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 American news crew shot, killed live on air

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Jack Wade
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PostSubject: American news crew shot, killed live on air   Thu Aug 27, 2015 8:05 am

A reporter and cameraman were shot and killed during a live TV segment this morning by a disgruntled former employee of the news station. The woman being interviewed during the segment was also shot but is in stable condition.

http://gawker.com/everything-we-know-about-the-live-wdbj-shooting-and-the-1726667468

The gun violence in this country is a fucking disgrace. I don't understand what has to happen for this to stop. Based on this guy's manifesto, it is absolutely baffling that this nutcase was allowed to get a gun in the first place.
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Erica Ambler
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PostSubject: Re: American news crew shot, killed live on air   Thu Aug 27, 2015 8:17 am

Brutal gun crime is the norm in America so I'm more interested in the ramifications this particular incident has for journalism and the control of information. A man has committed murder and broadcast the footage - and his self-justification - without any state and/or corporate filter. Now the clips have gone viral.

This is the shape of things to come.
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Erica Ambler
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PostSubject: Re: American news crew shot, killed live on air   Thu Aug 27, 2015 8:26 am

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bitchcraft
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PostSubject: Re: American news crew shot, killed live on air   Thu Aug 27, 2015 10:11 am

Pretty girl, horrid way to go, the killer got off too easily, would have made him suffer.
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Makeshift Python
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PostSubject: Re: American news crew shot, killed live on air   Thu Aug 27, 2015 10:57 am

I can already hear the NRA's response to this.

"The victims should have had guns and training, they could have stopped this themselves."

Because that's what gun manufacturers want you to believe. Buy more!
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CJB
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PostSubject: Re: American news crew shot, killed live on air   Thu Aug 27, 2015 11:27 am

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Can an American here explain to me how "We don't want a standing army, so we'll call you up if Britain fucks with us again" turned into "Everybody can have an Uzi in their holster at all times."?

On my recent trip to the US, I was bemused by the presence of rifles at Walmart right next to all the kiddie sporting equipment. Our revolver-packing jeep driver in Arizona gave us a spiel about how if it wasn't for the right to arm bears, the US would now be part of Germany or Japan. We can all rest easy under Pax Americana.
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Erica Ambler
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PostSubject: Re: American news crew shot, killed live on air   Thu Aug 27, 2015 12:12 pm

But this is more than just the usual killing spree - this is murder as spectacle. There's already adaptors to couple your iPhone to your Armalite. Social media will now service the most antisocial act.
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Control
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PostSubject: Re: American news crew shot, killed live on air   Thu Aug 27, 2015 12:51 pm

Jack Wade wrote:
The gun violence in this country is a fucking disgrace. I don't understand what has to happen for this to stop.

The madness should have ended in 2012, when 20 children lost their lives.

Now it's been taken to a different level, as Ambler mentioned.

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Gravity's Silhouette
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PostSubject: Re: American news crew shot, killed live on air   Thu Aug 27, 2015 3:46 pm

Control wrote:
Jack Wade wrote:
The gun violence in this country is a fucking disgrace. I don't understand what has to happen for this to stop.

The madness should have ended in 2012, when 20 children lost their lives.

Now it's been taken to a different level, as Ambler mentioned.


U.S. Presidents have been assassinated by guns and it has made no difference. School massacres have taken place with guns and it's made no difference. U.S. culture loves all violence, not just gun violence. Hollywood exports it and makes billions off of it.

It's not going to change. This is the new norm. Get used to it. Not only is it the new norm, but I predict by Friday this won't even be a leading news story in the first 11 minutes of any of the major cable or broadcast news programs. We'll have moved on to something else on the next news cycle, and by Monday it will be totally forgotten.
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Salomé
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PostSubject: Re: American news crew shot, killed live on air   Thu Aug 27, 2015 5:22 pm

Erica Ambler wrote:
But this is more than just the usual killing spree  - this is murder as spectacle. There's already adaptors to couple your iPhone to your Armalite. Social media will now service the most antisocial act.

I am surprised it has taken this long for this to happen.
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Strangways&Quarrel
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PostSubject: Re: American news crew shot, killed live on air   Thu Aug 27, 2015 5:30 pm

CJB wrote:
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Can an American here explain to me how "We don't want a standing army, so we'll call you up if Britain fucks with us again" turned into "Everybody can have an Uzi in their holster at all times."?

As an American in the middle of backwoods Florida I can tell you a lot of the gun nuts here think by having a huge arsenal of weapons they have a chance at overthrowing their government if said government suddenly comes for their "freedoms". Essentially the conspiracy nut mentality has mixed with the red scare mentality of the fifties but now the red menace in their eyes is the U.S. government and if the government dares places in any sort of regulation on weapons it's seen as an act of high treason. I wish I was making this up or pulling it from my rear but this comes from actually talking to these people and hearing some of the stuff that is said on talk radio stations around here and nationally.
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CJB
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PostSubject: Re: American news crew shot, killed live on air   Thu Aug 27, 2015 6:26 pm

Would I be correct in saying that the gun-nuttery really took off once the NRA got enough money to start buying politicians in the last few decades? Because, and I could be mistaken, it seems like it's only relatively recently that firearms have become some sort of sacred totem in American culture. Surely Teddy and Ike never wanked over guns like contemporary Republicans.
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Makeshift Python
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PostSubject: Re: American news crew shot, killed live on air   Thu Aug 27, 2015 6:42 pm

That and the gun manufacturers. That's why we have politicians that are quicker to decide on going war instead of get into negotiations. If they tell you they're not happy with the Iran deal, it's really because their gun overlords that donate money to their campaigns are not happy.
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Salomé
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PostSubject: Re: American news crew shot, killed live on air   Thu Aug 27, 2015 7:13 pm

Strangways&Quarrel wrote:
CJB wrote:
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Can an American here explain to me how "We don't want a standing army, so we'll call you up if Britain fucks with us again" turned into "Everybody can have an Uzi in their holster at all times."?

As an American in the middle of backwoods Florida I can tell you a lot of the gun nuts here think by having a huge arsenal of weapons they have a chance at overthrowing their government if said government suddenly comes for their "freedoms". Essentially the conspiracy nut mentality has mixed with the red scare mentality of the fifties but now the red menace in their eyes is the U.S. government and if the government dares places in any sort of regulation on weapons it's seen as an act of high treason. I wish I was making this up or pulling it from my rear but this comes from actually talking to these people and hearing some of the stuff that is said on talk radio stations around here and nationally.

So they don't realize that if the government does come for them in 2015, it will likely be with a drone. ROTFLMAO
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Makeshift Python
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PostSubject: Re: American news crew shot, killed live on air   Thu Aug 27, 2015 7:25 pm

Of course they don't, because they're idiots and they're just buying into the bullshit gun manufacturers want them to believe, "yes, of course you can overthrow the government if it came down to it! Buy more guns, they might not be as high tech as what we provide the government you don't trust, but you can trust us!"
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Erica Ambler
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PostSubject: Re: American news crew shot, killed live on air   Thu Aug 27, 2015 7:49 pm

I think a lot of things are being conflated in this thread. As Gravity says, gun violence itself is nothing new though journalists killing journalists is a novel twist.

Salomé wrote:
So they don't realize that if the government does come for them in 2015, it will likely be with a drone. ROTFLMAO

Drones are indiscriminate killers and - whatever the dismissive views of other people here - survivalists are citizens as well. Many have children too.

Plus I can't see any government using drones against citizens live-casting the attack to the world. States deploying hi-tech weaponry against the electorate never plays well.

Hard to imagine the ATF attempting a Waco style-takedown these days either. The State killing 76 people to save them from themselves seems a bit excessive.
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Jack Wade
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PostSubject: Re: American news crew shot, killed live on air   Thu Aug 27, 2015 10:35 pm

CJB wrote:
Would I be correct in saying that the gun-nuttery really took off once the NRA got enough money to start buying politicians in the last few decades? Because, and I could be mistaken, it seems like it's only relatively recently that firearms have become some sort of sacred totem in American culture. Surely Teddy and Ike never wanked over guns like contemporary Republicans.
There's been a growing rift between the right and left on gun control because of the rash of unjust massacres like this dating back to Sandy Hook, in which the fuckwits in the NRA paraded themselves out to say Sandy Hook wouldn't have happened if there were armed guards in schools.

With these things happening quite often these days — there's hardly a week that goes by without news of another innocent person being murdered in public fashion — it's become a contentious debate between the hillbillies who fuck their guns at night and the libs who want the Second Amendment repealed. Nothing's going to change, though. Jim Bob needs his AK-47 to shoot vermin, and he'll be damned if Obama takes his guns away.
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Erica Ambler
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PostSubject: Re: American news crew shot, killed live on air   Thu Aug 27, 2015 11:10 pm

It's not that simple.

Anyone with a basic grasp of history has cause to fear the State. The great genocides of the 20th century were perpetuated by governments against their citizens: Cambodia, China, Germany, the USSR ... Even when there was an ethnic aspect to the mass killings, as in Armenia and Rwanda, they were still politically led.

Much of America's problem is cultural. Most households in Switzerland own a gun yet gun crime is very low. America needs to examine itself. Though I still think the social media aspect is what's most interesting about this particular killing.
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Jack Wade
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PostSubject: Re: American news crew shot, killed live on air   Thu Aug 27, 2015 11:18 pm

Erica Ambler wrote:
It's not that simple.
Sure. And it is cultural, though I think issuing partial blame to Hollywood as someone in this thread has is preposterous — lots of countries have access to the same Hollywood films that glorify violence and they don't have this issue. But the fact that Vester Flanagan could buy a gun is a big problem. That needs to be way more tightly regulated.
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PostSubject: Re: American news crew shot, killed live on air   Sat Aug 29, 2015 1:12 am

An article on Flanagan's "life of listing grievances" from the NY Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/28/us/vester-lee-flanagan-grievances-homicidal-explosion.html

Flanagan's bitching and complaining goes back to his high school days, where he claimed he was "attacked" by white females and black males.

In 2013, he was ordered to seek counseling for his work-related issues. Instead of doing that, he killed his two cats and buried them in the woods. His refusal resulted in the loss of his job.

Shame that the order from his employer couldn't have been a red flag on his records when it came to purchasing a weapon. But, who knows when or where he bought it. In South Carolina (where he worked at one point), it wouldn't have been hard to obtain one.
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Gravity's Silhouette
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PostSubject: Re: American news crew shot, killed live on air   Sat Aug 29, 2015 2:04 am

Jack Wade wrote:
Erica Ambler wrote:
It's not that simple.
Sure. And it is cultural, though I think issuing partial blame to Hollywood as someone in this thread has is preposterous — lots of countries have access to the same Hollywood films that glorify violence and they don't have this issue. But the fact that Vester Flanagan could buy a gun is a big problem. That needs to be way more tightly regulated.

Not blaming Hollywood. A steady stream of their product, however, particularly at a young age and on an impressionable mind, whether it's movies, music, tv, games, etc...does lead to desensitization to the sex and violence; Hollywood is a major influence on culture. If they weren't, they wouldn't bother fund-raising for political candidates, or putting out their own insipid PSA's with their own cadre of douche-bag celebrities.

We also live in a culture that tells people 'if it feels good, do it' and "be true to yourself". But what happens if doing what feels good to you comes at the painful expense of others? What happens if being "yourself" means you are an awful individual that is dangerous to society? We don't need more guns; we probably need less. But by the time the gun has been picked up, the war for the person's heart and mind has already been lost. As a society we're trying to deal with the symptoms of a dysfunctional culture rather than underlying problems that cause people to seek guns in the first place.

We live in a culture that is prideful and has an exaggerated sense of their own self-importance. They feel they have a right to be angry, to kill others, and then share that pain with the rest of the world by posting it to social media. America's culture has, over time, rotted to the depths of depravity that it now finds itself in.

And lastly, when you try to build a society that cannot even allow it's courts to have THE TEN COMMANDMENTS on the front lawn, these are the inevitable results of a populace that, at every turn, is being encouraged to give no thought to a higher power, Creator, deity, God, etc....to give no thought to the moral implications of every action that we take.

This shooting is just one of many more to come, with each one becoming progressively worse.
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CJB
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PostSubject: Re: American news crew shot, killed live on air   Sat Aug 29, 2015 12:58 pm

Apparently the doofus thought "swinging" and "field" were racist terms. Well done, SJWs.
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Jack Wade
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PostSubject: Re: American news crew shot, killed live on air   Mon Aug 31, 2015 6:57 am

Gravity's Silhouette wrote:
And lastly, when you try to build a society that cannot even allow it's courts to have THE TEN COMMANDMENTS on the front lawn, these are the inevitable results of a populace that, at every turn, is being encouraged to give no thought to a higher power, Creator, deity, God, etc....to give no thought to the moral implications of every action that we take.
Agreed. God should have turned Vester Flanagan's gun into a Bible.
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