These forums may contain mild adult content and are not associated with EON, Sony or any other companies and do not reflect their views.
 
HomeHome  RegisterRegister  Log in  

Share | 
 

 How would one choose the best Bond girl and villain?

Go down 
Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3
AuthorMessage
Gravity's Silhouette
Chief Executive
Chief Executive
avatar

Posts : 3916
Member Since : 2011-04-16
Location : Inside my safe space

PostSubject: Re: How would one choose the best Bond girl and villain?   Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:29 pm

FieldsMan wrote:
Bond hasn't been a trendsetter since the 60s. LALD capitalised on the blaxploitation films, TMWTGG on the kung fu films, MR on Star Wars, OP/AVTAK/TLD on Indiana Jones, LTK on the 80s action films, DAD on the action films of the early 00s, CR/QOS on Bourne and SF and SP supposedly on the Batman films. I've heard comparisons between GE and Jurassic Park and TND for the 90s action films. 

Perhaps a case can be made for TSLWM, FYEO and TWINE, though even TSLWM could have been inspired by Jaws.

Agree with some of that. LALD, TMWTGG, MR and OP were all influenced by the movies you mentioned. Don't see any connection between AVTALK/TLD and Indiana Jones, though maybe a slight connection could be made betwen TLD and Rambo, and the one Rambo film that looked most like TLD didn't even come out until after TLD.

CR and QOS were so blatantly a rip off of Bourne that it's a surprise no one from Bourne sued. CR has enough originality and Bondishness about it that it is elevated among the other Bourne-like films, but QOS is such a bad Bourne imitation that Matt Damon should either have starred in it or gotten a lawyer and asked for royalties.


Brosnan films did not seem to steal from anyone else. At some point an action film is just an action film; there is a limitation to the genre.
Back to top Go down
Blunt Instrument
Chief Executive
Chief Executive
avatar

Posts : 3594
Member Since : 2011-03-20
Location : Belfast, Northern Ireland

PostSubject: Re: How would one choose the best Bond girl and villain?   Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:59 pm

It's possible the stuff in the mine in View owes a debt to similar scenes in Temple Of Doom. And the 'plane running out of fuel leading to the heroes having to bail out' bit also looks like it influenced same in TLD.
Back to top Go down
ironpony
Experienced Correspondent
Experienced Correspondent
avatar

Posts : 220
Member Since : 2017-11-10

PostSubject: Re: How would one choose the best Bond girl and villain?   Fri Nov 17, 2017 5:55 pm

There is one thing. Some of the Bond girl lists in this post have Electra King on them. Does she count as a Bond girl, or would she more properly belong on the best villain list?
Back to top Go down
FieldsMan
Chief Executive
Chief Executive
avatar

Posts : 4723
Member Since : 2010-05-13
Location : The Alpine Room

PostSubject: Re: How would one choose the best Bond girl and villain?   Sat Nov 18, 2017 5:57 am

As said countless times, ironpony, there are no hard and fast rules about any of this. If it's included in Bond girl lists it's because some think - myself included - she "properly" belongs to that list.
Back to top Go down
Gravity's Silhouette
Chief Executive
Chief Executive
avatar

Posts : 3916
Member Since : 2011-04-16
Location : Inside my safe space

PostSubject: Re: How would one choose the best Bond girl and villain?   Sat Nov 18, 2017 6:49 pm

Blunt Instrument wrote:
It's possible the stuff in the mine in View owes a debt to similar scenes in Temple Of Doom. And the 'plane running out of fuel leading to the heroes having to bail out' bit also looks like it influenced same in TLD.    

I think it's just a coincidence there. I guess it's possible TOD influenced AVTAK, but I believe AVTAK was so far into pre-production at that point that nothing TOD was doing could have influenced the script or the set. David Yip is about the only connection between the two I really see.

As far as TOD and TLD being connected...script originally called for Bond to try and land the cargo plane on an aircraft carrier and then bail out as the plane teetered on the edge. Sounds like that would have been hard to film. I prefer the scene we have now, though I have some issues with it: namely, how come the plane was 50 feet off the ground when Bond and Kara eject, but then seems to climb hundreds of feet before slamming into a mountain? And why are the propellers seen working after Bond said they'd begun to fail?
Back to top Go down
Blunt Instrument
Chief Executive
Chief Executive
avatar

Posts : 3594
Member Since : 2011-03-20
Location : Belfast, Northern Ireland

PostSubject: Re: How would one choose the best Bond girl and villain?   Sat Nov 18, 2017 10:38 pm

You never know, the model-work might just have been able to pull off the plane landing on (and falling off) the aircraft carrier (the bridge destruction still looks pretty good, 30 years on).

Guess we'll just have to put those last couple of things you mention down to continuity errors/plot-holes.
Back to top Go down
Salomé
Chief Executive
Chief Executive
avatar

Posts : 2859
Member Since : 2011-03-17

PostSubject: Re: How would one choose the best Bond girl and villain?   Sat Nov 18, 2017 11:54 pm

Blunt Instrument wrote:
You never know, the model-work might just have been able to pull off the plane landing on (and falling off) the aircraft carrier (the bridge destruction still looks pretty good, 30 years on).

Guess we'll just have to put those last couple of things you mention down to continuity errors/plot-holes.    

Positive proof that "Marvel made a superhero team-up movie and it made a lot of money" is not a solid basis for creating a good or even half-decent film.
Back to top Go down
Blunt Instrument
Chief Executive
Chief Executive
avatar

Posts : 3594
Member Since : 2011-03-20
Location : Belfast, Northern Ireland

PostSubject: Re: How would one choose the best Bond girl and villain?   Sun Nov 19, 2017 3:17 am

Erm, I take it you meant to post this in the 'Last Movie You Watched' thread in response to the Justice League review quote that I posted?
Back to top Go down
Salomé
Chief Executive
Chief Executive
avatar

Posts : 2859
Member Since : 2011-03-17

PostSubject: Re: How would one choose the best Bond girl and villain?   Sun Nov 19, 2017 5:07 am

Blunt Instrument wrote:
Erm, I take it you meant to post this in the 'Last Movie You Watched' thread in response to the Justice League review quote that I posted?

Yeah, but I could I have sworn I was actually replying to that post. Odd.
Back to top Go down
ironpony
Experienced Correspondent
Experienced Correspondent
avatar

Posts : 220
Member Since : 2017-11-10

PostSubject: Re: How would one choose the best Bond girl and villain?   Sat Jan 20, 2018 6:47 pm

Well after thinking about it, perhaps instead of Renard, my favorite Bond villain might be Donald Pleasance's Blofeld.

However, I don't really like YOLT as a series entry that much, so do in order to pick the best villain, do you have to like the movie they are in? Or can you have the best villain be in an overall bad entry, that doesn't make the best use out of him either?
Back to top Go down
hegottheboot
Experienced Correspondent
Experienced Correspondent
avatar

Posts : 468
Member Since : 2012-01-09
Location : TN, USA

PostSubject: Re: How would one choose the best Bond girl and villain?   Sun Jan 21, 2018 3:25 pm

Nice to see some side discussion of how everything suddenly became "Brosnan era sucked". Back in the day everyone loved the films and you couldn't have simple discussion about their highs and very obvious lows and inherent weaknesses. All of a sudden post CR 06, it was the exact opposite much as discussion the Dalton and Moore eras during Brosnan's run was not going to go well. As a side note I adore Brosnan as an actor and hate to see him do crud. He really has it in him and could have been able to do so much more as 007 if allowed.

Now back to topic. This is classic fan talk I've always loved doing. For villains I think you have to separate into physical menace and overall scheme. Fleming's villains did this well even if the scheme wasn't world destruction etc.

But gosh I still love them all. For example: I love and adore the wicked silliness of Gray's Blofeld and quote him daily. I love what Julian Glover does with Kristatos and wish FYEO had more to do with the character. I can't get enough of Steven Berkoff doing a Soviet riff on Buck Turgidson as Gen. Orlov. So I can't really rank them.

But here are a few points I'd make
1. Dr. No-the first, the most direct, Bond's equal in most every way and absolutely sublime. The good Doctor is a real threat to 007 and you feel it through the entire film despite his appearance coming very late. The character in the film is very Hitchcockian in construction and if something isn't broke don't fix it.
Klebb is perfectly realized from the novel.
Goldfinger is a great villain for his ability to keep good humored and maintain his dastardly scheming with a healthy dose of mania underneath.
Emilio Largo-the only villain who could have feasibly killed Connery bare handed. I've always felt his physical presence and dubbed voice create a stronger characterization than the thinness of the scripted action.
YOLT Blofeld is iconic but lacks depth. OHMSS Blofeld is good but never quite reaches the levels of villainy previously seen. DAF Blofeld is an intricate blend of camp and world domination.
Dr. Kananga is almost a Bond type himself on the surface in that he has a perceived image that the real person wants to emulate. Yaphet Kotto's tenacity makes this work beautifully.
Lee's Scaramanga is simply put perhaps his finest acting onscreen.
Stromberg and Drax serve the same purpose and are both IMO underwritten. Both are played by great actors and both serve the story yet of the two Drax is the standout for the cold way Lonsdale plays him and for how he gets some of the best lines ever.
Kristatos is a great character given short shrift like Columbo is.
Orlov and Kamal Khan being in the same film hurts each of their credibility. I like Louis Jourdan as a sort of evil Bond-type but its a very weak character that should have been excised or revised. Berkoff steals the film.
I feel Walken as Zorin is his best work and a brilliantly multifaceted characterization that deserves far more credit. And all this for what started as a Goldfinger clone.
Koskov-Whitaker. Most underrated in the series. No large domination schemes but totally believable with just enough grandiosity to be really entertaining Bond villains.
Sanchez is made by Davi's portrayal which makes him downright likeable despite his evil actions. however this has always made me less of a fan because you start to like the character for his morals and less as a villain.
Alec-great actor in what should have been an epic confrontation that never quite works.
Carver-DELICIOUS! The best thing in all of TND and he nails it save for the lame-ish death scene and the kung-fu bit.
Renard-Elektra: amazing characters that make TWINE interesting. Yet again they aren't developed to what should be a satisfying arc in the beginnings of the curse of Purvis/Wade.
Moon/Graves-Moon was fine but the instant they adapted the transformed villain MR plot it didn't work for me.
Back to top Go down
FieldsMan
Chief Executive
Chief Executive
avatar

Posts : 4723
Member Since : 2010-05-13
Location : The Alpine Room

PostSubject: Re: How would one choose the best Bond girl and villain?   Sun Jan 21, 2018 4:38 pm

ironpony wrote:
Well after thinking about it, perhaps instead of Renard, my favorite Bond villain might be Donald Pleasance's Blofeld.

However, I don't really like YOLT as a series entry that much, so do in order to pick the best villain, do you have to like the movie they are in?  Or can you have the best villain be in an overall bad entry, that doesn't make the best use out of him either?

As has been said countless times, there really is no criteria. It's up to you. Tomorrow Never Dies, From Russia With Love, Goldeneye, Thunderball and On Her Majesty's Secret Service are my favourite Bond films, but Max Zorin is probably my favourite villain in the series. That said, I do think Klebb and Carver round out my top three. And given my high ranking of Largo, I prefer at least ten other villains to him. 

hegottheboot wrote:
Nice to see some side discussion of how everything suddenly became "Brosnan era sucked". Back in the day everyone loved the films and you couldn't have simple discussion about their highs and very obvious lows and inherent weaknesses. All of a sudden post CR 06, it was the exact opposite much as discussion the Dalton and Moore eras during Brosnan's run was not going to go well. As a side note I adore Brosnan as an actor and hate to see him do crud. He really has it in him and could have been able to do so much more as 007 if allowed. 

Now back to topic. This is classic fan talk I've always loved doing. For villains I think you have to separate into physical menace and overall scheme. Fleming's villains did this well even if the scheme wasn't world destruction etc.

But gosh I still love them all. For example: I love and adore the wicked silliness of Gray's Blofeld and quote him daily. I love what Julian Glover does with Kristatos and wish FYEO had more to do with the character. I can't get enough of Steven Berkoff doing a Soviet riff on Buck Turgidson as Gen. Orlov. So I can't really rank them.

But here are a few points I'd make
1. Dr. No-the first, the most direct, Bond's equal in most every way and absolutely sublime. The good Doctor is a real threat to 007 and you feel it through the entire film despite his appearance coming very late. The character in the film is very Hitchcockian in construction and if something isn't broke don't fix it. 
Klebb is perfectly realized from the novel.
Goldfinger is a great villain for his ability to keep good humored and maintain his dastardly scheming with a healthy dose of mania underneath.
Emilio Largo-the only villain who could have feasibly killed Connery bare handed. I've always felt his physical presence and dubbed voice create a stronger characterization than the thinness of the scripted action.
YOLT Blofeld is iconic but lacks depth. OHMSS Blofeld is good but never quite reaches the levels of villainy previously seen. DAF Blofeld is an intricate blend of camp and world domination.
Dr. Kananga is almost a Bond type himself on the surface in that he has a perceived image that the real person wants to emulate. Yaphet Kotto's tenacity makes this work beautifully. 
Lee's Scaramanga is simply put perhaps his finest acting onscreen.
Stromberg and Drax serve the same purpose and are both IMO underwritten. Both are played by great actors and both serve the story yet of the two Drax is the standout for the cold way Lonsdale plays him and for how he gets some of the best lines ever.
Kristatos is a great character given short shrift like Columbo is.
Orlov and Kamal Khan being in the same film hurts each of their credibility. I like Louis Jourdan as a sort of evil Bond-type but its a very weak character that should have been excised or revised. Berkoff steals the film.
I feel Walken as Zorin is his best work and a brilliantly multifaceted characterization that deserves far more credit. And all this for what started as a Goldfinger clone.
Koskov-Whitaker. Most underrated in the series. No large domination schemes but totally believable with just enough grandiosity to be really entertaining Bond villains.
Sanchez is made by Davi's portrayal which makes him downright likeable despite his evil actions. however this has always made me less of a fan because you start to like the character for his morals and less as a villain.
Alec-great actor in what should have been an epic confrontation that never quite works. 
Carver-DELICIOUS! The best thing in all of TND and he nails it save for the lame-ish death scene and the kung-fu bit.
Renard-Elektra: amazing characters that make TWINE interesting. Yet again they aren't developed to what should be a satisfying arc in the beginnings of the curse of Purvis/Wade.
Moon/Graves-Moon was fine but the instant they adapted the transformed villain MR plot it didn't work for me.

Good write up! I've enjoyed reading your posts since your return. smile

And good to see more love for Carver. I do think Carver's death is one of Brosnan's most brutal moments in the role. Some fans think the Brosnan era became too much button pressing, but I think this demise is a good twist on the villain's gadget working against them (a la Oddjob's hat and Grant's garrotte watch, but with a lot more force and brutality. 

How would you develop the Renard and Elektra relationship further? I think one of the most fascinating scenes in the film is when they talk about Bond as a lover. As if Elektra is suddenly mourning Bond's death because she's falling for him. Not to mention the drawbacks of Renard's condition meaning he can't feel pleasure either, ultimately deciding to kill himself for the girl he loves, but cannot love.
Back to top Go down
hegottheboot
Experienced Correspondent
Experienced Correspondent
avatar

Posts : 468
Member Since : 2012-01-09
Location : TN, USA

PostSubject: Re: How would one choose the best Bond girl and villain?   Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:48 pm

Thanks! It's nice to be back. This is really the one place online I feel I can get really nitty gritty with my Bond obsession.

I think with Carver's death it's really only some of the staging that bugs me. I love Brozzer's tenacity at that moment combined with his slightly bruised and battered look after blowing up the stealth boat along with the fires in the background. Thematically you're right as it fits with previous demises but not in an overdone nod as Stamper is to Grant. I also like how Pryce's perfectly kept outer sarcastic veneer finally cracks as he dies in the same way as men on the Devonshire did.

With Renard and Elektra you have to get at the heart of TWINE's problem: that the character relations are seemingly sewn into the standardized Bond film. It took me a long while to realize what didn't work about TWINE despite it being my favorite of the four. Michael Apted is extremely good at interpersonal character relations and it seems that he was chosen to better suit Brosnan's desire for more character. Yet everything will consistently take a backseat to second unit sequences to such a degree that the characters are jilted and the film becomes disjointed. The villains of TWINE are a film in and of themselves and when they are onscreen with or without 007, the picture is incredibly fascinating. I love the way the three play off of each other and only wish they had more to do. Had they been in greater focus, Robert Carlyle would have been an Oscar contender. Despite all this I feel strongly this is both Carlyle and Marceau's best work.
Benson's book spoils you a bit with some great Renard flashbacks. It doesn't help that Purvis & Wade can create an idea but never once flesh it out for a satisfying narrative arc. I can only dream of what Dick Maibaum would have done with these two in late 90's cinema-he would have had a field day!
Back to top Go down
ironpony
Experienced Correspondent
Experienced Correspondent
avatar

Posts : 220
Member Since : 2017-11-10

PostSubject: Re: How would one choose the best Bond girl and villain?   Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:03 pm

I actually thought that a lot of Dick Maibaum's villains to be mostly mustache twirlers or they are not very sympathetic.  This is not a bad thing, if that is the type of villain you want.  But Renard I found to be more of a sympathetic villain and not sure if Maibaum would have had a good treatment for him therefore.

But I think Renard might be my favorite villain of the whole series, cause I feel he has the most interesting backstory of them all.  And they save it for a twist, later on in the movie, so it doesn't have as much time to be dealt with unfortunately.  But maybe it didn't need to be.
Back to top Go down
hegottheboot
Experienced Correspondent
Experienced Correspondent
avatar

Posts : 468
Member Since : 2012-01-09
Location : TN, USA

PostSubject: Re: How would one choose the best Bond girl and villain?   Sun Jan 21, 2018 7:36 pm

Again this is more of reflection and not ranking I suppose. And onto the lovely lasses...here I feel it's a bit easier than with the villains as I'm not one for listless damsels in distress and the female roles are the one area where I feel the films have dramatically let themselves down from Fleming. When Fleming wrote women they felt like real people you could associate with and understand. I think other than TSWLM's infamous "All women love.." line (which if it had been reworked to indicate only that particular character's preferences as a bird with a wing down probably wouldn't have been as bad) and the discussions of lesbians in GF, his female characters were outstanding.

I don't know if you can count the villainesses as part of the regular Girls lineup. They seem to really be of a different category in that they will kill you.

Now it's time to admit to a few crushes here and there if I'm honest. Oh heck, who am I kidding I've practically had crushes on most of the leading ladies as I'm sure most of us have.

1.Tracy. There is no other no.1, and not because this is the one and only Mrs. Bond. Tracy is truly the type that would snare 007 of all people in that she herself is the ultimate bird with a wing down and didn't want to be snared by anyone-let alone life itself. The moment she passes Bond at speed in the PTS he is undeniably hooked, which of course dovetails immaculately with his then current listlessness with the fruitless chase of dead ends. And then there's Dame Diana Rigg who I've had a mad crush on since I saw OHMSS and Avengers reruns as a child. Still do. Swoon.
2. Pam Bouvier. The best and strongest female character since OHMSS, a gutsy yet warm lass who outguns 007 and takes her own risks. What's not to absolutely love? And I do...to me this is the lost Bond Girl, the one everyone forgets about.

What makes Honey so memorable in DN is not the bikini but the sensuality of Ursula's performance which is only enhanced by the bewitching dub of Nikki Van Der Zyl. To me it's one of the most beautiful voices ever, so is Barbara Jefford doing Tania who even has a similar sensuality and playfulness that is undeniably attractive. Yet with Tania there is also a fragility since she is but a pawn in SPECTRE's game. This knowing quality appears in Sylvia Trench and Miss Taro and creates a palpable sexual tension in their tryst scenes that on reflection is a part of the Young films that dissipates afterwards.
GF is filled with women but it is only the playful spunk of Jill (I've met Shirley Eaton and she truly is that way in real life even after all these years.), the cold remoteness of Tilly and the brazen challenge of Miss Galore that register. Jill is a gorgeous vixen that registers with both audience and Bond that her death really means something-just as Fleming wrote of their gorgeous lovemaking affair on the train journey. Tilly is interesting in that she begins as supposedly a challenge yet is strikingly killed off a'la Marion Crane. Pussy is wonderfully played, written and conceived to make her more believable than what Fleming wrote. And then there's the lovely Dink who leaves far too soon...until you realize Margaret Nolan is the title girl and is IMO one of the great images of female beauty and with a coldness far greater than even Jill's death image. (Brownjohn's titles are great artworks and rank equally with the best of Binder's titles in my book.)
Thunderball has the flirty challenge of Pat Fearing, the disposed Paula and the multifaceted Domino. And you already see the patterning of the women. Pat is made interesting by the maintaining of sexual tension, Paula is barely onscreen and only has a few instances of characterization sadly. And then there's Domino who gives an impression of Fleming's more layered cool beauty and thankfully maintains it since the film only shows glimpses. Her scenes with Bond are among the more rewarding of women in the series as they have a romantic quality stemming from her trapped position. Barry's scoring of these scenes are forever associated in my mind with romance and longing. Claudine Auger is absolutely beautiful, and this combined with the staggering beauty and sexuality of the underwater sequences is another of the things that makes TB magical. And of course Fiona Volpe is the fiery Italian temptress who is the complete realization of the femme fatale hinted at in DN, and it would be a pleasure to be the subject of such murder attempts.
YOLT unfortunately marginalizes the female characters to the formula tropes to such a degree that it sucks the life out of them. Aki, Kissy and even Helga Brandt are attractive but other than Aki and Kissy being helpful there is little to delve into. Aki functions as Bond's counterpart so her death is haunting but Kissy only works well when displaying character such as the refusal of Bond's advances or firing guns in the base.
Tiffany Case in DAF is both a representation of her novel counterpart and a bastardization of it. She is best when brazen yet overwhelmed by the stakes of the game being played as Fleming wrote her originally. I hate it when the film has her revert to being the gangster's moll or dumb bimbo as Miss Case otherwise is an extremely attractive and worthy character. This is best underlined by the Plenty character being the stereotypical bimbo some think Bond Girls are only to have her literally thrown out the window so Bond can be picked clean by the much stronger Tiffany.
Though she isn't Fleming's Solitaire, LALD's Solitaire has a bit of her spunk and is absolutely gorgeously bewitching. She perfectly fits the setup and seems like someone who would have the mystical power of the Obeah.
Goodnight and Andrea Anders are the nadir of women in Bond. Not because the actresses weren't up to snuff, but because they are used for really nothing at all. Goodnight is too much of a dumb bimbo that it becomes tiresome and Andrea has seemingly little emotion. Then there's the bum scene which is agonizingly stupid...
XXX should be silly, stupid or hackneyed but she isn't and Bach as Amasova really works-particularly playing off of Roger beautifully in several sequences. My favorite moment in the film is from the breakdown of the van through the boat scene. Bond and Amasova's tryst after Jaws's attack on the train is one of the best executed in the series. Ahhh...and that Naomi...such a beautiful smile as she kills you!
Holly Goodhead is unfortunately a lesser copy of XXX and despite Lois Chiles trying to give her some spunk it really gets a bit tiresome as the sparring doesn't work as it naturally did in TSWLM and feels forced. Once she is revealed as CIA it becomes far better and even a twinge romantic. I feel the tryst with the lovely and sadly doomed Corinne, Bond leaving Holly in Venice and even the "Take Me around the world one more time" tag all particularly scored by Barry here are absolutely beautiful moments.
I think Caroline Boquet was a stunning face and Melina a good character but in the film she seems of less importance and even a touch remote. I've heard some refer to her as a bit of a cold fish from all the water sequences and it kinda stuck in my head. The dramatic moments are great but otherwise it feels a tad flat-save for that great bit in the Greek markets where she lets her hair down and we get a welcome mini Bond travelogue. Countess Lisl is such a welcome change that its sad she gets killed off so fast. (Bond confronted here at gunpoint with that amazing Conti cue is my favorite moment in the film and still makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up.) And poor Bibi is need of some serious parenting. Perhaps Jacoba made her do a lot more practicing and when she started to mouth off Columbo made her continually eat pistachios so as to not hear her whining.
OP again has this issue where the women are alluring but ultimately remote, unimportant and even forgettable at times. Octopussy is meant to be of Bond's kind but we are merely told this again and again with little to show for it. Magda does the bidding of others and likes to sari off balconies. That said, her balcony dive and Bond's emotional confrontation with Octopussy are incredible moments.
AVTAK has the striking and surprising turn of Mayday but she is really more the henchman character. Stacey Sutton drove me insane as a kid and I loved that she for an instant seemed to be left in the burning elevator shaft to perish. I referred to her as sounding like a squealing pig due to her uselessness and constant screaming. Now I have come to realize it isn't that bad but despite her looks she is a mixture of standard female role and plot exposition. Pola Ivanova is a welcome contrast and gone FAR too soon like Tibbett and any mention of the microchip MacGuffin that is supposed to be the original plot. Picture her somewhere in the climax and you have more interest at least. And of course there's Jenny Flex which despite being such a unimportant side character has a diabolically great funny pun name I can't help but adore. (Do I make a weird over the top Rock Band avatar in each game and name her Jenny Flex? Of course!)
Kara is at first an underwhelming simpleton who is too weak as a character to be of interest. Admittedly I used to feel she was the weak link in TLD, in that they characterized her as being a bit too common. Then I realized that she really is a normal person swept up into experiences far beyond her grasp both emotionally and in terms of the great action. Thus her actions have stronger meaning than a strong character or stock character would have in that you begin to associate with her as a normal person in an un-normal world all of a sudden. Here at last was a female character who began to approach Fleming again. And the one woman Bond style was a welcome refreshment in that the actress was now allowed to flesh out her character and actually have a relationship instead of being the video game achievement NPC tagalong. The romance scenes actually mean something in TLD and have a great deal of realism to them. Kara comes across as more of a person and less of a type-just what Dalton's 007 would require and instill. Personally I think the most romantic moments in the series occur in TLD-especially when Barry uses the "If There Was a Man" theme which just gets me every damn time. Not only do I think the British poster for TLD is the best in the series, but the artist absolutely nails D'Abo plus she sports the sniper rifle. If that's not sexy-what is?
I love Natalya in GE but her importance to the narrative comes and goes in spurts and outside of her computer skills and spunk there is little else. Ah, but what lovely spunk! Curse you Rare for making us hate her for so long! ;) Xenia, Xenia how we love thee...how we wish thee were in the film more...how we love your psychotic abandon and obvious pleasure. Famke having a field day with the role really makes Xenia come to life. And I can't go without mentioning the best damn cameo in the series, the immortal and hysterical strangling of the cat. WHAT HAPPENED TO GREAT DARK WHIMSICAL HUMOR LIKE THIS?? AUGH!
Paris is a good idea but seems a bit coincidental to be married to Carver and a pure setup as the sacrifical lamb. I like the deeper context of the hotel room scene but have never been able to buy it fully. Wai Lin is also a great idea but somehow never sparks for me. I love Michelle Yeoh, I love the character but this is really a XXX retread crammed into a revisit of the YOLT story.
Elektra is a wonderful character with many facets and layers. She deserved her own film to herself with Bond and is entrancing. Christmas is not worked into enough of a essential character other than having exposition and being the finale girl. I like her best when she is exchanging wit with Bond and being a spunky scientist caught up in bad situations. I've never had an issue with Denise Richards as a scientist as I felt that was a stupid argument-I did take issue with her scenes that served little to no purpose. I do like the name and the character fine...oh dear but the "unwrapped your present" and "Christmas only comes once a year" lines are horrendously bad. And I love Mankiewicz's "she's just coming" line. See P&W-it was done before in context as to not ruin the comedy!
Then we get to DAD...oh dear...Miranda Frost is well..too frosty and underdeveloped not to mention in some scenes Rosmund Pike comes across as far too young. But she's Shakespearean compared to Jinx who is by far the worst in the series and so bloody annoying that I haven't been able to take Halle Berry seriously since. Jinx is perfect at everything, has a comeback for everything and is the worst sort of female Bond equal in that in the real world everyone would laugh themselves to death or just obliterate her instantly for being so damned annoying. And she not only had the worst love scene in the series that dared reference OHMSS by having Bond snooze after she left-but SHE GAVE A YO MAMMA JOKE! M should have commandeered the Vanquish and berated 007 for attempting to save her after she already obviously had drowned...thank god the Jinx movie never happened...thank God.


The sad thing is, the Craig era has had some of the most beautiful actresses around do very little and be very unappealing. Eva Green and Gemma Arterton are completely stunning and capable actresses who are painfully underutilized in their respective films. Lea Seydoux also would have made an amazing Fleming-like character but is not only the best and only good damn thing in SPECTRE but completely thrown away!

The most surprising of this post for me to write was on Kara as until recently I never quite realized how much I had come to love her character. And I forgot to mention that practically all the girls in CR '67 are lovely and fascinating. And poor Kim Basinger is useless in NSNA whereas Brandauer's Max Largo is worth watching the whole film for.


But underneath it all we all love and live for Moneypenny's banter. Darling Moneypenny, you know I never even look at another woman.... that said, I do hope the new Moneypenny character lives up to her heritage. Samantha Bond and Caroline Bliss did extremely well in the flirty sexual undertones and I feel Bliss gets forgotten since she really only got one film and one glorified cameo.
Back to top Go down
ironpony
Experienced Correspondent
Experienced Correspondent
avatar

Posts : 220
Member Since : 2017-11-10

PostSubject: Re: How would one choose the best Bond girl and villain?   Sun Mar 18, 2018 7:22 pm

Oh okay then. I actually liked Jinx and thought she was sexy and spunky but maybe that's just my taste.

I also am surprised some fans say Eva Green was underutilized, as she is probably still my favorite Bond girl. I don't get what more they could have done to utilize her without overdoing it and making her overutlized really.

As for villains, perhaps Donald Pleasance is my favorite villain cause I love his performance and his take on the character, however, he just so happens to be one of my least favorite Bond movies, where all the other elements are disappointing.

So can I pick Pleasance's Blofeld as the best villain when he is a bad Bond movie? Does the best Bond villain have to be in a good Bond movie to support it?
Back to top Go down
Erica Ambler
Chief Executive
Chief Executive
avatar

Posts : 6137
Member Since : 2011-08-05
Location : Under the spreading chestnut tree

PostSubject: Re: How would one choose the best Bond girl and villain?   Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:27 pm

ironpony wrote:
I also am surprised some fans say Eva Green was underutilized, as she is probably still my favorite Bond girl.  I don't get what more they could have done to utilize her without overdoing it and making her overutlized really.

Never got the idea of an emo Bond girl - Eva always looks as though she needs a long bath in sheepdip to me.

If Tim Burton ever makes a Vampira pic she could do that. As long as he's happy with a Shakespearian French-Australian accent.
Back to top Go down
FieldsMan
Chief Executive
Chief Executive
avatar

Posts : 4723
Member Since : 2010-05-13
Location : The Alpine Room

PostSubject: Re: How would one choose the best Bond girl and villain?   Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:48 pm

ironpony wrote:

As for villains, perhaps Donald Pleasance is my favorite villain cause I love his performance and his take on the character, however, he just so happens to be one of my least favorite Bond movies, where all the other elements are disappointing.

So can I pick Pleasance's Blofeld as the best villain when he is a bad Bond movie?  Does the best Bond villain have to be in a good Bond movie to support it?


FieldsMan wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Well after thinking about it, perhaps instead of Renard, my favorite Bond villain might be Donald Pleasance's Blofeld.

However, I don't really like YOLT as a series entry that much, so do in order to pick the best villain, do you have to like the movie they are in?  Or can you have the best villain be in an overall bad entry, that doesn't make the best use out of him either?

As has been said countless times, there really is no criteria. It's up to you. Tomorrow Never Dies, From Russia With Love, Goldeneye, Thunderball and On Her Majesty's Secret Service are my favourite Bond films, but Max Zorin is probably my favourite villain in the series. That said, I do think Klebb and Carver round out my top three.
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: How would one choose the best Bond girl and villain?   

Back to top Go down
 
How would one choose the best Bond girl and villain?
Back to top 
Page 3 of 3Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Bond And Beyond :: Bond :: Bond: General News & General Discussion-
Jump to: