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 A Bird With A Wing Down

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FieldsMan
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PostSubject: A Bird With A Wing Down   Wed Apr 01, 2015 5:12 pm

Finally making my way through The Spy Who Loved Me… Really liked the title of the chapter 'A Bird With A Wing Down'. I think that would make a great title for a Bond film, which leads me to: I know Fleming said that only the title of the novel can be used for a film adaptation, but with Jaws allegedly been lifted from this book, what else can sneakily be taken from the novel, and could chapter names from SPY be used at all?

And on another note, what do the female members of the board think of The Spy Who Loved Me and about Viv Michel? How do you feel about Fleming's representation of women (considering time period and all that) through the protagonist?
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Kath
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PostSubject: Re: A Bird With A Wing Down   Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:18 am

FieldsMan wrote:
Finally making my way through The Spy Who Loved Me… Really liked the title of the chapter 'A Bird With A Wing Down'. I think that would make a great title for a Bond film, which leads me to: I know Fleming said that only the title of the novel can be used for a film adaptation,  but with Jaws allegedly been lifted from this book, what else can sneakily be taken from the novel, and could chapter names from SPY be used at all?

And on another note, what do the female members of the board think of The Spy Who Loved Me and about Viv Michel? How do you feel about Fleming's representation of women (considering time period and all that) through the protagonist?

Do you have Horror on your mind as a role-model for Jaws? It honestly never occurred to me, because Horror is much more sinister; but I like the idea. I have just found the pair of slugs in a Chandler short-story. big grin

I always love Fleming's chapters, but I sometimes think that they only make sense as a whole or in connection with the novel ("Go West, Young Woman"). Just think of the three sections in GF which I love very much. My favourite in TSWLM is "To sleep - Perchance to die!" which is so obviously a twisted Hamlet-quote, that it might work to use it for a title. That would be a break with spectators' expectations for a Bond film! What do you think?
Honestly, as much I love "A Bird with a Wing down", I'd rather expect something melodramatic an tissue-demanding than a Bond movie...But, on the other hand, this break of expectations and genre conventions sounds interesting.

I found that novel very scary, in the meaning that I find he portrayal of a woman pretty convincing. I can at least sympathize that some readers assumed that the novel was really written by Vivienne Michel.
I say that Bond girls a rather "modern" in general. They always somehow cope on their own which is almost a feminist way of life considering that they were created in the 1950s. None of them is a dutiful daughter or caring house-wife. Almost all of them are alone, they have lost their families and so they have to find a way to somehow survive. The most extreme case may be Honeychild Ryder who is a Mogli / Tarzan figure and the most conservative Domino who finds herself a rich man. But all of them have to manage somehow on their own and this was a challenging task in the 1950s. Ryder concludes that she can later work as a call girl, because that is the only future available to her. As far as I know, a very appraised text of a woman wandering off on her own is Capote's "Breakfast at Tiffany's" of 1959. So, I say, if this is considered feminist, Fleming is clearly a precursor of that. I like Michel even better because she does not aspire social status but freedom. It would not occur to Michel to have breakfast out of a paper bag in front of a jewellery store...
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Hilly KCMG
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PostSubject: Re: A Bird With A Wing Down   Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:04 am

Wasn't Tracy a bird with a wing down? I do like some of his OHMSS chapter titles like "Hell's Delight Etc". Even his dedication to Sir Hilary Bray "who came to the aid of the party" and I forget who but he dedicates: "without whom, etc"


Last edited by Hilly KCMG on Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:01 am; edited 1 time in total
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AMC Hornet
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PostSubject: Re: A Bird With A Wing Down   Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:07 am

Hilly KCMG wrote:
Wasn't Tracy a bed with a wing down?

Don't change that - it's perfect.

As for Vivian/Fleming's first part ('Me'), I can only get through it by skipping the 'Woman's Home Journal' portions between pp 31 (Then I met Derek) and 57, and pp 64 - 76. 

I haven't listened to Samantha Bond reading the book yet but when I do, I hope she does the same.

And don't anyone suggest 'Dynamite From Nightmare-land' as a title - that's puerile
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Hilly KCMG
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PostSubject: Re: A Bird With A Wing Down   Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:01 am

I might have to change it. Such is writing late at night and after a couple of pints.
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Kath
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PostSubject: Re: A Bird With A Wing Down   Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:36 am

No, please don't. ROTFLMAO
Perfect Freudian slip.

But, yes, you're right. Tracy is the other "bird with a wing down". As far as I remember, these two fall under this label. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I actually like those pages because it feels like not reading Bond at all. I always knew that Fleming was a chameleon who could change into any other author, but this....?!
I am just fascinated how different this one novel is.
But am I the only one who wonders why Bond drags Michel out of the house by an ankle instead of carrying her?

I always love how Fleming fools the reader. I mean, there is not only this fake dedication; there is also the pretext in FRWL claiming that all details given about the Russian secret service are real. Problem being that the name of General G. means something like "Murder and Slaughter" or so in Russian...Then there is the disclaimer of Fleming's authorship for TSWLM. Although, unfortunately, I was never able to find out if it was added by Fleming himself or his editor. It just fits in with the overall picture; but I had already discussed this with another group and we couldn't find out for sure. And, one of my favourites, when I was 11 or so I have learned in school that you can die of skin suffocation. In my biology class. "Do you know why those ladies whom James Bond lets bath in fluid gold die?" (yes, SO many mistakes in one question).
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CJB
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PostSubject: Re: A Bird With A Wing Down   Sun Jan 28, 2018 4:59 pm

Kath wrote:
there is also the pretext in FRWL claiming that all details given about the Russian secret service are real. Problem being that the name of General G. means something like "Murder and Slaughter" or so in Russian

"Crude Butcher" is the more literal translation (sans the possessive "-ov" Slavic suffix).

I think elements of Spy could be commandeered for a future Bond film, but obviously not the story as a faithful whole; not as an EON Bond film in any case. Perhaps Tarantino would be able to craft a workable movie out of it. After all, Hateful Eight was essentially just a group of shady characters in a motel, ending in the requisite violence.
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Kath
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PostSubject: Re: A Bird With A Wing Down   Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:27 am

CJB wrote:
Kath wrote:
there is also the pretext in FRWL claiming that all details given about the Russian secret service are real. Problem being that the name of General G. means something like "Murder and Slaughter" or so in Russian

"Crude Butcher" is the more literal translation (sans the possessive "-ov" Slavic suffix).

I think elements of Spy could be commandeered for a future Bond film, but obviously not the story as a faithful whole; not as an EON Bond film in any case. Perhaps Tarantino would be able to craft a workable movie out of it. After all, Hateful Eight was essentially just a group of shady characters in a motel, ending in the requisite violence.

Thank you for the more exact translation!!
I think it would definitely work if you restrict the film to the second half of the book. Or you do the first part of the book and have a romance. Problem being, in either way you lose the final message about what Eco calls "Bond's healing powers". Bond does more than just rescue her from the thugs. So, yes, I agree that you cannot do a faithful adaption...
But the burning motel could easily be part of any Bond movie, couldn't it? Next to the wardrobe that is a secret door (and reappears in TMWTGG).
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hegottheboot
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PostSubject: Re: A Bird With A Wing Down   Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:13 pm

TSWLM is a different flavor in the writing and is truly a one off that shows Fleming had far more range than he is given credit for. I think had it not been for the "All women love" line that the book could be taken more seriously.
However it is the fact that the story itself is low key and Bond is only a side character that keeps it from being as popular. Many times it more resembles one of the short stories than the novels.
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Kath
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PostSubject: Re: A Bird With A Wing Down   Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:56 am

hegottheboot wrote:
TSWLM is a different flavor in the writing and is truly a one off that shows Fleming had far more range than he is given credit for. I think had it not been for the "All women love" line that the book could be taken more seriously.

Yes, you're right. I tend to ignore those "wonderful" lines...(there are more throughout the novels).
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