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 The Crappest Bond Villains of all time

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Control
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PostSubject: Re: The Crappest Bond Villains of all time   Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:07 pm

Sean Bean, Joe Don Baker, Robbie Coltrane and Gottfried John were the best aspects of the film. I liked Serra's music, too.

The rest of the Broz villains were mainly shit. Fine actors playing low quality characters.

That Sophie Marceau, though...

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PostSubject: Re: The Crappest Bond Villains of all time   Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:12 pm

Trevelyan was originally supposed to be a former M, Lee's predecessor and Bond's mentor. That's why he has that background. Once they decided to cast Bean, they made him a 00 and altered his background to imply that his parents commited suicide rather than being among those lined up by the firing squad. It's all vague though, which is why it's confusing.
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PostSubject: Re: The Crappest Bond Villains of all time   Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:28 pm

If the PTS took place in 86, that would make Trevelyan around 45 to make the WWII back story work, which I can buy. Add 9 years for the stuff post PTS, I can see a 54 year old in Alec then. Maybe they could have gone a little stronger with ageing makeup, but I think it's acceptable.

Agents would be fitter as well, so they'd keep a more youthful looking edge. And when you look at people like George Clooney and Brad Pitt nowadays, you wouldn't think they'd be the age that they actually are.
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PostSubject: Re: The Crappest Bond Villains of all time   Wed Oct 22, 2014 3:37 pm

Control wrote:
Sean Bean, Joe Don Baker, Robbie Coltrane and Gottfried John were the best aspects of the film. I liked Serra's music, too.

Honestly GOLDENEYE has a tremendous cast. No love for Famke though? Always been one of my favorite villains of the whole series. Sadism incarnated.

Seconded about Serra's score aside from his cue for the Tank chase. Glad they replaced that. The rest is pretty great and helps build up that cold industrial atmosphere the movie has.
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PostSubject: Re: The Crappest Bond Villains of all time   Wed Oct 22, 2014 5:48 pm

FieldsMan wrote:
If the PTS took place in 86, that would make Trevelyan around 45 to make the WWII back story work, which I can buy. Add 9 years for the stuff post PTS, I can see a 54 year old in Alec then. Maybe they could have gone a little stronger with ageing makeup, but I think it's acceptable.

Agents would be fitter as well, so they'd keep a more youthful looking edge. And when you look at people like George Clooney and Brad Pitt nowadays, you wouldn't think they'd be the age that they actually are.

But they didn't. Brosnan had the same awkward hair in 1986 as he does in 1995. And I always felt one of the key problems with Goldeneye (though an overall great movie) was that the you never felt the betrayal from 006. They never really seemed like friends. Had 006 shown up in a few of Brosnan's movie and then gets killed off, and reemerges as Janus, then you'd have been on to something. But their whole friendship is capsulized in the first 5 minutes.
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PostSubject: Re: The Crappest Bond Villains of all time   Tue Nov 04, 2014 1:05 am

Gravity's Silhouette wrote:
FieldsMan wrote:
If the PTS took place in 86, that would make Trevelyan around 45 to make the WWII back story work, which I can buy. Add 9 years for the stuff post PTS, I can see a 54 year old in Alec then. Maybe they could have gone a little stronger with ageing makeup, but I think it's acceptable.

Agents would be fitter as well, so they'd keep a more youthful looking edge. And when you look at people like George Clooney and Brad Pitt nowadays, you wouldn't think they'd be the age that they actually are.

But they didn't. Brosnan had the same awkward hair in 1986 as he does in 1995. And I always felt one of the key problems with Goldeneye (though an overall great movie) was that the you never felt the betrayal from 006. They never really seemed like friends. Had 006 shown up in a few of Brosnan's movie and then gets killed off, and reemerges as Janus, then you'd have been on to something. But their whole friendship is capsulized in the first 5 minutes.

I agree but fortunately I don't think the film falls apart as a result, I do believe that Dalton would have sold this hook line and sinker however.

Crappiest Villains for me would probably fall from this list;

Kristatos
Kamal Khan
Le Chiffre
Roman Polanski...errr whatshisface Green

From the henchpersons category (ooohhh how PC am I)

Nick-Nack
Mr Generic...err I mean Stamper
Everyone that isn't either Mr White or Le Chiffre in Casino Royale.
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PostSubject: Re: The Crappest Bond Villains of all time   Tue Nov 04, 2014 8:30 am

Greene is easily the worst, for me. Completely dull and unremarkable, with no memorable qualities whatsoever. IMO, QoS has the unfortunate honor of having two of the series' "Worst Of..." tags: worst villain and worst song. I also despise Moonraker Jaws (he was fine in TSWLM) and DAF Blofeld and Nick-Nack. A lot of the truly silly 70's bad guys never really did much for me, to be honest.

...and I've always rather liked some of the most hated baddies here, like Carver, Stromburg and Elektra.
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PostSubject: Re: The Crappest Bond Villains of all time   Tue Nov 04, 2014 4:18 pm

lachesis wrote:

Crappiest Villains for me would probably fall from this list;

Kristatos
Kamal Khan
Le Chiffre
Roman Polanski...errr whatshisface Green

From the henchpersons category (ooohhh how PC am I)

Nick-Nack
Mr Generic...err I mean Stamper
Everyone that isn't either Mr White or Le Chiffre in Casino Royale.

I liked Kamal Khan. He was in the first Bond film I ever saw, so I have some fondness for him. He's also quite smooth. The audience seemed to enjoy him and he had good chemistry with Roger and Maud. He may not be as memorable as other villains, but the performance was certainly first-rate. Never quite understood, though, why he'd go along with Orlov's plot. What was in it for him?
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PostSubject: Re: The Crappest Bond Villains of all time   Tue Nov 04, 2014 5:20 pm

Gravity's Silhouette wrote:
lachesis wrote:

Crappiest Villains for me would probably fall from this list;

Kristatos
Kamal Khan
Le Chiffre
Roman Polanski...errr whatshisface Green

From the henchpersons category (ooohhh how PC am I)

Nick-Nack
Mr Generic...err I mean Stamper
Everyone that isn't either Mr White or Le Chiffre in Casino Royale.

I liked Kamal Khan. He was in the first Bond film I ever saw, so I have some fondness for him. He's also quite smooth. The audience seemed to enjoy him and he had good chemistry with Roger and Maud. He may not be as memorable as other villains, but the performance was certainly first-rate. Never quite understood, though, why he'd go along with Orlov's plot. What was in it for him?

Wealth. He'd take the jewels that Octopussy was smuggling when they swapped the jewels with the bomb.
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PostSubject: Re: The Crappest Bond Villains of all time   Tue Nov 04, 2014 10:59 pm

Gravity's Silhouette wrote:

I liked Kamal Khan. He was in the first Bond film I ever saw, so I have some fondness for him. He's also quite smooth. The audience seemed to enjoy him and he had good chemistry with Roger and Maud. He may not be as memorable as other villains, but the performance was certainly first-rate. Never quite understood, though, why he'd go along with Orlov's plot. What was in it for him?

Indeed I think greed is his motivation but my issue with him is less about the character and more about my opinion of Louis Jordan who seems to miss every key cue and has some stilted dialogue that he really does not sell.....but he is more colourful than the rest on the list I'll grant you.
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PostSubject: Re: The Crappest Bond Villains of all time   Wed Nov 05, 2014 6:53 am

Whisper from LALD - brings Bond champagne, sits on a sofa that Kananga blows up with the gas-pellet gun, ends up locked inside heroin-transportation casing. And, um ... that's it.
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PostSubject: Re: The Crappest Bond Villains of all time   Wed Nov 05, 2014 9:52 am

He does have the kill at the beginning when Bond's in the taxi...
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PostSubject: Re: The Crappest Bond Villains of all time   Wed Nov 05, 2014 5:23 pm

lachesis wrote:
Gravity's Silhouette wrote:

I liked Kamal Khan. He was in the first Bond film I ever saw, so I have some fondness for him. He's also quite smooth. The audience seemed to enjoy him and he had good chemistry with Roger and Maud. He may not be as memorable as other villains, but the performance was certainly first-rate. Never quite understood, though, why he'd go along with Orlov's plot. What was in it for him?

Indeed I think greed is his motivation but my issue with him is less about the character and more about my opinion of Louis Jordan who seems to miss every key cue and has some stilted dialogue that he really does not sell.....but he is more colourful than the rest on the list I'll grant you.

Really? Because I thought he had great chemistry with Roger, and his conversation with Bond at the dinner table was pitch-perfect. When Octopussy accuses him of deserting her and leaving millions to die, the audience got a big chuckle out of him shaking his head in disappointment and saying "Octopussy?!? Octopuuuuussssy." Loved it.

Quite honestly, he and Maud Adams make great foils for one another. Loved every scene they had together, and how she calls the shots against him: "No, he must not be harmed. Bring him to me." Later when he walks in to tell her Bond has escaped, her response to him got another big laugh from the audience: "Oh Kamal, I'd like you to meet my new houseguest."

I think you're missing out on a great villain.
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PostSubject: Re: The Crappest Bond Villains of all time   Wed Nov 05, 2014 11:07 pm

Gravity's Silhouette wrote:
lachesis wrote:
Gravity's Silhouette wrote:

I liked Kamal Khan. He was in the first Bond film I ever saw, so I have some fondness for him. He's also quite smooth. The audience seemed to enjoy him and he had good chemistry with Roger and Maud. He may not be as memorable as other villains, but the performance was certainly first-rate. Never quite understood, though, why he'd go along with Orlov's plot. What was in it for him?

Indeed I think greed is his motivation but my issue with him is less about the character and more about my opinion of Louis Jordan who seems to miss every key cue and has some stilted dialogue that he really does not sell.....but he is more colourful than the rest on the list I'll grant you.

Really? Because I thought he had great chemistry with Roger, and his conversation with Bond at the dinner table was pitch-perfect. When Octopussy accuses him of deserting her and leaving millions to die, the audience got a big chuckle out of him shaking his head in disappointment and saying "Octopussy?!? Octopuuuuussssy." Loved it.

Quite honestly, he and Maud Adams make great foils for one another. Loved every scene they had together, and how she calls the shots against him: "No, he must not be harmed. Bring him to me." Later when he walks in to tell her Bond has escaped, her response to him got another big laugh from the audience: "Oh Kamal, I'd like you to meet my new houseguest."

I think you're missing out on a great villain.

I tend to cringe rather than chuckle, I also find Maud Adams pretty universally dreadful. Overall I like the story and set up of Octopussy but the execution and acting are major obstacles, You have Berkoff chewing scenery at one end of the scale while pretty much everyone else seems to be curiously off pace or else overtly trying to make VJ look adequate....only Kabir Berdi strikes the right notes for me. It is curious because overall I prefer Octopussy to 'Never say Never Again' but the latter is imo far superior in terms of acting performances.
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PostSubject: Re: The Crappest Bond Villains of all time   Thu Nov 06, 2014 12:53 am

Disagree there. I thought Kabir Bedi ('Gobinda') was awful. One of the blandest henchmen in the series. Barely saying anything can work, but you've got to have something going on behind the eyes.

That said, he's part of my favourite gag in the film (if you can call it a gag), brilliantly sold by Jourdan, and Bedi doesn't do too bad here.

While Bond is outside on the plane.

Kamal Khan: He'll kill us all. Go out.. and get him!

Gobinda: ....out there?

Khan Khan: Go!

Gobinda: Yes, Excellence...

Has me in hysterics every time.
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PostSubject: Re: The Crappest Bond Villains of all time   Thu Nov 06, 2014 5:08 pm

Largo's Shark wrote:
Disagree there. I thought Kabir Bedi ('Gobinda') was awful. One of the blandest henchmen in the series. Barely saying anything can work, but you've got to have something going on behind the eyes.

That said, he's part of my favourite gag in the film (if you can call it a gag), brilliantly sold by Jourdan, and Bedi doesn't do too bad here.

While Bond is outside on the plane.

Kamal Khan: He'll kill us all. Go out.. and get him!

Gobinda: ....out there?

Khan Khan: Go!

Gobinda: Yes, Excellence...

Has me in hysterics every time.

A gag so popular at the time with audiences that EON tried to get away with using it again in AVTAK; one of the most shameless attempts at laziness by EON ever, and they were rightly called to the carpet for it by critics and fans, as if somehow EON expected us to forget that we'd just seen that same gag less than 2 years earlier.
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PostSubject: Re: The Crappest Bond Villains of all time   Thu Nov 06, 2014 5:15 pm

I actually think AVTAK did it better because it seems more natural that Zorin would give such an insane order, and his henchman doesn't even say anything, he just looks up at him with an expression that couldn't be anything other than "are you fucking kidding me?" It's a rip-off, but a more perfected take, like how MOONRAKER was to THE SPY WHO LOVED ME.
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PostSubject: Re: The Crappest Bond Villains of all time   Thu Nov 06, 2014 11:03 pm

Makeshift Python wrote:
I actually think AVTAK did it better because it seems more natural that Zorin would give such an insane order, and his henchman doesn't even say anything, he just looks up at him with an expression that couldn't be anything other than "are you fucking kidding me?" It's a rip-off, but a more perfected take, like how MOONRAKER was to THE SPY WHO LOVED ME.

Indeed this sums it up, Walken imbues Zorin with that element of threat (and energy) the ineffectual jourdan never delivers imo.
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PostSubject: Re: The Crappest Bond Villains of all time   Thu Nov 06, 2014 11:55 pm

I think Jourdan is fine, but he's middle of the road compared to what came before and after. Same with Julian Glover. They at least have a sinister quality to them, whereas guys like Carver and Greene come off as total buffoons who don't have much of a commanding presence to convince me that anyone would follow them.
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