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Salomé
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PostSubject: Re: Hollywoodies.   Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:27 am

FieldsMan wrote:
Gravity's Silhouette wrote:

Alec Baldwin has already begun storm preparations. His agents have told him to get out there and start talking about how he has changed and been transformed and to admit he bullied women. So clearly there's something out there they are afraid is about to his.

I did find this odd. Don't know if it's a publicity stunt, a blanket apology or a statement he made because of some whacky fear-of-missing-out predisposition. 

I'm waiting for some Johnny Depp and Mickey Rourke allegations to pop up.

Didn't he already have his domestic violence episode?
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PostSubject: Re: Hollywoodies.   Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:33 am

Allegedly. But I'm waiting for the sexual assault allegations from way back when.
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PostSubject: Re: Hollywoodies.   Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:25 am

Salomé wrote:
Didn't he already have his domestic violence episode?
Was he beaten by Amber Heard?
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PostSubject: Re: Hollywoodies.   Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:58 am

Erica Ambler wrote:
Salomé wrote:
Didn't he already have his domestic violence episode?
Was he beaten by Amber Heard?

I don't recall the details, but didn't Heard's camp release a video that didn't paint him in a great light?
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PostSubject: Re: Hollywoodies.   Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:05 am

Salomé wrote:
Erica Ambler wrote:
Salomé wrote:
Didn't he already have his domestic violence episode?
Was he beaten by Amber Heard?

I don't recall the details, but didn't Heard's camp release a video that didn't paint him in a great light?

I've no idea. Lots of batshit crazy stories about Depp, though mostly detailing his extravagance rather than cruelty. Bruce Robinson has penned a few.
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PostSubject: Re: Hollywoodies.   Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:52 am

Salomé wrote:
I have to admit that I hadn't heard any of the Bryan Singer rumors until this avalanche of accusations started.

Singer and some others on the set of APT PUPIL were sued for the way treated minors who were part of the shower scene. The whole thing seemed shady; minors who had not signed nudity waivers with their parents were then told to take off their clothes and they weren't allowed to use the flesh color sock(?)/briefs. Forced to stay on set nude. Parents not allowed near the set (though I wouldn't want my parents watching my nude scene anyway). Accusations of Singer and others leering at the male teens nude.

Utlimately the suit went away, but if you Google Singer's name you'll find a lot of pictures with him holding young men, grabbing young men..some really creepy stuff.

Then Singer got sued again 3 years ago, but that suit got dropped in part because of the instability of the accuser.

New accusations have come out today, but hadn't had chance to read them.

Singer may have had nothing but legal encounters with everyone of these guys. They could all very well be 18+. However, when you like them as young as he does, chances are you're going to get someone who claims to be over 18 but isn't, and that's where some of his legal problems may come into play. Happened to Rob Lowe back in the late 80's. Met a woman at a nightclub in Atlanta. Got in with a fake id, went back to Rob's hotel, videotaped the encounter, took off with videotape, and Rob got arrested. Turns out she was only 16.
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Salomé
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PostSubject: Re: Hollywoodies.   Tue Nov 07, 2017 7:41 pm

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Erica Ambler
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PostSubject: Re: Hollywoodies.   Tue Nov 07, 2017 7:56 pm

Occasionally people get a glimpse of how the world really runs and it scares them.

I'm more interested in Weinstein's former aides and their roles in furthering his alleged activities. Much seems routine - planned - rather than opportunistic.
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PostSubject: Re: Hollywoodies.   Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:06 pm

Erica Ambler wrote:
Occasionally people get a glimpse of how the world really runs and it scares them.

I'm more interested in Weinstein's former aides and their roles in furthering his alleged activities. Much seems routine - planned - rather than opportunistic.

I can't imagine that this kind of behavior is the rule and not the exception for Hollywood producers/executives.

Not the sexual predatory stuff, but having an entire support network in place to keep your victims in check.
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PostSubject: Re: Hollywoodies.   Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:16 pm

Salomé wrote:
I can't imagine that this kind of behavior is the rule and not the exception for Hollywood producers/executives.

Kroll has a +US$1bn turnover, of which Weinstein represents a tiny part, yet Media and Entertainment is listed as one of Kroll's largest client sectors. Due dilligence will be much of that, but so will other investigations. Its website puts it rather well:

Quote :
Our experts help organizations with their critical fact finding when they need to conduct internal investigations or to examine allegations of wrongdoing. Whether or not actual misconduct is discovered, such inquiries, and their aftermath, can pose serious risks to companies and their stakeholders, damaging their reputation, disrupting their business operations and exposing them to government scrutiny, as well as to potential criminal, civil and regulatory liability. Kroll's investigative services and expertise have helped clients successfully resolve investigations promptly and with minimal business disruption.
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PostSubject: Re: Hollywoodies.   Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:44 pm

So basically they are responsible for the modern version of the tasks attributed to studio security back in the Silver and Golden Ages of Hollywood?
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PostSubject: Re: Hollywoodies.   Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:59 pm

Possibly. Just been reading Marilyn's shelved autobiography (actually written by Ben Hecht) in which she describes Hollywood as 'an overcrowded brothel, a merry-go-round with beds for horses' and you're struck by how little has changed. My favourite passage relates to how someone tried to recruit her to fuck a 71-year-old millionaire to death. laugh

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PostSubject: Re: Hollywoodies.   Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:26 pm

Erica Ambler wrote:
Possibly. Just been reading Marilyn's shelved autobiography (actually written by Ben Hecht) in which she describes Hollywood as 'an overcrowded brothel, a merry-go-round with beds for horses' and you're struck by how little has changed. My favourite passage relates to how someone tried to recruit her to fuck a 71-year-old millionaire to death.  laugh


Eh? What was in it for the person who was trying to recruit her for that? ROTFLMAO

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PostSubject: Re: Hollywoodies.   Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:32 pm

Salomé wrote:
Eh? What was in it for the person who was trying to recruit her for that? ROTFLMAO

50/50 split of the inheritance. I can think of much worse ways to go ...

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=ObiR-HRoqeMC&pg=PA50&dq=Mr+Lazlo+took+my+hand+monroe&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjywISupqzXAhURM8AKHTaOA8EQ6AEIKDAA#v=onepage&q&f=false
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PostSubject: Re: Hollywoodies.   Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:49 pm

Erica Ambler wrote:
Salomé wrote:
Eh? What was in it for the person who was trying to recruit her for that? ROTFLMAO

50/50 split of the inheritance. I can think of much worse ways to go ...

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=ObiR-HRoqeMC&pg=PA50&dq=Mr+Lazlo+took+my+hand+monroe&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjywISupqzXAhURM8AKHTaOA8EQ6AEIKDAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

As I recall, this was more or less turned into a scene in the 1990s Michael J. Fox vehicle "Greedy", with Kirk Douglas in the role of Mr. Lazlo's unnamed millionaire and Olivia d'Abo in the Monroe role.
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PostSubject: Re: Hollywoodies.   Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:05 am

Interesting, I'd not even heard of Greedy until now (back then my film-quality threshold was a lot higher), but perhaps Ben Hecht should have got a posthumous screenwriter's credit. Though with Notorious on his resume, that would have been a bit of a comedown. As an aside, the last screenplay Hecht worked on was an adaptation of Casino Royale:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/film/jamesbond/8345119/Casino-Royale-discovering-the-lost-script.html
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PostSubject: Re: Hollywoodies.   Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:32 am

Hecht's CR sounds light years better than the '06 film. However, I don't understand why Bond needed to be directly responsible for Le Chiffre trying to win back his lost funds. This version is admittedly much more palatable. 

I do wonder what would have happened post DAD if the CR had previously been made. 

Interesting that a Hamburg car chase, driving around the Swiss Alps, an eye-patched villain and the car crushing scene all turned up in later Bond films.
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PostSubject: Re: Hollywoodies.   Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:45 pm

The sexual reformation has opened up a schism between women and men
Lara Prendergast

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Nell Minow, an American film critic, recently described how in 2010 she had interviewed the Friends actor David Schwimmer. When the noise in the restaurant grew too loud, he asked her whether she might like to move to a room upstairs with him, and if so, would she like a chaperone present. She praised him for this behaviour. ‘He understood what it is like to have to be constantly on the alert and he wanted to make sure I understood I was safe.’

When I read Minow’s story, my reaction was to think what a patronising arse Schwimmer must be. A woman journalist shouldn’t need a chaperone when she is doing her job. But, in the fallout from the Harvey Weinstein allegations, it has become clear that, for many women, safety is starting to trump liberty. We are moving towards a chaperone culture, in which women, delicate lambs that we are, must be protected at all times.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/11/the-sexual-reformation-has-opened-up-a-schism-between-women-and-men/


The consequence of this new sexual counter-revolution? No sex at all
Douglas Murray

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Modern feminism ... is in fact barely disguised misandry. This ‘feminism’ isn’t producing guides for helping men. It is producing manifestos for torturing them.

If we are to enter this strange new puritanical era, then at least let us not enter it silently. Allow it to be admitted that many women as well as men are happy to use their looks and wiles when these work to their advantage. It is not always victim-blaming, but a mere statement of fact that attractive people attract unusual amounts of attention and that not all find this a disadvantage. Actors and models of both sexes — as much as parliamentary assistants — know this and so does everybody else. And unless we decide that only a super-class of beautiful people are allowed to seek sex, we should accept that people in the lower to middling ranges of attractiveness should be allowed the odd punt too.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/11/the-consequence-of-this-new-sexual-counter-revolution-no-sex-at-all/
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PostSubject: Re: Hollywoodies.   Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:15 am

Hmmm.

Of course all of this would not be an issue if the likes of Weinstein, Toback, ... had been dealt with by the proper authorities ages ago.

I agree that the idea of chaperones is idiotic, but the tenure of that piece seems to be that women are overreacting.

In the case of actual serial sexual predators, they obviously are not.

Quote :
Earlier this month, the writer Helen Rosner published a guide to ‘20 things men can do to support women, beyond just literally ceasing to sexually harass us’. It included suggestions for men such as ‘seek out women to be your heroes’, ‘talk less. At all times’ and consume ‘ethical’ porn made by women, queer people and people of colour. I wonder what Luther would have made of that.

Nonsense like this is of course idiotic and will do nothing to really make any one woman safer. But that's not what I have interpreted the backlash against (in some cases) decades-long unpunished and unchecked predatory behavior that included serial sexual assault and rape to be about. The motives of (most of) the women who have come forward seems to be to have the men who have wronged them finally face some sort of consequence for their actions.
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PostSubject: Re: Hollywoodies.   Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:17 am

On the subject of women's-only carriages on trains, which is mentioned in passing in that piece, I have read several radical feminist women who are vehemently against the idea.
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PostSubject: Re: Hollywoodies.   Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:18 am

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The old feminist trope says that it is not a woman’s responsibility to worry about her own safety; it is a man’s job not to harass her. Yet women are clearly taking increasingly extreme measures to protect themselves because a small number of vocal campaigners are telling us that all our worst fears about men are true — and we must take action. And if this means reinstating old-fashioned segregation at the expense of hard-won freedoms, so be it.

To be honest, this is perhaps the thing I most disagree with in the piece.
Women do not need campaigners, almost every adult women (and quite a few non-adult ones) will have lived experience that suggests they are not always safe in the company of men.
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PostSubject: Re: Hollywoodies.   Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:24 am

The new morality patrol
Melanie Phillips

Quote :
Masculinity is largely a social construct. Femininity is anchored in a reproductive system that produces babies from a woman’s body. Without such incontrovertible proof, men need to be certain that their children are indeed theirs. So there used to be a sexual bargain: that a woman would provide a man with monogamous sex, in return for which guarantee of paternity the man would stick around to help bring up the child he had fathered.

That bargain was dumped when women decided that the male of the species was eminently dispensable, that it was the right of women to bring up children on their own and that men were of use merely as sperm donors, walking wallets and occasional au pairs.

They were routinely and generally denigrated, defamed and demeaned, stripped of the breadwinner role which was so fundamental to their sense of male identity. Masculinity was deemed intrinsically violent and men denounced as innate abusers of power; femininity was intrinsically socially responsible while women, as men’s historic victims, were held to be incapable of abusing power themselves.

So now we see women turning themselves into a kind of feminist morality patrol complete with informers, secret information networks, public denunciation, unverifiable allegations and a righteous determination to destroy all those who have transgressed the rules women have remade in their own image.

One small step, it would seem, from Sodom to Salem.

http://www.melaniephillips.com/new-morality-patrol/
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PostSubject: Re: Hollywoodies.   Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:18 am

That seems a bit hysterical as a point of view in response to the denunciation of life-long predators like Harvey Weinstein or James Toback.

It takes an Evel Knievel worthy leap of logic to go from "perhaps serial sexual predators should be held accountable for their actions?" to "fuck all men!".
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PostSubject: Re: Hollywoodies.   Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:52 am

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/robert-knepper-accused-sexual-assault-by-veteran-costume-designer-1055914

Another day, another accusation.
Though in this specific case, the woman claims that the Weinstein revelations are not the catalyst for her telling this story after all these years.

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PostSubject: Re: Hollywoodies.   Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:56 am

Salomé wrote:
It takes an Evel Knievel worthy leap of logic to go from "perhaps serial sexual predators should be held accountable for their actions?" to "fuck all men!".

Laws already exist to punish criminal behaviour, though I agree with you that all men should be fucked - that's all most of us want, really. Melanie Phillips' point is:

Quote :
Sexual attacks or harassment are being conflated with minor incidents of lewd and crass behaviour. A man placing his hand on a woman’s knee is being denounced in the same breath as rape.
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