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 How would one choose the best Bond girl and villain?

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FieldsMan
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PostSubject: Re: How would one choose the best Bond girl and villain?   Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:33 pm

You'll come to a higher appreciation of DAD. Sitting around #15 on my list nowadays. And you 100% correct in that a lot of disregard for Brosnan's era was bandwagon nonsense after Casino Royale. As for me, Craig has a 25% success rate (SF); Brosnan's is closer to 100%. 

The villains are also superior in Brosnan's era, save for perhaps Graves (sorry Grav). Silva has been the only stand out, but I am a little partial to Almaric's Greene (one of the few highlights of QOS). And is Hinx all that different to Stamper? At least Stamper has a better name and the film makers make use of his German heritage for a film partially set in Hamburg. And Gotz Otto seems to relish the role - I feel there's a genuine psychosis to Stamper. As for Pryce as Carver, he owns the role. As good as Hopkins is, I'm not sure he'd have the same pizazz that Pryce brings. Hopkins would be more suited to Trevelyan, though maybe that's because of his role as Zorro's mentor makes it easier to imagine. But your right in that Pryce has some of the best dialogue in the series. It's criminal to think that Feirstein hasn't been called back after TWINE. 

I also would say that DN and FRWL are very much a part of the series. GF is credited as being the film to cement the formula, but all the elements are palpable in DN and capitalised on for FRWL, and it's arguably tighter (and more effective) in Young's films.
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CJB
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PostSubject: Re: How would one choose the best Bond girl and villain?   Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:42 pm

As I recall, the vibe on Keeping the British Erect was:

2004: Brosnan is the best Bond ever and must return but otherwise we should get that Clive actor who kinda looks like him to do his best impersonation.

2005: Eew who the fuck is this blond Craig Daniels fucker? Bring back Brosnan or get Clive Brosnan/Pierce Owen!

2006: The sun shines out Daniel Craig's perfectly formed arse, Brosnan sucked and I never liked him.

A prescient reminder of the dangers of mob rule as we mark the hundredth anniversary of Bolshevism
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Erica Ambler
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PostSubject: Re: How would one choose the best Bond girl and villain?   Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:57 pm

CJB wrote:
Daniel Craig's perfectly formed arse, Brosnan sucked

That sounds like the sort of slash fiction the late-lamented Rave used to write.
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Salomé
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PostSubject: Re: How would one choose the best Bond girl and villain?   Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:31 am

Daniel Craig should have quit whilst he was ahead (after "Skyfall").

At this point his legacy is one great Bond film, one passable Bond film and two bad Bond films.

I very much doubt that Bond 25, which he is obviously only doing for the money, will tip the scales back in his favor.
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Erica Ambler
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PostSubject: Re: How would one choose the best Bond girl and villain?   Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:57 am

Salomé wrote:
Daniel Craig [snip] legacy is one great Bond film

Is that Skyfall or Casino Royale? I don't recall you being particularly impressed with either.
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Salomé
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PostSubject: Re: How would one choose the best Bond girl and villain?   Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:43 am

Erica Ambler wrote:
Salomé wrote:
Daniel Craig [snip] legacy is one great Bond film

Is that Skyfall or Casino Royale? I don't recall you being particularly impressed with either.

I think Skyfall fell just outside of my top five when I last ranked them all.

I think you liked Skyfall more than I did but it's certainly the best DC Bond.

Casino Royale has many issues but at least it has something resembling a coherent screenplay.
Which cannot be said of either QoS or Spectre.
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ironpony
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PostSubject: Re: How would one choose the best Bond girl and villain?   Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:48 am

Well to compare Brosnan movies to Craigs...  CR and TWINE are in my top five.  TWINE just might edge it at #6.  GE and SK are not in my top five but 10 for sure.  TND and DAD are in between #11 to #14.   SP is in my bottom 10 and QOS is my most hated Bond movie of all.  So Craig has two that are lower than Brosnan's and only one (Casino Royale), that are higher than Brosnan's.

I also like Tobi Stephens as a villain and thought he was a lot of fun, though not as fun as the other Brosnan main villains, but still fun.  As for the Bond actor's portrayals Brosnan is actually my second favorite Bond, and Craig 3rd.  But I suppose a lot of fans feel that is blasphemy.

It's funny you mention Anthony Hopkins for Trevelyan cause I read he was actually the original choice for Trevelyan.  Is that why you mentioned him or did you just think so, coincidentally?

As for picking a favorite villain, I think it would come down between Renard and Carver, with Renard taking the slight edge, cause even though Price gives a better performance, Renard has the more interesting back story, and character arc.
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FieldsMan
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PostSubject: Re: How would one choose the best Bond girl and villain?   Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:17 am

ironpony wrote:
It's funny you mention Anthony Hopkins for Trevelyan cause I read he was actually the original choice for Trevelyan.  Is that why you mentioned him or did you just think so, coincidentally?

There's a method to my madness. Hopkins was the original choice for Augustus Trevelyan when the character was Bond's mentor, not a contemporary. When they aged him down to a fellow 00 in subsequent drafts, Bean was chosen. Having read the GE draft with Augustus Trevelyan, you could certainly see Hopkins in the part. 

Salome wrote:
Casino Royale has many issues but at least it has something resembling a coherent screenplay.
Which cannot be said of either QoS or Spectre.

Given the time spent on CR and SP, it's unforgivable the material they churned out. Especially CR, considering the accessible source material. I don't think it has a coherent screenplay. It's confused at best.
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Hilly KCMG
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PostSubject: Re: How would one choose the best Bond girl and villain?   Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:25 am

CJB wrote:
As I recall, the vibe on Keeping the British Erect was:

2004: Brosnan is the best Bond ever and must return but otherwise we should get that Clive actor who kinda looks like him to do his best impersonation.

2005: Eew who the fuck is this blond Craig Daniels fucker? Bring back Brosnan or get Clive Brosnan/Pierce Owen!

2006: The sun shines out Daniel Craig's perfectly formed arse, Brosnan sucked and I never liked him.

A prescient reminder of the dangers of mob rule as we mark the hundredth anniversary of Bolshevism

truer words have never been typed, CJB. Me-thinks I was as guilty as anyone vis a vis Lazenby. eek
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Salomé
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PostSubject: Re: How would one choose the best Bond girl and villain?   Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:27 am

I think my opinion of Daniel Craig never much changed.
I deem him to be a good actor who looks nothing like how I envision James Bond.
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Erica Ambler
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PostSubject: Re: How would one choose the best Bond girl and villain?   Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:30 am

Salomé wrote:
nothing like how I envision James Bond.

So who would you like to straddle? Sir Idris?
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Salomé
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PostSubject: Re: How would one choose the best Bond girl and villain?   Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:34 am

Erica Ambler wrote:
Salomé wrote:
nothing like how I envision James Bond.

So who would you like to straddle? Sir Idris?

Daniel Craig is too blond and too short for the role.

And the group of women who would be happy to straddle Idris Elba would include almost all heterosexual women, I would guess.
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ironpony
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PostSubject: Re: How would one choose the best Bond girl and villain?   Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:12 am

So is the reason why DAD is so hated is cause of the new Craig movies, are was DAD considered the worst by most back when it came out?
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PostSubject: Re: How would one choose the best Bond girl and villain?   Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:57 am

I believe DAD was popular when it was released, though I think there was still criticism for the more outlandish scenes of the film.
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PostSubject: Re: How would one choose the best Bond girl and villain?   Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:14 am

ironpony wrote:
So is the reason why DAD is so hated is cause of the new Craig movies, are was DAD considered the worst by most back when it came out?

on the old MI6 forum I recall someone decked out a poster of DAD full of quotes from forum members over it's bad-ness.

Yes, it was that bad.
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ironpony
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PostSubject: Re: How would one choose the best Bond girl and villain?   Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:28 pm

But I don't see what is so outlandish about DAD, when all these other outlandish Bond movies such as Moonraker and Octopussy, get a free pass in comparison.
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PostSubject: Re: How would one choose the best Bond girl and villain?   Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:27 pm

They don't get a free pass amongst the general public (Octopussy to a lesser extent) and Craig fanboys.
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ironpony
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PostSubject: Re: How would one choose the best Bond girl and villain?   Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:45 pm

Oh okay, but there are a lot of Moonraker and Octopussy fans out there it seems by comparison.
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PostSubject: Re: How would one choose the best Bond girl and villain?   Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:16 pm

I'm sure if internet fora existed in the days of Moonraker it'd be roundly criticised for aping Star Wars and whatnot. We tend to now give Moonraker a pass because, for many of us, it was before our time; a relic of an era where you could smoke on planes and chortle at the thought of female doctors, let alone ones named Competentfellatio.
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PostSubject: Re: How would one choose the best Bond girl and villain?   Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:26 pm

Just a hunch, but I believe the entertainment pendulum is swinging back to some of the more escapist types of adventures we saw in the 80's. Whether it's with IT, STRANGER THINGS or THOR: RAGNAROK, I think people are going to be (if they aren't already are) simplicity in their entertainment. Fewer politics, less morbidity, a hero that is black and white, and less interested in philosophizing about the areas in between. We're seeing this as Warner's has decided to reshoot JUSTICE LEAGUE and inject some fun back into the series.

If EON would hurry up they could get ahead of this movement, but more likely will finally jump on the bandwagon long since it left the station.
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Erica Ambler
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PostSubject: Re: How would one choose the best Bond girl and villain?   Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:51 pm

Gravity's Silhouette wrote:
If EON would hurry up they could get ahead of this movement, but more likely will finally jump on the bandwagon long since it left the station.
Do bandwagons leave stations?

Gruppenführer von Ambler, language Nazi
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PostSubject: Re: How would one choose the best Bond girl and villain?   Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:40 pm

Oh I thought that Bond was the movie franchise that went into new territory and that it's the superhero movies, that have been doing the same old thing and need to catch up to Bond.  But maybe I'm wrong.
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PostSubject: Re: How would one choose the best Bond girl and villain?   Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:47 pm

Bond hasn't been a trendsetter since the 60s. LALD capitalised on the blaxploitation films, TMWTGG on the kung fu films, MR on Star Wars, OP/AVTAK/TLD on Indiana Jones, LTK on the 80s action films, DAD on the action films of the early 00s, CR/QOS on Bourne and SF and SP supposedly on the Batman films. I've heard comparisons between GE and Jurassic Park and TND for the 90s action films. 

Perhaps a case can be made for TSLWM, FYEO and TWINE, though even TSLWM could have been inspired by Jaws.
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PostSubject: Re: How would one choose the best Bond girl and villain?   Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:37 am

Salomé wrote:
Erica Ambler wrote:
Salomé wrote:
nothing like how I envision James Bond.

So who would you like to straddle? Sir Idris?

Daniel Craig is too blond and too short for the role.

And the group of women who would be happy to straddle Idris Elba would include almost all heterosexual women, I would guess.

Hubba hubba. I would straddle him until I could straddle no more, but I still don't want him to be Bond.

And I didn't decided to start hating Brosnan because it became trendy to do so. I hated him all along because he was so fucking cheesy. He's a Milk Tray advert, or a Ferrero Rocher. He's one of those fluffy, horseshoe shaped mat things people used to put around the bottom of the toilet in the 80s, or Michael Douglas dad dancing in Romancing the Stone. He's a heart shaped ornament made out of twigs people hang on their walls, or a chalk on slate effect 'in this house we do Disney' picture. Ugh. He's completely naff and always was, and I don't think he's doing it in an 'ooh look, I'm trendily ironic, or ironically trendy' way.

Carry on.
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Salomé
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PostSubject: Re: How would one choose the best Bond girl and villain?   Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:21 am

I did like Pierce Brosnan as the young assassin in "The Long Good Friday". But that role is barely representative for the rest of his career.
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