part of a considered strategy rather than François Holland seeking to distract critics of his love life. The involvement of the UAE is intriguing. (In the bombing not Holland's love life.)
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PostSubject: Re: Syrian civil war - should the West arm the rebels?   Sun Sep 21, 2014 4:58 pm

Quite interesting how the PKK are now suddenly the good guys? Funny how that works, eh?
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PostSubject: Re: Syrian civil war - should the West arm the rebels?   Sun Sep 21, 2014 5:33 pm

With Turkey a NATO member, this could all go tits up. Quite literally, as about a quarter of PKK troops are women if The Times is to be believed.
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bitchcraft
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PostSubject: Re: Syrian civil war - should the West arm the rebels?   Sun Sep 21, 2014 5:49 pm

Erica Ambler wrote:
With Turkey a NATO member,  this could all go tits up. Quite literally, as about a quarter of PKK troops are women if The Times is to be believed.

Gives new meaning to crack unit.

There has been a re-drawing of battlefield alliances as people who were once enemies have joined together.

Wonder when Kim Jong-Un will step in?
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PostSubject: Re: Syrian civil war - should the West arm the rebels?   Wed Sep 24, 2014 10:16 am

Well, the USA has put together an alliance calculated to appeal to all factions except the Soviets. I mean, Putin. Meanwhile, China is continuing its own war against fundamentalist Islam, which has become inextricably linked with independence.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/chinas-war-on-terror-becomes-all-out-attack-on-islam-in-xinjiang/2014/09/19/5c5840a4-1aa7-4bb6-bc63-69f6bfba07e9_story.html

Hard to put a good spin on the globe right now. smoking







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PostSubject: Re: Syrian civil war - should the West arm the rebels?   Wed Sep 24, 2014 2:00 pm

If my government wants to arm the rebels, that's their prerogative, and I know that nothing will change their minds. Personally, if they want to arm people...they can pass me a nice M4 for my collection. colgate
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Hilly KCMG
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PostSubject: Re: Syrian civil war - should the West arm the rebels?   Wed Sep 24, 2014 10:38 pm

Like a Tom Clancy novel on acid.

Or not.
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PostSubject: Re: Syrian civil war - should the West arm the rebels?   Thu Sep 25, 2014 8:25 am

The US should start arming the heroic mujahideen in Xinjiang.
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PostSubject: Re: Syrian civil war - should the West arm the rebels?   Thu Sep 25, 2014 9:11 am

How about the USA arms them today and goes to war with them tomorrow? I think that's current strategy and tactics.
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PostSubject: Re: Syrian civil war - should the West arm the rebels?   Thu Sep 25, 2014 9:30 am

That's why I'm backing Hillary in 2016.
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PostSubject: Re: Syrian civil war - should the West arm the rebels?   Thu Sep 25, 2014 9:54 am

CJB wrote:
That's why I'm backing Hillary in 2016.

I assume you are being sarcastic. Not sure if someone who counts Kissinger as one of her personal heroes will be conducting a more positive/long-term foreign policy.
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PostSubject: Re: Syrian civil war - should the West arm the rebels?   Fri Sep 26, 2014 5:17 pm

Well, Britain has done it again. Parliament just voted for airstrikes against Islamic State forces in Iraq. Overwhelming mandate: 524 for, 43 against.
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PostSubject: Re: Syrian civil war - should the West arm the rebels?   Fri Sep 26, 2014 10:21 pm

And so it goes.
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PostSubject: Re: Syrian civil war - should the West arm the rebels?   Mon Sep 29, 2014 4:06 am

http://www.news.com.au/national/breaking-news/clinton-a-counter-punch-to-isil-gillard/story-e6frfku9-1227073869087

Quote :
ELECTING Hillary Clinton as US president would send a powerful message to Islamic extremists that mistreating women is wrong, former prime minister Julia Gillard says.

THE former US secretary of state has not yet formally announced her candidacy for president in the 2016 elections but is thinking about it.
Ms Gillard will "loudly barrack from the sidelines" if the former first lady runs for office.

She said it would not only be important for the US but have a "huge global impact", particularly in the context of the rise of Islamic State, also known as ISIL, in Iraq and Syria.

"Of the things that are being fought over in this security situation, pivotal to them is women's rights and women's roles," Ms Gillard told AAP.

"ISIL is a philosophy that has at its core the subjugation of women.

"So to be able, in the world in which we live today with those security challenges, to see a great democracy elect a woman to lead it would be a real statement.

"(ISIL's philosophy) is anathema to everything I believe in and it's anathema to everything Hillary stands for."

Ms Gillard, who is promoting her memoir My Story, had no criticism of Prime Minister Tony Abbott's approach to tackling ISIL.

She said if there was a Labor prime minister in The Lodge they would have taken the same approach.

Bipartisanship was important when it came to national security issues and the government was blessed by having high-quality advice from its security agencies and defence force.

She said it was important all Australians worked at building a peaceful multicultural country.

Hillary 2016!
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Gravity's Silhouette
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PostSubject: Re: Syrian civil war - should the West arm the rebels?   Mon Sep 29, 2014 7:05 am

CJB wrote:
http://www.news.com.au/national/breaking-news/clinton-a-counter-punch-to-isil-gillard/story-e6frfku9-1227073869087

Quote :
ELECTING Hillary Clinton as US president would send a powerful message to Islamic extremists that mistreating women is wrong, former prime minister Julia Gillard says.

THE former US secretary of state has not yet formally announced her candidacy for president in the 2016 elections but is thinking about it.
Ms Gillard will "loudly barrack from the sidelines" if the former first lady runs for office.

She said it would not only be important for the US but have a "huge global impact", particularly in the context of the rise of Islamic State, also known as ISIL, in Iraq and Syria.

"Of the things that are being fought over in this security situation, pivotal to them is women's rights and women's roles," Ms Gillard told AAP.

"ISIL is a philosophy that has at its core the subjugation of women.

"So to be able, in the world in which we live today with those security challenges, to see a great democracy elect a woman to lead it would be a real statement.

"(ISIL's philosophy) is anathema to everything I believe in and it's anathema to everything Hillary stands for."

Ms Gillard, who is promoting her memoir My Story, had no criticism of Prime Minister Tony Abbott's approach to tackling ISIL.

She said if there was a Labor prime minister in The Lodge they would have taken the same approach.

Bipartisanship was important when it came to national security issues and the government was blessed by having high-quality advice from its security agencies and defence force.

She said it was important all Australians worked at building a peaceful multicultural country.

Hillary 2016!

What is Angela Merkel? Chopped liver? There are plenty of female politicians of major countries out there right now, and that doesn't stop ISIS from being who they are and doing what they do.

Furthermore, I thought these people were going to start being, like, nice to us and stuff once we elected Barack Obama to be our President. I mean, the man literally bent over backwards to accomodate Muslims in American policy, and to talk up what a great religion Islam is. I don't need to know whether ISIS is really representative of Islam. In the immortal words of Private Vasquez, all I need to know is "Where they're at."
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Salomé
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PostSubject: Re: Syrian civil war - should the West arm the rebels?   Mon Sep 29, 2014 9:58 am

Well electing Kissinger's fangirl into office would certainly be "interesting".
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PostSubject: Re: Syrian civil war - should the West arm the rebels?   Mon Sep 29, 2014 11:50 pm

Salomé wrote:
Well electing Kissinger's fangirl into office would certainly be "interesting".

Whenever I see Hillary, I am reminded of Monica Lewinsky's milk-moustache...courtesy Bill.

I'm hoping a Republican gets the nod next time...Obie has not impressed me this year.

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