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Erica Ambler
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PostSubject: Re: Hollywoodies.   Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:33 pm

Erica Ambler wrote:


Salomé wrote:
I believe that's from her follow-up statement in which she was doing damage control.

Do you agree with Lena Dunham that all women should be believed regardless of what they say? Until recently that would be regarded as evidence of mental illness not wisdom.
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Santa
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PostSubject: Re: Hollywoodies.   Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:46 am

Yeah, what about those who are lying? What happened to 'innocent until...'?
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Salomé
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PostSubject: Re: Hollywoodies.   Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:20 am

Erica Ambler wrote:
Erica Ambler wrote:


Salomé wrote:
I believe that's from her follow-up statement in which she was doing damage control.

Do you agree with Lena Dunham that all women should be believed regardless of what they say? Until recently that would be regarded as evidence of mental illness not wisdom.

Believed, no, heard yes. Those two are not quite the same thing.

My objection to Lena Dunhum in this case is her hypocrisy of saying one thing and then doing another once it becomes inconvenient to uphold the standards she applies to others.
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FieldsMan
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PostSubject: Re: Hollywoodies.   Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:40 pm



I don't know John Oliver but he's getting his knickers in a twist when he - as he admits - isn't the victim. The fact he says that he's not happy with Hoffman's response because it doesn't seem like the sort of response the incident warrants is very telling to the obsequious attitude the media has to this topic. Hoffman handled himself very well here and don't think he should have been persecuted like this.
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CJB
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PostSubject: Re: Hollywoodies.   Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:08 pm

John Oliver is a sanctimonious outrage merchant. Picture a less funny Jon Stewart after he's swallowed a turn-of-the-century London chimney sweep. Ironically, he'd likely be out a job if Trump wasn't around to give him weekly hyperventilation material.
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Erica Ambler
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PostSubject: Re: Hollywoodies.   Sat Dec 23, 2017 1:04 am



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Erica Ambler
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PostSubject: Re: Hollywoodies.   Sat Dec 23, 2017 1:09 am

And here's almost the same sketch recycled a few years later:

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Erica Ambler
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PostSubject: Re: Hollywoodies.   Sun Dec 24, 2017 1:35 pm

Erica Ambler wrote:
Salomé wrote:
I can't imagine that this kind of behavior is the rule and not the exception for Hollywood producers/executives.

Kroll has a +US$1bn turnover, of which Weinstein represents a tiny part, yet Media and Entertainment is listed as one of Kroll's largest client sectors. Due dilligence will be much of that, but so will other investigations. Its website puts it rather well:

Quote :
Our experts help organizations with their critical fact finding when they need to conduct internal investigations or to examine allegations of wrongdoing. Whether or not actual misconduct is discovered, such inquiries, and their aftermath, can pose serious risks to companies and their stakeholders, damaging their reputation, disrupting their business operations and exposing them to government scrutiny, as well as to potential criminal, civil and regulatory liability. Kroll's investigative services and expertise have helped clients successfully resolve investigations promptly and with minimal business disruption.

Here's a similar case from the current Bannon profile in Vanity Fair:

Quote :
I was researching a biography of the late Fox News Chairman Roger Ailes. A legendary paranoiac, Ailes waged an elaborate campaign to discredit my book that included having me followed by private detectives and commissioning a 400-page dossier about my life.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/12/bannon-for-president-trump-kushner-ivanka
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Erica Ambler
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PostSubject: Re: Hollywoodies.   Mon Jan 01, 2018 3:40 am

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FieldsMan
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PostSubject: Re: Hollywoodies.   Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:56 am

Paul Haggis is the latest accused. Can't say I'm surprised. Anyone with his level of self-righteousness can't be trusted.

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2018/jan/05/paul-haggis-sexual-misconduct-allegations-crash-director
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Erica Ambler
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PostSubject: Re: Hollywoodies.   Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:20 am

FieldsMan wrote:
Paul Haggis is the latest accused. Can't say I'm surprised. Anyone with his level of self-righteousness can't be trusted.

Didn't you name yourself after one of his characters?
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PostSubject: Re: Hollywoodies.   Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:34 am

More about Gemma than anything else.
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Salomé
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PostSubject: Re: Hollywoodies.   Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:41 pm

Aah Paul Haggis. His biggest crime to date might be "Crash" and the Academy awarded him the Oscar for that. ROTFLMAO
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PostSubject: Re: Hollywoodies.   Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:16 pm

Casino Royale takes the cake in my opinion.

But Crash was as bad as Battle of the Sexes.
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Erica Ambler
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PostSubject: Re: Hollywoodies.   Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:36 pm

What say you, good people? GUILTY!

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Salomé
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PostSubject: Re: Hollywoodies.   Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:39 pm

Erica Ambler wrote:
What say you, good people? GUILTY!


Of making terrible movies? Yes!

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PostSubject: Re: Hollywoodies.   Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:03 am

I'm perpetually surprised at the clout that Lena Dunham seems to have behind the scenes.
Now she more or less appears to have forced Tessa Thompson into a public apology after Thompson accused Dunham of only showing up to the #MeToo photo op and not doing much else.
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Erica Ambler
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PostSubject: Re: Hollywoodies.   Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:42 pm

A “totalitarian” climate that unfairly punishes men for flirting “insistently or clumsily,” infantilizes women and undermines sexual freedom.

Quote :
Iconic French actress Catherine Deneuve is among 100 women who have signed a public letter blaming the #MeToo anti-harassment movement for creating a “totalitarian” climate that unfairly punishes men for flirting “insistently or clumsily,” infantilizes women and undermines sexual freedom.

The letter says that #MeToo, the hashtag that emerged in the wake of the Harvey Weinstein scandal, has led to a campaign of public denunciation and summary justice. The victims have been “men who are sanctioned in their work, pushed to resign, etc., when their only wrongdoing was to touch a knee, try to steal a kiss, speak about intimate things during a professional dinner or send messages that are sexually loaded to a woman who wasn’t attracted to them,” the letter says.

“Rape is a crime. But flirting with insistently or clumsily isn’t a crime, and chivalry is not a machismo aggression,” the letter says, adding that men should have the “indispensable freedom to offend and bother” women and that the #MeToo movement encouraged “puritanism.”

The letter was published Tuesday in French newspaper Le Monde. It sparked its own backlash from readers, including from Asia Argento, one of the women who accused Weinstein of sexual assault and helped bring down the Hollywood mogul. “Deneuve and other women tell the world how their interiorized misogyny has lobotomized them to the point of no return,” Argento tweeted.

Deneuve is the only major French film star to sign the letter. Other signatories include writer and psychologist Sarah Chiche, arts critic Catherine Millet, actress and writer Catherine Robbe-Grillet, author Peggy Sastre, and journalist Abnousse Shalmani.

Referring to France’s equivalent of #MeToo, #balancetonporc (or “squeal on your pig”), the letter contends that the “fever to send the ‘pigs’ to the slaughterhouse is far from helping women to become autonomous” and instead “serves the interests of the enemies of sexual freedom, religious extremists, the worst reactionaries and those who deem, in the name of a conception of goodness and Victorian morality, that women are children with adult faces who want to be protected.”

http://variety.com/2018/film/news/catherine-deneuve-letter-blaming-metoo-puritanism-unfair-punishment-of-men-1202658163/
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PostSubject: Re: Hollywoodies.   Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:59 pm

On this score, the attitudes on the Continent are more sensible than those found in the Anglosphere with its never ending, quasi-Puritanical moral panics; notwithstanding Macaroni's curious crusade against wolf-whistling.
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Salomé
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PostSubject: Re: Hollywoodies.   Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:05 pm

The problem with both sides of this debate is the conflating of a wide array of behavior, going from rude remarks, over unwanted touching all the way to sexual assault and rape. That unfortunate aspect of it makes the #MeToo camp look hysterical at times and the anti-Metoo camp as borderline rape apologists. Which I don't believe was the intention of either of those sides.

It would be nice if everything wasn't lumped together in one big pile, but seems like that horse has already bolted the stables.

"Squeal on your pig" is a very poor translation of "balance ton porc", BTW.
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Erica Ambler
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PostSubject: Re: Hollywoodies.   Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:06 pm

Salomé wrote:
The problem with both sides of this debate is the conflating of a wide array of behavior, going from rude remarks, over unwanted touching all the way to sexual assault and rape.

Except rape is - and has long been - criminalised. Things are better summed up by the old quote:

“conservatives can hear five octaves of music, but liberals respond to just two, within which they have become particularly discerning.”
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PostSubject: Re: Hollywoodies.   Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:24 pm

Erica Ambler wrote:
Salomé wrote:
The problem with both sides of this debate is the conflating of a wide array of behavior, going from rude remarks, over unwanted touching all the way to sexual assault and rape.

Except rape is - and has long been - criminalised. Things are better summed up by the old quote:

“conservatives can hear five octaves of music, but liberals respond to just two, within which they have become particularly discerning.”

If Weinstein could have been easily stopped had one of those women reported his crime to the police, I very much doubt he could have thrived in his predatory behavior for several decades.
The reality isn't quite as simple as that.
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PostSubject: Re: Hollywoodies.   Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:33 pm

Salomé wrote:
If Weinstein could have been easily stopped had one of those women reported his crime to the police, I very much doubt he could have thrived in his predatory behavior for several decades.
The reality isn't quite as simple as that.

You and I know this stopped being about Weinstein a long time ago. This is part of the general attack on what badly educated women/sheep call 'toxic masculinity'.
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Salomé
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PostSubject: Re: Hollywoodies.   Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:24 pm

Erica Ambler wrote:
Salomé wrote:
If Weinstein could have been easily stopped had one of those women reported his crime to the police, I very much doubt he could have thrived in his predatory behavior for several decades.
The reality isn't quite as simple as that.

You and I know this stopped being about Weinstein a long time ago. This is part of the general attack on what badly educated women/sheep call 'toxic masculinity'.

It depends on which accusations you are talking about. Weinstein isn't the only one accused of rape.

Anyway, in an ideal world, none of this has to be done via (social) media. In the same tack, in an ideal world, none of these men get away with their behavior for several decades.

I also still have to be convinced how severe the consequences will be for the accused. I keep coming back to the fact that Mel Gibson was nominated for an Oscar last year and how unthinkable that seemed not too long ago.
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PostSubject: Re: Hollywoodies.   Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:18 pm

Salomé wrote:
in an ideal world, none of these men get away with their behavior for several decades.

In an an ideal world, no one would have their lives and reputations destroyed unless they'd been convicted of a crime.
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