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 Did John Gardner really get help to write Cold/Cold Fall (1996) (or not as the case may be)?

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PostSubject: Did John Gardner really get help to write Cold/Cold Fall (1996) (or not as the case may be)?   Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:49 am



Ah, this is a bit of a strange one, but please bear with me. smile

ACE, of CBn Forums:

Quote :
The first few Gardners are great. I even like COLD because Gardner (et al who helped write it) got a chance to experiment with structure.

Link to the quote above in context: http://debrief.commanderbond.net/topic/63165-top-10-continuation-novels-poll-added/page-3 (Quote above is located at post # 63 in the link)

The above post was made by the well-respected CBn member ACE (as Ajay Chowdhury he is co-author of the superlative and highly-recommended Bond film history tome Some Kind of Hero, pub. 2015) on 10 April 2015. ACE is therefore not in my opinion not someone who reveals such details lightly. I assume he has some literary Bond insider knowledge here. As you can see, it intimated that John Gardner had help with writing his final James Bond continuation novel Cold (which was titled Cold Fall in the US) by one or more persons unnamed and unknown who apparently helped him. ‘Et al’ of course means ‘and others’ in Latin and is a common scholarly abbreviation. It indicates that more than one person may have been involved in helping Mr Gardner with Cold.

Now I have been interested in this post since it first appeared on the (now) old CBn Forums. Obviously, it was the first time I had ever heard anything of this and so I thought I would create this thread now to see if we can tease out any more of the details. I think that the veracity of such a statement must be tested fairly on an open forum. After all, why make a statement of doubt as to true authorship if you can't stand over it? That is only right and just in my view.

We do know that in Mr Gardner was in rather poor health around the time of Brokenclaw in 1990 when he had prostate cancer and that later on around the time of Cold in 1996 he was suffering from oesophical cancer, both of which he was thankfully cured of in the US where he lived during that period. So, bearing these medical facts in mind, could Mr Gardner have needed help in finishing his final Bond novel, Cold, and if so in what form did this help materialise, beyond that of the general editorial help he would have received on any of his Bond novels or his own non-Bond works of fiction? Could his health troubles have been the reason for the help he apparently received in the writing of Cold? What form did the alleged help take? These are the key questions and my essential reason for creating this thread.

I wonder if ACE (if he happens to be reading now or at a future time) or anyone else here who may know more details about this could possibly elaborate on the quote above as I find it most fascinating? A CBn fellow member (and friend) Major Tallon was equally fascinated by this revelation by ACE and was also keen to learn more about it. I'm sure he too would like answers on this issue. I asked ACE to tell us more about this revelation. Sadly, I was stonewalled. My post showing this there has sadly been recently deleted by the CBn mods. So, again sadly, no further information was forthcoming at that time [April 2015].  As I was still so intrigued by his almost throwaway revelation, I then of course asked ACE in a private message about this but he said he did not want to comment on it any further than what he had already said on the CBn Forums thread quoted from above. I'm not at all sure why this was however. As there was no follow-up reply of any kind from ACE beyond his initial revelatory post citing more details or corroborating evidence I have created this thread.

By the way, in case you are wondering, I did create a thread on this very subject over on the new CBn Forums: 'Quarterdeck' but was banned for the trouble for the heinous crime of being the returning previously banned member SILHOUETTE MAN. I assume this was the real reason and not that I had uncovered some sort of literary Bond conspiracy(?!) Oh well, you have to at least try, don't you? As a writer, I detest being edited. The heirs of SMERSH have long memories it seems...

I hope someone out there can help me with this important query. Thank you for indulging my Gardner Bond obsession by reading! I really want the truth to come out - and I hope that John Gardner did indeed write all of Cold himself and only got the usual editorial help he always did on his Bond novels. :)

So, let's try to put this one to bed, once and for all. thumbsup



Last edited by Secret Files on Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:10 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Did John Gardner really get help to write Cold/Cold Fall (1996) (or not as the case may be)?   Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:09 pm

"By the way, in case you are wondering, I did create a thread on this very subject over on the new CBn Forums: 'Quarterdeck' but was banned for the trouble for the heinous crime of being the returning previously banned member SILHOUETTE MAN."


I wasn't wondering. I told them it was you, Brian. They appear to have believed me.
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PostSubject: Re: Did John Gardner really get help to write Cold/Cold Fall (1996) (or not as the case may be)?   Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:33 pm

Why do you keep getting banned?

And why do you keep returning to forums after they clearly don't want you there?
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PostSubject: Re: Did John Gardner really get help to write Cold/Cold Fall (1996) (or not as the case may be)?   Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:08 pm

Well, thank you, Flush. I didn't expect to last too long after creating that thread anyway. Thought that they'd twig on that it was me due to the Gardner subject matter.

FieldsMan, I keep getting banned as I'm permanently banned from there. So if they know it's me, I'm out. That is CBn policy on all bans, rather than it being anything that I post or do on their forum per se. The truth is I'm thinking of turning my back on all Bond forums as I feel I've contributed nearly all that I can and have had some bad experiences of them in the past.

I returned there simply because it was where ACE made the statement. It was evidently a mistake to return there again but I won't return there ever again. It was a 'Last Chance Saloon' attempt to ask the question. It didn't work out.  Hope that explains things.
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PostSubject: Re: Did John Gardner really get help to write Cold/Cold Fall (1996) (or not as the case may be)?   Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:21 pm

Flush, why does he keep getting banned? I don't remember the ins and outs. 

Two sides to every story, and all that.
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PostSubject: Re: Did John Gardner really get help to write Cold/Cold Fall (1996) (or not as the case may be)?   Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:28 pm

I don't know, I'm not part of Commanderbond. At a guess it's multiple accounts, spam rubbish about the empty blog and being aggressive when found out. I don't know.

What I do know is that my commanderbond contact tells me that Brian has since this latest ban tried to sign up onto both old and new sites under a Hugo Drax avatar so the traditional proclamation of "I won't return there ever again" is his usual downright lie.
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PostSubject: Re: Did John Gardner really get help to write Cold/Cold Fall (1996) (or not as the case may be)?   Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:50 pm

I suppose he didn't tell you that I deleted that account myself?

Nice to know you've nothing better to do and that you only post here when I do. Pretty sad.

I won't be returning to CBn ever again so please do pass that on to your 'contact'. Posting about my blog wouldn't be very bright on CBn as that would be a giveaway. I merely returned to post that thread as that was where ACE made the post.

I've also not been aggressive when found out as I don't really care and expect to be banned eventually. As I say, I've tried to make this thread there and that was all I wanted to do.

Please don't let the truth get in the way of a good story though.

That's all folks.
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PostSubject: Re: Did John Gardner really get help to write Cold/Cold Fall (1996) (or not as the case may be)?   Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:25 pm

No, he didn't, as he I think is a she and no, you didn't.

The account you created posted more than that thing about Gardner. You are dishonest.

Yes, it's sad, but I am very friendly to you over at MI6, which makes you happy. You won't guess who I am there in a million years. Which is still sooner than you writing anything.
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PostSubject: Re: Did John Gardner really get help to write Cold/Cold Fall (1996) (or not as the case may be)?   Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:33 pm

Since when had Swanny_Swanson anything to so with Hugo Drax? I know I had more than that post by Swanny, that wasn't the account I was referring to. Squire_Drax was the one I deleted myself. Check with them over on CBn.

We'll see about me writing anything in a million years and I have a fair idea who you are actually. I see you've just logged off over there in fact. It's not that hard to work out in fact. As I said above I'm about to give up on Bond forums anyhow. I'm sure that will make you happy as it seems to be your main mission in life.

Your're very friendly to me over on MI6? Now who's being dishonest? There's daggers in men's smiles.
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PostSubject: Re: Did John Gardner really get help to write Cold/Cold Fall (1996) (or not as the case may be)?   Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:52 pm

Indeed, but we have such good fun over there, and we're so pleasant to one another, I would be sad to see you go. sad sad
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PostSubject: Re: Did John Gardner really get help to write Cold/Cold Fall (1996) (or not as the case may be)?   Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:57 pm

Just like you were sad to see me gone from CBn I imagine?

It was only fake pleasantries on your part of course. And I'm sure you and many others would be glad to see me gone from there. It was fun while it lasted, you could say.
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PostSubject: Re: Did John Gardner really get help to write Cold/Cold Fall (1996) (or not as the case may be)?   Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:12 am

Genuine pleasantries.

Communication here, though, might be fake.
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PostSubject: Re: Did John Gardner really get help to write Cold/Cold Fall (1996) (or not as the case may be)?   Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:17 am

Oh, well maybe I misjudged you? Like Stromberg.

It might be fake here (though I doubt it very much), but the CBn ban was for real I fear:

Account suspended until January 10, 2045: Formerly known as SILHOUETTE MAN and permanently banned from CBn

https://quarterdeck.commanderbond.net/u/swanny_swanson/summary
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PostSubject: Re: Did John Gardner really get help to write Cold/Cold Fall (1996) (or not as the case may be)?   Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:23 am

Shame the pair of you only post to lay into each other.
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PostSubject: Re: Did John Gardner really get help to write Cold/Cold Fall (1996) (or not as the case may be)?   Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:25 am

I have no problem with Flush. I will carry on by PM if he wishes. Don't want to derail my thread any further.
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PostSubject: Re: Did John Gardner really get help to write Cold/Cold Fall (1996) (or not as the case may be)?   Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:39 am

That's fine, we communicate on very friendly terms on MI6.

Sorry to have derailed this vital discussion, and distracting from the other responses.
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PostSubject: Re: Did John Gardner really get help to write Cold/Cold Fall (1996) (or not as the case may be)?   Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:33 am

Think we'd all prefer it if petty arguments could be kept off the 'public' forum areas, thanks.
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PostSubject: Re: Did John Gardner really get help to write Cold/Cold Fall (1996) (or not as the case may be)?   Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:20 am

Flush wrote:
That's fine, we communicate on very friendly terms on MI6.

Sorry to have derailed this vital discussion, and distracting from the other responses.

I only wish we could get on better here.

Anyway, if anyone has any further information on this topic I'd be glad to hear from you.

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PostSubject: Re: Did John Gardner really get help to write Cold/Cold Fall (1996) (or not as the case may be)?   Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:44 am

Alas, this thread hasn't been much of a success. Oh well.
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PostSubject: Re: Did John Gardner really get help to write Cold/Cold Fall (1996) (or not as the case may be)?   Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:18 pm

I don't know what may have happened but Cold as it is is such an incredibly odd and weird read that it does feel unfinished or incomplete.
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PostSubject: Re: Did John Gardner really get help to write Cold/Cold Fall (1996) (or not as the case may be)?   Tue Jan 23, 2018 9:29 am

Haven't read it in a couple of years. My to-read pile doesn't warrant a re-read anytime soon. I suspect by the time of Cold(Fall), the magic had somewhat worn out.
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