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Salomé
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PostSubject: Inception   Fri Apr 01, 2011 10:07 pm



The thread at the old place feature some good discussion as well as a lot of tomfoolery.

Even though not everyone might appreciate Nolan's movie in equal measures, it's hard to argue against the fact that he at least tried to make a movie for grown-ups, one that required the audience to think and engage some of the ideas he presents them with.

The movie itself can be perceived on so many different layers - one of which is an allegory on the creative process of movie-making.

A few question to get the ball running:

  • Whose totem is the paper windmill?

  • Do you believe (as I do) the picture in the safe is the audience's totem?

  • Do you believe it's a coincidence that Nolan cast a woman who previously played Piaf in that specific role?


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PostSubject: Re: Inception   Fri Apr 01, 2011 10:28 pm

Salomé wrote:
Do you believe it's a coincidence that Nolan cast a woman who previously played Piaf in that specific role?
Hans Zimmer claims it's coincidence and that Nolan considered removing "Non, je ne regrette rien" once Cotillard was cast. There's some background here
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PostSubject: Re: Inception   Fri Apr 01, 2011 10:29 pm

ambler wrote:
Salomé wrote:
Do you believe it's a coincidence that Nolan cast a woman who previously played Piaf in that specific role?
Hans Zimmer claims it's coincidence and that Nolan considered removing "Non, je ne regrette rien" once Cotillard was cast. There's some background here

Well I'm aware of Nolan's public denial but I choose to believe otherwise. :D
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PostSubject: Re: Inception   Fri Apr 01, 2011 11:49 pm

Salomé wrote:
Well I'm aware of Nolan's public denial but I choose to believe otherwise. :D

Why?

What's your take on the film, anyway? You alluded to something or other in one of the other threads. Was it a Freudian interpretation?
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PostSubject: Re: Inception   Sat Apr 02, 2011 1:31 am

ambler wrote:
Salomé wrote:
Well I'm aware of Nolan's public denial but I choose to believe otherwise. :D

Why?

What's your take on the film, anyway? You alluded to something or other in one of the other threads. Was it a Freudian interpretation?

I have so many different ideas and theories about that movie... Many of which likely only exist in my mind.

Limiting it to the narrative: the entire movie is a dream, Cobb's dream. His wife was right about the world they are inhabiting not yet being the 'real' world.
Saito is actually sent there to Incept Cobb, likely hired by Mal to do so. In the hope of making him realize the truth.

Now if we want to talk beyond the basic plot, there are countless theories and angles you could look at the movie with.

One very popular one that I agree with is that the entire movie is meant as an allegory of the creative process from a directors point of view.

Cobb = director
Ariadne = screenwriter
Eames = the actor
Arthur = the producer
Saito represents the big studios

Another fun thing to discuss is the use of the photograph. It has been suggested that it was used as a clever way to break the fourth wall. It was meant as the totem of reality for the "real" real world.
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PostSubject: Re: Inception   Sat Apr 02, 2011 3:39 am

Salomé wrote:
Limiting it to the narrative: the entire movie is a dream, Cobb's dream. His wife was right about the world they are inhabiting not yet being the 'real' world.
Saito is actually sent there to Incept Cobb, likely hired by Mal to do so. In the hope of making him realize the truth.
I don't think any of that is really substantiated by the film itself. Just sayin'.
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PostSubject: Re: Inception   Sat Apr 02, 2011 4:00 am

Arkadin wrote:
Salomé wrote:
Limiting it to the narrative: the entire movie is a dream, Cobb's dream. His wife was right about the world they are inhabiting not yet being the 'real' world.
Saito is actually sent there to Incept Cobb, likely hired by Mal to do so. In the hope of making him realize the truth.
I don't think any of that is really substantiated by the film itself. Just sayin'.

I think it is, only it's all very vague.

1. Cobb's insistence on the point that dreamers are unaware of the fact that they are dreaming.

2. If Cobb is not dreaming, then why is the Mombasa sequence filled with dream logic?

3. There is nothing in the movie that proves that Mal was wrong.

4. Why does Saito insist on going along when his presence is not at all required and his lack of experience supposedly makes it dangerous? One reason might be because Fisher is not the real target of the Inception, Cobb is. This also correlates nicely with Cobb's theory of how Inception has to be indirect so that the mind is not aware of the outside influence.

Having said that, part of the fun was the fact that there is no "right" answer. So you are right in saying that my theory is likely wrong, or it's as likely to be wrong as any other theory. ;)

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PostSubject: Re: Inception   Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:04 pm

My interpretation of Inception will have to await a second viewing, but, that aside, much of the fanboy criticism of Inception seems to be directed at Ellen Page. Having essentially abandoned cinema post-2005, I have no idea who she is or what baggage she brings, but her performance seemed all right to me. She may have had the thankless task of being Little Miss Exposition, but I enjoyed the scenes between her and Marion Cotillard. Hard to believe that the two belong to the same species; Cotillard is like a cat toying with a mouse.
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PostSubject: Re: Inception   Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:49 pm

Salomé wrote:
1. Cobb's insistence on the point that dreamers are unaware of the fact that they are dreaming.
Except Cobb is paranoid about whether or not he is dreaming. That's the whole point of his character arc. He's obsessed with questioning reality because he's become so attached to his own artificial world that he's started to lose touch with the real one.

Salomé wrote:
2. If Cobb is not dreaming, then why is the Mombasa sequence filled with dream logic?
Nolan: "I wanted to show the potential for the real world to have analogies to the dream world. The mazelike city of Mombasa does that."

Salomé wrote:
3. There is nothing in the movie that proves that Mal was wrong.
Absence of proof is not proof. Nolan has structured this film--which is about existential doubt--in such a way that we can't be entirely sure about anything. But just because there is some doubt doesn't mean that there are some readings the film suggests more strongly than others. There isn't much to suggest she was right, and there's diddly to suggest that Saito is somehow performing an inception on Cobb. You have to invent that idea out of thin air.

Salomé wrote:
4. Why does Saito insist on going along when his presence is not at all required and his lack of experience supposedly makes it dangerous?
As the movie says, he can't verify if they legitimately do inception without being there.
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PostSubject: Re: Inception   Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:51 pm

ambler wrote:
Having essentially abandoned cinema post-2005, I have no idea who she is or what baggage she brings, but her performance seemed all right to me. She may have had the thankless task of being Little Miss Exposition, but I enjoyed the scenes between her and Marion Cotillard. Hard to believe that the two belong to the same species; Cotillard is like a cat toying with a mouse.
There's a lot of anti-Page sentiment following JUNO, a love-it-or-hate-it indie comedy about a pregnant girl in high school. Personally, I'm with ya. I think she does okay in INCEPTION.
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PostSubject: Re: Inception   Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:57 pm

I don't understand the Page-hate, personally. She's in no way a bad actress and people just need to realise Juno isn't everyones cup of tea but Page still acted fine in that.

And yeah, Ambler, Cotillard and Page scenes were like a cat with a mouse.

I think this may need a rewatch at some point.
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PostSubject: Re: Inception   Tue Apr 05, 2011 12:37 am

Arkadin wrote:
Salomé wrote:
1. Cobb's insistence on the point that dreamers are unaware of the fact that they are dreaming.
Except Cobb is paranoid about whether or not he is dreaming. That's the whole point of his character arc. He's obsessed with questioning reality because he's become so attached to his own artificial world that he's started to lose touch with the real one.

Salomé wrote:
2. If Cobb is not dreaming, then why is the Mombasa sequence filled with dream logic?
Nolan: "I wanted to show the potential for the real world to have analogies to the dream world. The mazelike city of Mombasa does that."

Salomé wrote:
3. There is nothing in the movie that proves that Mal was wrong.
Absence of proof is not proof. Nolan has structured this film--which is about existential doubt--in such a way that we can't be entirely sure about anything. But just because there is some doubt doesn't mean that there are some readings the film suggests more strongly than others. There isn't much to suggest she was right, and there's diddly to suggest that Saito is somehow performing an inception on Cobb. You have to invent that idea out of thin air.

Salomé wrote:
4. Why does Saito insist on going along when his presence is not at all required and his lack of experience supposedly makes it dangerous?
As the movie says, he can't verify if they legitimately do inception without being there.

You raise some interesting points. I had no idea Nolan had spoken in such detail about the reality within his movie.
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