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 Very Flemingesque Elements in the Bond Films (without a corresponding Literary Bond source)?

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lachesis
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PostSubject: Very Flemingesque Elements in the Bond Films (without a corresponding Literary Bond source)?   Very Flemingesque Elements in the Bond Films (without a corresponding Literary Bond source)? EmptySun Oct 01, 2017 8:53 pm

So, in this thread I want us to discuss what is says in the thread title up there. Namely, which scenes or elements, or lines of dialogue (or whatever you like), do you feel are very Flemingesque in nature but yet which do not have a corresponding source in the Fleming literary Bond canon? Of Fleming, but not Fleming, if you will.

So, in other words, things that the assembled writers of the Bond films, from the classic Bond Richard Maibaum era onward to the current rebooted Bond era of Purvis and Wade, have thought up all by themselves without adapting or otherwise relying on the works of Ian Fleming.

So, I think that's all clear enough. I'd love to hear your choices for this.

In the meantime, I will leave you with just one of mine to illustrate the point, that I thought of when the idea for this thread came to me idly earlier this year.

It comes from the pen of Tom Mankiewicz/Richard Maibaum. The film is The Man with the Golden Gun (1974) and I think it's a brilliantly written scene, worthy of Fleming but obviously not written by him in the source novel. It's a good encapsulation of what James Bond is and represents - "When I kill, it's on the specific orders of my government. And those I kill are themselves killers." That's a great encapsulation of James Bond's raison d'être all neatly gift-wrapped up in one short scene. It's powerful writing, and at the same time, the most Flemingesque thing not to come from Fleming's literary Bond. It's therefore, in my view, the perfect scene to illustrate and encapsulate the reasoning behind this thread. Here's the scene:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_dAKu_cNS8

I may have a few more to add of my own later, but for now I'd love to hear your choices! smile


Last edited by Secret Files on Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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lachesis
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PostSubject: Re: Very Flemingesque Elements in the Bond Films (without a corresponding Literary Bond source)?   Very Flemingesque Elements in the Bond Films (without a corresponding Literary Bond source)? EmptyTue Oct 03, 2017 11:54 am

This is a tricky one since often Fleming is paraphrased in later films but the further you stray from the 60's Bonds the more that paraphrasing actually ends up as pretty much the antithesis of what I consider Fleming..until the ultimate point of getting Casino Royale which even when it uses the words of the source they end up with a tone and emphasis that is anything but imho.

I'll have to give some thought to actual lines of dialogue, all too often I mix or combine quotes across films.

When it comes to more general elements they lie mostly with Dalton who at times embodied the literal Bond for me, even when saying or doing some questionable things (conversely its only ever Connery or Dalton I can ever picture when reading the novels). Dalton's Performance aside I think the Death of Corrine in Moonraker is very 'Fleming'...maybe it was from one of the novels but I can't recall it precisely. Necros attacks in Living daylights also has that quirky inventiveness you get from the better novels. Equally although it's not really used well the character bio for Renard in TWINE has that sense of Fleming authenticity behind it.
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PostSubject: Re: Very Flemingesque Elements in the Bond Films (without a corresponding Literary Bond source)?   Very Flemingesque Elements in the Bond Films (without a corresponding Literary Bond source)? EmptyTue Oct 03, 2017 7:40 pm

Indeed, I can't think off the top of my head and when I do I see Dalton blowing smoke as Koskov speaks at the MI6 safe house. Even smoking a cigarette Dalton seemed to capture Fleming's Bond.

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PostSubject: Re: Very Flemingesque Elements in the Bond Films (without a corresponding Literary Bond source)?   Very Flemingesque Elements in the Bond Films (without a corresponding Literary Bond source)? EmptyWed Oct 04, 2017 8:33 am

Bond meeting Severine at the casino in Macau.
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PostSubject: Re: Very Flemingesque Elements in the Bond Films (without a corresponding Literary Bond source)?   Very Flemingesque Elements in the Bond Films (without a corresponding Literary Bond source)? EmptyWed Oct 04, 2017 8:51 am

CJB wrote:
Bond meeting Severine at the casino in Macau.

Severine as a character popped into mind as soon as I saw this thread. It's as if she was torn directly from Fleming's pages. The tragic backstory, the enigma, the trust in Bond, and her death scene are very evocative of the source material. Elektra similarly echoes both categories of Fleming's twisted and tragic characters. 

The Dr Kaufman scene feels positively Flemingesque. Not only is the character himself as bizarre as, say, Blofeld in YOLT, but the set up rings true, also. Setting the scene against tomorrow's news report, not to mention the fact that Carver has specifically excluded James Bond's name from the report (but highlighting Paris' identity) suggests Carver had an underlying suspicion that Bond may very well make it out alive, leaving Kaufman to be the "unidentified man". That dynamic I find to be rather reminiscent of Fleming.

The scenes with Raoul in DAD, too...
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PostSubject: Re: Very Flemingesque Elements in the Bond Films (without a corresponding Literary Bond source)?   Very Flemingesque Elements in the Bond Films (without a corresponding Literary Bond source)? EmptyMon Jan 01, 2018 8:38 pm

I consider Raoul Silva from SF to be highly Fleminesque. He's a perfect Bond villain. He brags, he overestimates himself, and most of all, he's designed as mirror as well as rival for Bond. Funnily enough they are not rivals for a love interest, but for M. I think one of the most hurting moments for Bond ever was Silva's "I used to be her favourite". You see how Bond does not move a muscle, but that makes you think all the more that inwardly, he's flinching.
He is definitely Bond's match, which makes him a challenging opponent. I mean, how often does Bond face down a former MI 6 agent as able as himself (or, even MORE able?! - Bond lacks Silva's hacking abilities, after all). But they are very much alike, in their determination and vanity.
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PostSubject: Re: Very Flemingesque Elements in the Bond Films (without a corresponding Literary Bond source)?   Very Flemingesque Elements in the Bond Films (without a corresponding Literary Bond source)? EmptyMon Jan 01, 2018 11:52 pm

He is by far and away Craig's best Bond villain, no doubt, but not for all the reasons you mention. Bond isn't sentimental, and I don't think he hurts at all when Silva says "I used to be her favourite". I'd say Bond is disinterested or, at the very least, quietly amused by such a statement. 

As for being Flemingesque, I'd agree in that there is a flashy bizarre persona masking a twisted past rooted in espionage.
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PostSubject: Re: Very Flemingesque Elements in the Bond Films (without a corresponding Literary Bond source)?   Very Flemingesque Elements in the Bond Films (without a corresponding Literary Bond source)? EmptyTue Jan 02, 2018 9:41 pm

I've never seen it that way, but you're totally right. I've just never seen it this way before, that Bond was not sentimental at all...
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PostSubject: Re: Very Flemingesque Elements in the Bond Films (without a corresponding Literary Bond source)?   Very Flemingesque Elements in the Bond Films (without a corresponding Literary Bond source)? Empty

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