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 The European Union - is the EU the way to fix Europe?

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Erica Ambler
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PostSubject: The European Union - is the EU the way to fix Europe?   Fri Aug 21, 2015 7:29 pm

Germans begin the looting of Greece

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WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) — To the victor goes the spoils.

The ink was not yet dry on the new European bailout accord for Greece before German companies started their plundering of Greek assets.

Per provisions of the “agreement” imposed on Greece, the Athens government awarded the German company that runs the Frankfurt Airport, Fraport, a concession to operate 14 regional airports, mostly on the islands like Mykonos and Santorini favored by tourists, for up to 50 years in the first privatization of government-owned assets demanded by the creditors.

The airport deal had been agreed upon last year by the previous Greek government and then suspended by Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras’s newly elected government this year as part of his pledge to prevent the fire sale of valuable public assets at bargain-basement prices.

The airport deal gives Fraport the right to run the facilities as its own for 1.2 billion euros over the 50 years and an annual rent of 23 million euros. The German company is also pledging to invest significantly in upgrades for the airports.

Fraport, which ironically is majority-owned by state and local governments in Germany, has cherry-picked among Greece’s network of regional airports to take over only those that make a profit. It is happy to leave the 30 other loss-making airports in the hands of a bankrupt state.

Greek Infrastructure Minister Christos Spirtzis told German television that this deal to take away the profitable airports and leave the ailing government with only those requiring subsidies “is more fitting for a colony than for an EU member state.”

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/germans-begin-the-looting-of-greece-2015-08-21
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CJB
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PostSubject: Re: The European Union - is the EU the way to fix Europe?   Sat Aug 22, 2015 12:50 pm

A monetary union without a fiscal and political union is unsustainable. That it is the direction the EU project is heading in unless, of course, there is a massive backlash at the ballot box. Though at this point I imagine it wouldn't be easy to unravel decades of integration.

As for Fritz, his innate desire to dominate continental Europe is no secret to anyone born in the last 100+ years. Thatcher was right to be skeptical about reunification.
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Hilly KCMG
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PostSubject: Re: The European Union - is the EU the way to fix Europe?   Sun Aug 23, 2015 6:41 am

Growing feeling is that the EU is increasingly pointless. Reading today as far as Germany goes, she is now becoming besieged at her southern border with migrants coming up through Austria. Karma for Greece some might say.

Didn't Churchill forsee France and Germany as dominant forces in Europe in the years after the war? Hitler did things the wrong way round. Invading with armies was a bit OTT, should've done it this way.
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Erica Ambler
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PostSubject: Re: The European Union - is the EU the way to fix Europe?   Tue Sep 01, 2015 10:43 pm

The question for Britain's EU referendum is to be changed to:

Quote :
“Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?”

The responses will now be: “Remain a member of the European Union” or: “Leave the European Union”

Much fairer. As Europe's abandonment of its borders looks more and more idiotic, maybe Britain can re-secure its own at least.
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HJackson
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PostSubject: Re: The European Union - is the EU the way to fix Europe?   Tue Sep 01, 2015 11:52 pm

Arron Banks has already blown resources on a now obsolete marketing campaign called The Know, although I'm not sure how effective it would have ever been.

This is great news for those of us who want out though. ComRes polling showed that the Yes/Remain lead dropped from 18 points to 10 when the question was changed, so all the more reason to be optimistic.

Any thoughts on the UKIP Out campaign being launched this week? I worry it will be toxic to see UKIP campaigning outside of the context of a cross-party platform including the likes of Hooey and Paterson, and I think it's a shame that Farage has been forced to do this by the cowardly wait-and-see position of the Tory so-called "Eurosceptics". Cameron's renegotation tactic isn't only an ingenious scam to fool voters once the poll comes around, but clearly a ploy to retard the operation of the sceptics in the Tory party while the Europhiles retain a free hand to campaign as soon as they wish.
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Hilly KCMG
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PostSubject: Re: The European Union - is the EU the way to fix Europe?   Fri Sep 04, 2015 5:14 am

Erica Ambler wrote:
The question for Britain's EU referendum is to be changed to:

Quote :
“Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?”

The responses will now be: “Remain a member of the European Union” or: “Leave the European Union”

Much fairer. As Europe's abandonment of its borders looks more and more idiotic, maybe Britain can re-secure its own at least.

time to shore up the Channel Tunnel.
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Erica Ambler
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PostSubject: Re: The European Union - is the EU the way to fix Europe?   Mon Sep 07, 2015 8:16 am

Michel Houellebecq, the most important living novelist in Europe - possibly the world - on the EU referendum:

Quote :
“I’m really counting on the UK to vote no, which could have a domino effect of the collapse of Europe.”

http://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/sep/06/michel-houellebecq-submission-am-i-islamophobic-probably-yes

Houellebecq - last of the independents and great freethinkers.
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Salomé
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PostSubject: Re: The European Union - is the EU the way to fix Europe?   Mon Sep 07, 2015 10:35 pm

He's an old-fashioned style French provocateur in the style of Serge Gainsbourg.

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PostSubject: Re: The European Union - is the EU the way to fix Europe?   Mon Nov 30, 2015 9:37 pm

What the EU has done to Greece is something that will be regarded with deep shame in the future.
Just read an article that some Greek women have now resorted to prostituting themselves for amounts as low as 2 euros. So basically they are literally selling their body for a loaf of bread.
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Erica Ambler
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PostSubject: Re: The European Union - is the EU the way to fix Europe?   Fri Oct 27, 2017 9:04 pm

How is the crisis in Catalonia going to affect Spain and the EU in general?

As I understand it, Catalonia wishes to remain in the EU, but independence would result in its exit.

That would create an interesting situation where a non-EU country uses the Euro as its currency.
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PostSubject: Re: The European Union - is the EU the way to fix Europe?   Fri Oct 27, 2017 9:24 pm

Catalonia will not gain independence. Puigdemont is a lunatic.
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PostSubject: Re: The European Union - is the EU the way to fix Europe?   Sat Oct 28, 2017 4:30 am

This should have never escalated to this point, unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a reasonable person on either side of this mess.
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PostSubject: Re: The European Union - is the EU the way to fix Europe?   Sat Oct 28, 2017 6:35 am

There's a similar separatist movement in Valencia, which it is trendy to support. Those I know who support it are distinctly unhinged.
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PostSubject: Re: The European Union - is the EU the way to fix Europe?   Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:02 am

The one thing they will never separate from is the EU.
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CJB
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PostSubject: Re: The European Union - is the EU the way to fix Europe?   Sat Oct 28, 2017 2:32 pm

It's an odd sort of phoney nationalism that demands secession from a state but also further integration into a supranational bureaucracy.

As with Scotland, it's the Catalan youth who are most fervently in favour of this change-for-change's-sake. Youth are a notoriously stupid subset of the population.
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PostSubject: Re: The European Union - is the EU the way to fix Europe?   Sat Oct 28, 2017 6:55 pm

It goes a bit deeper than that and is incredibly pernicious. You wouldn't believe the lengths I had to go to just to get my child into a school that teaches in Castellano rather than Valenciano, but the rest of the world has no idea it's going on outside of Barcelona. There's a strong whiff of 1930s Germany all down the eastern coast of Spain.
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Erica Ambler
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PostSubject: Re: The European Union - is the EU the way to fix Europe?   Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:25 pm

Santa wrote:
There's a strong whiff of 1930s Germany all down the eastern coast of Spain.
Blaverism and Beyond.  

As Europe's longest-surviving fascist state, I doubt Spain is inhaling the stench of 1930s Germany, but what are the nuances of regional nationalism in Catalonia and Valencia?  Is there a discriminatory element or is it mainly a movement for self-determination?  

There is an inherent contradiction in any independence movement that favours continuing membership of the EU.
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Salomé
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PostSubject: Re: The European Union - is the EU the way to fix Europe?   Sat Oct 28, 2017 11:11 pm

Erica Ambler wrote:
Santa wrote:
There's a strong whiff of 1930s Germany all down the eastern coast of Spain.
There is an inherent contradiction in any independence movement that favours continuing membership of the EU.

I'm not sure that's true. There are obvious benefits to Catalonia being outside of Spain but still inside of the EU.

Courtesy of their economy being stronger than most other Spanish regions and them being a net contributor to the national budget.

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Erica Ambler
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PostSubject: Re: The European Union - is the EU the way to fix Europe?   Sat Oct 28, 2017 11:25 pm

Salomé wrote:
There are obvious benefits to Catalonia being outside of Spain but still inside of the EU.
Self-determination isn't one of them.

If you guys wanted to be ruled by Germany you should have said so in 1939. Saved us all a shitload of trouble.
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PostSubject: Re: The European Union - is the EU the way to fix Europe?   Sat Oct 28, 2017 11:31 pm

Erica Ambler wrote:
Salomé wrote:
There are obvious benefits to Catalonia being outside of Spain but still inside of the EU.
Self-determination isn't one of them.

If you guys wanted to be ruled by Germany you should have said so in 1939. Saved us all a shitload of trouble.

How did we get all the way back to WW II when the discussion was the benefits for Catalonia of being both inside of the EU and independent of Spain?
This isn't exactly hard to understand.

The same applies to Flanders, which is why the Flemish nationalists have no intention of taking us outside of the EU either if their independence dreams are ever realized.
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Erica Ambler
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PostSubject: Re: The European Union - is the EU the way to fix Europe?   Sat Oct 28, 2017 11:37 pm

You should be used to me being a dick by now. After all, my success rate is 96%.

Perhaps I could offer you Alsace-Lorraine as an apology. Believe me, it's better than Berwick-upon-Tweed.
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PostSubject: Re: The European Union - is the EU the way to fix Europe?   Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:27 am

ROTFLMAO It's absolutely nothing to do with self-determination.

When I say 1930s Germany I'm complaining about Puigdemont and the other regionalists, not the Spanish government. I'm talking about the brain washing, the Valencian flags in infant schools, the bending of the law to impose their ridiculous language on parts of the province further south where people don't speak it and never have, the fact that these days only Valencianos can work for public institutions, that sort of thing. The fact that most people here cannot educate their child in the national language, which could be of use to them all their lives and in various parts of the world, and instead are forced to have their children growing up with a language which is only of use to them if they never travel more than about 100 miles from their home during their lifetime. There's no way I was putting up with that shit but I had to jump through some very difficult hoops and pay for the best private schooling to avoid that happening - and even so about a third of my child's lessons are taught in Valenciano wot . That was the best I could get.

However I wouldn't say it's discrimination exactly, more some very confused elitism. Imagine sitting down for dinner in a nice restaurant with a group of apparently educated, intelligent people, but occasionally as the evening goes on one of them will raise a hand and shout 'Viva Valencia!'. Most of us look at each other in embarrassment, a few slightly odd ones get a bit excited, red in the face and fidgety, and the conversation carries on as if nothing had happened. These people think they're really cool and modern. They're fucking idiots.
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PostSubject: Re: The European Union - is the EU the way to fix Europe?   Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:43 am

Santa wrote:
ROTFLMAO  It's absolutely nothing to do with self-determination.

When I say 1930s Germany I'm complaining about Puigdemont and the other regionalists, not the Spanish government. I'm talking about the brain washing, the Valencian flags in infant schools, the bending of the law to impose their ridiculous language on parts of the province further south where people don't speak it and never have, the fact that these days only Valencianos can work for public institutions, that sort of thing. The fact that most people here cannot educate their child in the national language, which could be of use to them all their lives and in various parts of the world, and instead are forced to have their children growing up with a language which is only of use to them if they never travel more than about 100 miles from their home during their lifetime. There's no way I was putting up with that shit but I had to jump through some very difficult hoops and pay for the best private schooling to avoid that happening - and even so about a third of my child's lessons are taught in Valenciano  wot . That was the best I could get.

However I wouldn't say it's discrimination exactly, more some very confused elitism. Imagine sitting down for dinner in a nice restaurant with a group of apparently educated, intelligent people, but occasionally as the evening goes on one of them will raise a hand and shout 'Viva Valencia!'. Most of us look at each other in embarrassment, a few slightly odd ones get a bit excited, red in the face and fidgety, and the conversation carries on as if nothing had happened. These people think they're really cool and modern. They're fucking idiots.

That all sounds very much like Sinn Fein's call for a draconian Irish Language Act in Northern Ireland.
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Erica Ambler
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PostSubject: Re: The European Union - is the EU the way to fix Europe?   Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:25 am

Santa wrote:
ROTFLMAO  It's absolutely nothing to do with self-determination.

When I say 1930s Germany I'm complaining about Puigdemont and the other regionalists, not the Spanish government. I'm talking about the brain washing, the Valencian flags in infant schools, the bending of the law to impose their ridiculous language on parts of the province further south where people don't speak it and never have, the fact that these days only Valencianos can work for public institutions, that sort of thing. The fact that most people here cannot educate their child in the national language, which could be of use to them all their lives and in various parts of the world, and instead are forced to have their children growing up with a language which is only of use to them if they never travel more than about 100 miles from their home during their lifetime. There's no way I was putting up with that shit but I had to jump through some very difficult hoops and pay for the best private schooling to avoid that happening - and even so about a third of my child's lessons are taught in Valenciano  wot . That was the best I could get.

However I wouldn't say it's discrimination exactly, more some very confused elitism. Imagine sitting down for dinner in a nice restaurant with a group of apparently educated, intelligent people, but occasionally as the evening goes on one of them will raise a hand and shout 'Viva Valencia!'. Most of us look at each other in embarrassment, a few slightly odd ones get a bit excited, red in the face and fidgety, and the conversation carries on as if nothing had happened. These people think they're really cool and modern. They're fucking idiots.

The modern political dilemma: how do your respect minority cultures without them taking over the agenda and threatening the integrity of the entire nation state?
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PostSubject: Re: The European Union - is the EU the way to fix Europe?   Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:27 am

Minority culture! jump

It's self-indulgent rubbish. Nothing more.
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