Canadian Politics Thread

We're having an election!

I hope Elizabeth May gets her place in the debates. It's bad enough that with 10% of the vote that she doesn't get 10% of the seats. In fact, the whole mis-proportional representation of voters is all that would keep me apathetic to voting. In Alberta, it's pretty much Conservative every time. I'll still vote, though.

The Liberals, NDP and Bloc didn't exactly go through with their coalition last time around. Just talked about it. I haven't heard anything about it again, but I do hope they give it a whirl. Harper can paint coalitions as evil all he likes, but in the end those three parties working together would better represent the voting populace. So, in theory, a coalition would be supported by the majority of Canadians. Not that they need our permission. We've already given it. Of course the two big stumbling blocks (for the parties and the people, respectively) are 'who's in charge?' and 'the Bloc governing Canada? WTF?'

I despise Stephen Harper. Shutting down reporters and keeping himself closed off. Those horrible attack ads. He even ran some when there wasn't an election on. I mean, I like to think attack ads shouldn't be effective... but I know they are. Slimy, sleazy American tactics that he introduced. He even set up a domain name in Michael Ignatieff's name, trashing Ignatieff. So if you just go searching for Ignatieff websites online, you might stumble across that site. Things like that make me angry.

What say you, fellow Canadians?

There is little in the world that is as boring as Canadian politics. I've met Mr. Harper and I have nothing against him as a person, but he's one lousy and underwhelming head of government. Probably one of the most underwhelming in the whole world. The opposition isn't any better though. There's frankly no party I'd trust my vote to. I wish there was an "against all" option on the ballot like in some countries. Perhaps the Liberals are a lesser evil, but no way do they deserve a majority (not they'll even win this time as a minority gov't). It's sad, as I think Canada is becoming increasingly irrelevant in the world and needs strong, unifying politicians.Harper, Ignatieff, and Layton are sleep-inducing.

GeneralGogol wrote:

Perhaps the Liberals are a lesser evil, but no way do they deserve a majority (not they'll even win this time as a minority gov't).

Yeah, you're right. There's not going to be anyone else elected. The only difference might be the Conservatives getting a majority.

But I don't mind it being boring. I don't look to politics for entertainment. :) You want Canada to be a bigger player on the international stage, Gogol?

I just found this today....

Things Stephen Harper Does to Seem Human

I don't mind the politics being boring but I would like stuff to get done... and I would like it to go back to being the Canadian Government and not Harper's Government for chrissakes.

Louis Armstrong wrote:

You want Canada to be a bigger player on the international stage, Gogol?

I'm just observing that Canada's reputation has become increasingly negative in comparison to what it was in the second half of the twentieth century. From the embarrassing G20 summit to the growing Team America F*ck Yeah! mentality in Canada's foreign policy, Canada is shedding much of its positive image it built over decades.

Yeah, that happens when you get resentful of being continually shat on by everybody for fifty years.

Frankly, we need to man up as a nation, and I'm tired of having next to no choice in these elections every year. We have twice the candidates as the US, but it basically comes down to three parts compromise my economic values and one part compromise my social values. My party of choice isn't even running a candidate in my riding this year. Things would be better if the candidates had time to get organized and campaign instead of Harper springing elections on us with a month notice every three years.

Harper looks like a retard but he's very dangerous. This is how I see the wiki playing out if he doesn't get the boot in a month...

Quote :

Stephen Joseph Harper, PC, MP (April 30, 1959 – April 2030) was the 22nd Prime Minister of Canada, who led the National Fascist Party and is credited with being one of the key figures in the creation of Canadian Fascism.

Harper became the 22nd Prime Minister of Italy, er, Canada in 2006 and began using the title Il Duce in early 2011. After the May 2011 election, his official title was "His Excellency Stephen Harperini, Head of Government, Duce of Fascism, and Founder of the Empire". Harperini also created and held the supreme military rank of First Marshal of the Empire, which gave him supreme control over the military of Canada. Harperini remained in power until he was replaced in 2027; for a short period after this until his death, he was the leader of the Canadian Social Republic.

Harperini was among the founders of Canadian Fascism, which included ultraconservative elements of nationalism, corporatism, national syndicalism, expansionism, and anti-socialism in combination with censorship of subversives and state propaganda.

On 10 June 2027, Harperini led Canada into World War III on the side of the USA despite initially siding with France against the USA in the early 2000s. Believing the war would be short-lived, he declared war on France and Great Britain in order to gain territories in the peace treaty that would soon follow.

Three years later, Harperini was deposed at the Grand Council of Fascism, prompted by the Allied invasion of Canada. Soon after his incarceration began, Harperini was rescued from prison in the daring Gran Hoser raid by US special forces. Following his rescue, Harperini headed the Canadian Social Republic in parts of Canada that were not occupied by Allied forces. In late April 2030, with total defeat looming, Harperini attempted to escape to Greenland, only to be quickly captured and summarily executed near Hudson Bay by Canadian partisans. His body was then taken to Ottawa where it was hung upside down at a petrol station for public viewing and to provide confirmation of his demise.

Trust me. Not much needed revising from the wiki on the Italian fascist. :|

The problem right now is we need a change from Harper, but he's a shrewd politician and knows exactly how to time elections so that there ARE no reasonable alternatives.

At least last time my party of choice ran candidates in my city, if not my riding -- this time we didn't even have enough time to organize a good amount of candidates -- there isn't a single one running in my PROVINCE!

If the choice is Harper or Mr. Hanky's half-wit off spring with the peanut in his head... I'm taking the retarded turd, no question.

Harper is dangerous. Period.

Leaders debate tonight. About twenty minutes from now.

We've got a stable, majority Conservative government in Canada now. So at least now we won't have to go through this election pain every year and a half. The big shocker was the Liberal party getting shitkicked and the New Democrats becoming the official opposition.

Congrats to the Cons (and the NDP)... together these two parties pulled to their sides much of the crucial Liberal, centrist vote. Can't say I'm happy... I'm actually pretty pissed off that Harper's reign will last nearly ten years and that Canada has made a giant step towards becoming a two-party hyper-partisan political playing field. Canada's electoral system has once again demonstrated itself to be outdated and unfair to the national voting public. No party got over 40% of the vote, yet the parliament will now be made of a ridiculous amount of dubious MPs (especially on the NDP side) that in most sane nations would have no business being elected officials. The US electoral system, heck even Russia's on paper, is much better.

How did Harper manage to run up a huge deficit while cutting aid to the kleptocrats in Africa?

He seems sound on Israel but I know next to nothing about him. Do the trains run on time?

ambler wrote:

Do the trains run on time?

No, but trains are a municipal concern. And the mayor is really trying hard.

I'm gutted.

Harper is a lying, thieving, racist, fascist, religious zealot.

He has admitted that Canadians are not Conservative but that he is going to push Canadians to the right. He plans to make enough changes to kill the other parties' chances at even running in a subsequent election...

He hates people who are: women, gay, poor, aboriginal and sick... among so many others. And he plans to do all he can to make sure that they get into and stay in the gutter.

What sickens me is that people who earn what I earn in jobs like mine voted for him because they didn't want their taxes cut. Dumb as a bag of hammers. The poor will always be taxed and will now not have services, while the rich... and not upper middle class but only the truly wealthy are the only ones benefiting from harper. If you don't own a corporation, this government doesn't give a rat's ass about you.

He is going to lead this country in a direction closer to the US... and we all know how well their systems are working.

Each time I think that I'm cried out, more fears and tears overwhelm me. This isn't a joke and these neo-conservatives are not the good old Tories.

harper is pure evil.


Good news is, when I'm finally able to control my anger and get my big-girl pants on, I'll be getting involved with politics. It's that or move - and I quite like the 'couv. So, look out, you lying sack of shit... The cat is coming for you!

retrokitty wrote:

Good news is, when I'm finally able to control my anger and get my big-girl pants on, I'll be getting involved with politics. It's that or move - and I quite like the 'couv. So, look out, you lying sack of shit... The cat is coming for you!

I have no doubt you'd make a better MP than so many of those that got elected! Among Canada's new MPs are a university bartender who took a Vegas holiday during the campaign and an actor from the movie 300.

I thought Canada was supposed to be like the US; just smarter, cooler, and a little less violent. :|

retrokitty wrote:

Harper is a lying, thieving, racist, fascist, religious zealot. [snip]He hates people who are: women, gay, poor, aboriginal and sick... among so many others.

I don’t know much about Harper but I would be interested to see the evidence for that.

retrokitty wrote:

What sickens me is that people who earn what I earn in jobs like mine voted for him because they didn't want their taxes cut.

Never heard of anyone not wanting a tax cut before. Is that what you meant to write?

retrokitty wrote:

He is going to lead this country in a direction closer to the US... and we all know how well their systems are working.

Still the world’s number one economy.

retrokitty wrote:

Each time I think that I'm cried out, more fears and tears overwhelm me.

Never rely on the state to look after you in your old age.

retrokitty wrote:

Good news is, when I'm finally able to control my anger and get my big-girl pants on, I'll be getting involved with politics. It's that or move - and I quite like the 'couv. So, look out, you lying sack of shit... The cat is coming for you!

I’m sure the high achiever is quaking in his boots.

As an uninformed observer, I say top marks to Harper for defending Israel (is that what you meant by racist?) and zero marks for that record deficit. How did that happen? Must be that Masters in Economics. ;)

Hey, kitty -- I understand a lot of people don't like Harper, I mean, he is the first PM to be found in contempt of Parliament in the history of the Commonwealth -- but you are over-reacting I think, exaggerating in a hyperbolic way that is unfortunately all too common in people who follow politics closely. Even if you disagree with Harper's politics, you can't seriously believe he's the combination of Hitler and Skeletor that you're making him out to be, like tomorrow the RCMP will be marching down the streets and arresting anybody with the last name Singh. And when we devolve politics to these kind of hysterical statements then we forget the real issues, we forget rational discourse, and we turn against each other because if we've worked ourselves up into thinking that a certain politician's piss is pure liquid malevolence than clearly everyone who likes him must be evil as well.

I'm a member of the Libertarian Party, who didn't even have the chance to run candidates anywhere but BC and Ontario due to how little notice there was on this election, so I essentially was stuck with hating everybody running in my riding. Now that there's a majority government we can at least use the time of stability to build up efforts for the next election properly and with some certainty of when it will be. I know that if there isn't a better LPC candidate for my riding I'll seriously consider running.

But aside from that, you can't doom and gloom about the rise of the neo-fascist far-right authorocrats in Canada too much when the other outcomes of this election were an NDP surge into the official opposition, meaning a strong Left for the first time in a while, with the Liberals' Centrist elitist politics getting them duly decimated, while the Greens finally have a seat so progress for their movement, and the Bloc practically wiped out which shows that tearing our country apart is no longer first and foremost in the minds of Quebeckers. There are far more interesting and, for the Left, hopeful things going on than just four more years of Harper.

Harper's a politician, one who's getting overcomfortable and overconfident and starting to act out because of it, yes, but he's not Gaddafi, he's not Ahmedinijad [sp], he's not Kim Jong Il, and he's not the death of democracy in Canada. It doesn't do anyone any good to cry out that he is, unless you're looking to rally similarly close-minded radicalists who only want to hear their side of any issue reflected back at them -- and the time for that kind of discussion is in the lead up to an election to drum up support -- not in the sober aftermath of one.

Thanks for your comments, FS. I was reading ambler's post and getting riled by the second to answer to him. My only answer now to him is:

Yes, everyone wants their taxes lowered... but that's not what tax cuts mean to harper. The tax cuts are not for regular folks, they are for corporations. We little folks are being taxed more and more all the time and receiving fewer services for it.

And the fact that so many were worried about the NDP's spending is mental when the Cons have wasted so much and have so many more plans for more spending.

FS... I have calmed down a lot. I figured the Cons would get in but not a majority. I think it's dangerous for us to not consider what has happened with leaders like this in the past. Often, these leaders seem fine in the beginning and their gradual changes not extreme... but where they end up is completely different. If we don't learn from history, we are foolish. At least to be aware that there are Gaddafis and Kim Jongs out there.

At the very least, we have a lot to do in order to prepare for the clean up.

You are right about the good that has come of it though. I think that's what sent me spinning on Monday night. Normally, I would have been cracking the champagne for the outcome of the NDP... my emotions were so polar opposite and equally extreme.

I've left the anger and frustration behind me. You are right. It doesn't do good in the long run... but it has lit a fire under me. I work with the son of one of our senators and spoke to him on Tuesday. He was in a bit of shock too and just said that everyone needed to take a few days or weeks to settle in and absorb this before hatching a plan. At that time, I'll be jumping in.

I have a whole lot to learn and plan to take my time preparing for the campaigns in 3.5 years. In what capacity, I have no idea.... but I'll be working hard to get that other 40% of people vote, that's for sure.

I just wish there were more cats running:

retrokitty wrote:

The tax cuts are not for regular folks, they are for corporations.

Tax cuts attract businesses. Businesses create jobs. Jobs create spending. Spending boosts the economy.

Trickle-down economics' benefits are indirect, but very real.

Things could be a lot worse, Cat. (Or should I address you via FS?) There's a compelling argument that those who are the most productive in society should be taxed the least not the most. A little something called an incentive.

retrokitty wrote:

If we don't learn from history, we are foolish. At least to be aware that there are Gaddafis and Kim Jongs out there.

Neither of whom were elected. Harper got 40% of the vote, which is a lot more than any British Prime Minister in recent years. What's your point, exactly?

ambler wrote:

[
Neither of whom were elected. Harper got 40% of the vote, which is a lot more than any British Prime Minister in recent years. What's your point, exactly?

That the opposing side in politics is always demonized so that you don't have to realistically assess them as human beings and can therefore feel more comfortable with enthusiastically hating them? That's sort've common to politics in most places.

Fairbairn-Sykes wrote:

ambler wrote:

[
Neither of whom were elected. Harper got 40% of the vote, which is a lot more than any British Prime Minister in recent years. What's your point, exactly?

That the opposing side in politics is always demonized so that you don't have to realistically assess them as human beings and can therefore feel more comfortable with enthusiastically hating them? That's sort've common to politics in most places.

There are distinct dangers to that approach. The self-styled liberal left in Britain, which are more authoritarian than any other sizable political group I can think of, routinely referred to Margaret Thatcher as a fascist in her time in office, which was not only untrue, but blinded people to the true nature of fascism. Cat seems to be doing the same with Harper.

ambler, I do understand incentives... but when the government is letting the rich get richer while the poor get poorer and the middle class gets poorer AND a huge deficit is being created, the incentive for the taxes is not incentive, it's to enable your friends to get more stuff.

I get that harper was elected. I'm sure you are far more familiar with this sort of flawed voting system. He would not have received a majority and likely not a minority if the system really reflected the wishes of the citizens voting.

Castro used to get elected too but it was far from a fair election.

If harper goes ahead with his plans to cut funding to political parties, he will be on his way to ensuring that the Cons are the only party for which one could vote.

He is not there yet... but I still think it's foolish to not keep an eye on his proposals and leanings. I do believe that harper would be very comfortable running a fascist state. He leans that way more and more over time. That believe and statement doesn't blind anyone to the people that did run fascists states... it just means they all started somewhere... we need to look out for it.

I admit my mistake and the mistake of many others was concentrating on the ABC (anyone but harper) campaign. Though I think his history of abuse and misuse of his position was important, so were the reasons, the many valid reasons, for voting FOR one of the other candidates. Ignatieff didn't connect with the people. Yet, I think that if most of us concentrated on learning more about him from the start to be able to consider him, instead of being determined against harper, we may have connected and the Libs may not have taken quite the beating.

I think Ignatieff's experience around the world would have done wonders for our country. It's too bad I learned that too late, as did others - even those in his party.

Fort he record, I don't hate harper as a human being; I think he's very dangerous as a politician and particularly the leader of the country.