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 Russian savagery in Europe.

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Campbell4
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PostSubject: Re: Russian savagery in Europe.   Mon Feb 23, 2015 1:26 am

Erica, brilliant show! Just for fun, how many wars did the UK start/help start since 1945? Or just since 2001 if that suits you better? How many coup d'états, thwarting of legitimate democratic movements? How many times did your precious UK intervene in pursuit of its own expansion of interests? And look how well that played out brilliant. Meanwhile, the Germans, well, I don't know. Can't say they've tried to oppress me. Or anybody apart from themselve. Whereas you, well, not sure how you'd reacted if Scotland went independent. You don't seem to value a people taking fate in its own hands too much. And how if the majority of Britons votes against leaving the EU, will that sit well with you? How if the majority of Europeans wants a political union, could your hurt British pride stand this rejection?
Erica, I have no idea why you befriended me, you don't seem to be fond of me. Well, at least don't wonder why I don't like to share the country with you.
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Campbell4
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PostSubject: Re: Russian savagery in Europe.   Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:56 am

I note that you have unfriended me now, very mature & doubtlessly for the better. Superior line of argument, too.you in turn did not deem my arguments worthy of your brillian reply, fine. I can see you making millions with as a pointed pen, you should turn to a job in journalism, LOL! In that Elba topic you said something about supremacist nonsense and batshit insane, racist too. Really I've come to think you are maybe not so far from it yourself, only with you it's Germans you can't stand. Sure have a touching story there, they must give you terrible dreams, only I don't care about it. Erica, you fancy yourself eloquent and the brightest candle on the cake. But you really strike me as childish, you can't stand not coming out on top and yu get cramps when someone dares giving backchat. You convinced me, you really are a sorry pr*ck. And now you can all kiss my shiny, I don't care any more. Whatever LOL!
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Salomé
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PostSubject: Re: Russian savagery in Europe.   Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:26 am

It is rather interesting that the war crimes committed by the German army during world war I are so easily brushed over. Speaking specifically about Belgium, I suppose people abroad might be familiar with the razing of Louvain or the massacre at Dinant, but there are countless smaller communities which were decimated.

People appear to want to create a post-facto contrast between the Wehrmacht/SS and the Deutsches Heer. Whilst there are certainly big ideological differences laying underneath, in terms of both armies' treatment of innocent civilians, the difference is much smaller than the (created?) perception might suggest.
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Campbell4
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PostSubject: Re: Russian savagery in Europe.   Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:39 am

Nothing easily brushed over, I don't defend the Germans. I merely refuse the notion they must be kept as our bogeyman for war crimes committed three generations ago, while similar crimes committed by other countries get a free pass since only the Germans can be Nazis. I also note that German militarism didn't bother us a lot when it came handy for Britain's own agenda. There was a certain Napoleon who considered the continent in much the same manner as his personal sandbox. Also occupied lots of German countries, tried to get Russia sacked and so on. Didn't trouble anybody that Prussian militarism helped cutting him back to size, no? Also during the fithies to eighties German militarism was much in demand. Looks as if we can live happily with it when it suits us. Frankly, I also have my doubts the fate of Franc and how they suffered under German occupation gives the one mentioning them much of a headache. do you?
But really, I don't want to discuss this any more here. you can pm me, but in the interest of my tummy I keep my distance now.
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Erica Ambler
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PostSubject: Re: Russian savagery in Europe.   Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:57 am

Salomé wrote:
It is rather interesting that the war crimes committed by the German army during world war I are so easily brushed over. Speaking specifically about Belgium, I suppose people abroad might be familiar with the razing of Louvain or the massacre at Dinant, but there are countless smaller communities which were decimated.

People appear to want to create a post-facto contrast between the Wehrmacht/SS and the Deutsches Heer. Whilst there are certainly big ideological differences laying underneath, in terms of both armies' treatment of innocent civilians, the difference is much smaller than the (created?) perception might suggest.

There's a fascinating review of German Atrocities, 1914: A History of Denial on amazon.co.uk:

Quote :
This book, dealing with charges of German atrocities in World War I, matters because goes to the heart of an important question about World War II. Were the horrors of the war that followed an aberration, a madness induced by Hitler cleverly exploiting the alleged harshness of Versailles, or were they based on something deeply flawed in the German psyche? If the first is true, then the Allies who imposed Versailles--Britain, France, and the United States--are as much to blame as Germany. If the latter is true, then blame for the horrors of both wars falls almost solely on Germany. ... The use of human shields in combat, the execution of hostages, the systematic destruction of towns was quite clearly intended to terrorize the Belgian population into accepting a harsh German occupation and was not done by rank-and-file soldiers caught up in a moment of panic.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/German-Atrocities-1914-History-Denial/dp/0300107919/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1424623998&sr=8-1&keywords=german+atrocities+1914+a+history+of+denial
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Salomé
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PostSubject: Re: Russian savagery in Europe.   Mon Feb 23, 2015 4:06 am

A standard tactic was to use human shields (civilians captured in an already occupied town) and advance upon a new position. If there were any survivors at all of said tactic, they were promptly executed. As well as the wholesale slaughter of entire communities as a retaliation for the death of a few German soldiers.

To me it's not really about keeping them our "Boogeyman". But the minimal amount of respect the victims deserve is a simple acknowledgment of the crimes which were committed against them. To this day, we fall well short of that.
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Erica Ambler
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PostSubject: Re: Russian savagery in Europe.   Mon Feb 23, 2015 4:20 am

Salomé wrote:
To me it's not really about keeping them our "Boogeyman".

The EU faces a particularly difficult moment. Regardless of whether Britain stays or goes, its position in the EU is not commensurate with its global importance simply because it didn't join the Euro. That only leaves France to check German ambition, but France is, regrettably, a much reduced nation. It's not a situation that pleases anyone, least of all Germans, who, in my experience, tend to be well educated and have a good sense of their brutal history.  That said, I lived with a German woman whose self-belief relied on the notion that the Nazis were an inexplicable aberration. Unfortunately, my own readings could not support that.
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Erica Ambler
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PostSubject: Re: Russian savagery in Europe.   Wed Feb 25, 2015 7:38 pm

Campbell4 wrote:
Meanwhile, the Germans, well, I don't know. Can't say they've tried to oppress me. Or anybody apart from themselves.

Breathtaking ignorance. The Germans industrialized murder, a unique achievement. Then they threw in a spurious racial ideology to justify it. Their history makes my skin crawl.  

Campbell4 wrote:
Whereas you, well, not sure how you'd reacted if Scotland went independent.

I’d be overjoyed. But independence does not mean within the EU. You’d just be leeching off Berlin instead of London then.

Campbell4 wrote:
How if the majority of Europeans wants a political union, could your hurt British pride stand this rejection?

None of my business what they do. They're sovereign nations. As is the UK.

Campbell4 wrote:
Erica, I have no idea why you befriended me, you don't seem to be fond of me.

You glory in your ignorance, but I’ve no idea what you mean about befriending. Let me spell it out: the forum is a better place without you.

Campbell4 wrote:
In that Elba topic you said something about supremacist nonsense and batshit insane, racist too. Really I've come to think you are maybe not so far from it yourself, only with you it's Germans you can't stand.

The Germans aren’t a race. Lookup the difference between nation and race then go back to school.
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CJB
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PostSubject: Re: Russian savagery in Europe.   Sat Feb 28, 2015 12:17 pm

http://www.news.com.au/world/russian-opposition-leader-boris-nemtsov-shot-dead-in-moscow/story-fndir2ev-1227242446262

Quote :
RUSSIAN opposition leader and outspoken critic of Vladimir Putin, Boris Nemtsov, has reportedly been shot dead in central Moscow.

Nemtsov was killed just a day before a protest planned against Putin’s rule.

The death of Nemtsov, a 55-year-old former deputy prime minister, ignited a fury among opposition figures who assailed the Kremlin for creating an atmosphere of intolerance of any dissent. Putin quickly offered his condolences and called the murder a provocation.

I'm told by family that back in the 90's Nemtsov looked like presidential material (back when it was actually possible for someone other than Vladimir Putin to be elected).

He can bask in state-enforced popularity now, but soon enough Putin will be hanging from the Kremlin spires.
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Erica Ambler
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PostSubject: Re: Russian savagery in Europe.   Sat Aug 15, 2015 1:56 am

Amusing article on Russian insanity:

“If you spent your youth being told Marxism-Leninism was the only true philosophy and then you found it was nonsense, it’s not surprising you start to wonder if everything else you thought about the world might not be a trick too.”

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/aug/14/hitler-was-an-anglo-american-stooge-the-tall-tales-in-a-moscow-bookshop
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CJB
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PostSubject: Re: Russian savagery in Europe.   Sat Aug 15, 2015 4:58 pm

You just need to read some of the commentary of the Putinbots on YouTube or wherever else. Poroshenko is apparently a CIA-Nazi-Zionist Jew. They actually believe he can balance and adhere to the three ideologies of liberal-capitalism, National Socialism, and Judaism with no difficulty. Critical thinking is MIA in repressive societies.  

I've increasingly come to the realisation that Slavs should be seen (in brothels) and not heard.
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