These forums may contain mild adult content and are not associated with EON, Sony or any other companies and do not reflect their views.
 
HomeHome  RegisterRegister  Log in  

Share | 
 

 Bond and Beyond Short Story Discussion: Octopussy and The Living Daylights

Go down 
Go to page : Previous  1, 2
AuthorMessage
Kath
Experienced Correspondent
Experienced Correspondent
avatar

Posts : 352
Member Since : 2017-12-23

PostSubject: Re: Bond and Beyond Short Story Discussion: Octopussy and The Living Daylights   Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:45 am

FieldsMan wrote:
Kath wrote:
Hilly KCMG wrote:
Somebody on that Everything or Nothing film suggested that the strain of the court battle with McClory, likely did its part in hastening Fleming's end.

I did not want to object in general. I just have my difficulties if assumptions are made by paralleling characters and their creators. And when these parallels are considered as definite proof. I mean, you didn't; but it reminded me of the assumption the librarian made some years back.

FieldsMan wrote:
I think of my Connery/Fassbender/Brosnan amalgamation
I am sorry, but I am still new here. What is that? And why these three?

FieldsMan wrote:
There is something charismatic (or, as Kath puts it, elegant) about Bond's handling of the situation, despite the personal connection to Oberhauser. Without sounding like a broken record, this is sensational insight into Bond's character, and something that Craig's era fails to understand (a case could be made for the scene with Mr White in SPECTRE, but I think Bond's idea was to earn White's trust, than to see him commit suicide). There's a careful refinement to Bond and that is something that should be upheld. There also seems to be some respect for Smythe, despite his wrongdoings. Perhaps its the grey that keeps this interesting, and not the black and white.

I did not feel that Smythe was presented respectfully. I was hoping you might elaborate on this, because I totally fail to see it.
I never really understood Bond's role in White's suicide. That man was dying of a thallium intoxication anyway; so his suicide goes into the category of euthanasia. He didn't need Bond to bring him a weapon, did he? It looks like Bond is actually offering his weapon when he says "This is my word". "Tell me all you know about Oberhauser and you may use my weapon to get a merciful death"? The difference between White and Smythe is, IMO, that the first is really a mercy killing whereas the second is a kind of punishment or revenge. Bond is not doing Smythe a favour.

HillyKCMG wrote:
If substituting WWII, you'd have, personally, either the Falklands or Northern Ireland maybe for a Smythe (I visualise an older retired officer, similar looking chap to the character Kamal Khan rips off in Octopussy the film). I'd imagine any Smythe though in a film today would be the first Gulf War or Kosovo. Depends on the detail really.

I totally agree.


When I read Fleming's Bond, I think of a hybrid of those three faces.

The fact that Bond is a peripheral character and a lot of attention is given to Smythe in the opening pages, well before Bond visits him, establishes Smythe as a sympathetic character, especially considering his health problems (though maybe that's just me being sensitive). As for Mr White, it isn't worth getting into a discussion about that, since the script doesn't go beyond what is presented.

Thanks!
Yes, you're right. I was so focusing on his role of a cold-blooded murderer that I had forgotten about it.
I was hoping you would come up with another explanation.  tumbleweed I do not like this idea. That's almost as bad as Madelaine going to bed with a dress and getting up with a nightgown. big laugh
I LOVE SPECTRE, but that's a really, really bad mistake. And whoever chose those costumes...The first time I saw that dress lying on the bed I thought what a horrible piece of clothing that was.  shake head Since when do they put their Bond girls into clothing that makes them ugly? It makes her hips fat and generates the optical trick that she has sagging breasts. Sorry for mentioning that, but why would you ever want that for a Bond girl?  wot Probably it's part of killing the myth, like that watch that "tells the time"...Or it's just a very, very bad choice of clothing.
Back to top Go down
Kath
Experienced Correspondent
Experienced Correspondent
avatar

Posts : 352
Member Since : 2017-12-23

PostSubject: Re: Bond and Beyond Short Story Discussion: Octopussy and The Living Daylights   Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:46 am

It's high time for "Property of a Lady"...

I absolutely love the idea that the MI 6 is running a bogus compartment to ensure that Maria Freudenstein sends fake information to her KGB superiors. One of my favourite scenarios of the whole series.

I have three questions I'd love to discuss with you:

-What do you make of Bond's childish behaviour of dropping his coat on the floor because he wants to avoid the hanger Goodnight has bought (with her own money)? Such a willful refusal of a gift is downright childish...so, what do you say? Or is it motivated by frustration because there is no new mission for him, (it is said that it was not necessary to keep his coat in order because of this reason)?

-What do you make of the Proverbs quote in the middle?

-What to you make of the many details we are given about the Fabergé objects? What is their purpose? Add authenticity? Bore the reader?^^
Back to top Go down
FieldsMan
Chief Executive
Chief Executive
avatar

Posts : 4942
Member Since : 2010-05-13
Location : The Alpine Room

PostSubject: Re: Bond and Beyond Short Story Discussion: Octopussy and The Living Daylights   Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:03 pm

I'm afraid I haven't caught up yet. Buried with work. 

Back to top Go down
Kath
Experienced Correspondent
Experienced Correspondent
avatar

Posts : 352
Member Since : 2017-12-23

PostSubject: Re: Bond and Beyond Short Story Discussion: Octopussy and The Living Daylights   Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:51 am

Never mind. I have read them all recently, which means that I have them fixed in my memory. (Well, it was kind of "work"). I actually do not have to read and catch up at all. I can sympathize. We probably need a more open schedule; what do you think?

Have you seen yet that there will be Mama Mia 2? But I am afraid that it is the pre-story, so we have a young actor who plays the Brosnan character in his early years. I just remembered having seen the trailer when I saw Brosnan's picture...
Back to top Go down
Kath
Experienced Correspondent
Experienced Correspondent
avatar

Posts : 352
Member Since : 2017-12-23

PostSubject: Re: Bond and Beyond Short Story Discussion: Octopussy and The Living Daylights   Thu Mar 01, 2018 10:41 pm

Shall we move on to TLD? A great film and my favourite short-story...
Back to top Go down
Erica Ambler
Chief Executive
Chief Executive
avatar

Posts : 6232
Member Since : 2011-08-05

PostSubject: Re: Bond and Beyond Short Story Discussion: Octopussy and The Living Daylights   Thu Mar 01, 2018 11:34 pm

Here's a very contemporary review of TLD:

Quote :
In The Living Daylights Fleming lives out his misogyny within a novel Bond reads. The female character is used and abused 'most thoroughly'!! God he was a prick, and one thing I won't miss about the novels is his dis-tasteful views.

I say virtue signalling is not enough. Fleming's body should be exhumed and fed to the dogs. I mean, how dare Fleming makes jokes like that? Almost as bad as hyphenating 'distasteful'.

My favourite BTL response to this insightful criticism: 'Buy A .925 Silver Chain Online'
Back to top Go down
Blunt Instrument
Chief Executive
Chief Executive
avatar

Posts : 3672
Member Since : 2011-03-20
Location : Belfast, Northern Ireland

PostSubject: Re: Bond and Beyond Short Story Discussion: Octopussy and The Living Daylights   Fri Mar 02, 2018 6:33 am

'An Intellectual Mediocrity'.

He's not wrong.
Back to top Go down
Kath
Experienced Correspondent
Experienced Correspondent
avatar

Posts : 352
Member Since : 2017-12-23

PostSubject: Re: Bond and Beyond Short Story Discussion: Octopussy and The Living Daylights   Fri Mar 02, 2018 6:49 am

Thanks!

So, I am most likely a case lost to romanticism, because I thought the message here was that Bond is sabotaging his very own 00-section to rescue that one woman. He grows sentimental and unprofessional. I mean, this is a major offence, what he's doing here, and it might cost him his 00-status...
And I so loved that story because he deliberately missed, disobeying an order only because he had developed a fancy on her. (And she does not shoot blanks. That was a stupid, stupid change in the film!) He never spoke to her and she does not even know that he exists; still he spares her because he loves the "vivacity" she has and he can't bring himself to extinguishing that.
This is the one occasion when the Licence to Kill means having the Licence not to Kill.
I really hate that they have tuned it down in the film, when Dalton simply says that she wasn't a sniper. She was. A most deadly KGB sniper and Bond of all men spares her because he likes her.
So, Bond does have a heart, after all.
Now you despise MY reading, I guess?  colgate

I've liked that one:

An Intellectual Mediocrity wrote:
The man Smythe had murdered had been a friend of Bond's. He had taught him to ski before the war. In the film of the same name a female protagonist is introduced. She is the daughter of the man just to tie the film and novel closer together.

---> Blofeld's sister!!! ROTFLMAO
And Bond's foster sister. Will we meet her in 25?

An Intellectual Mediocrity wrote:
But it must be said the well is now dry, and all future Bond films will be without any Fleming influence at all.

Don't think so...

What do you expect? S/he's musing about that strange Solange character who is Solitaire.  roll eyes
Fleming really got me here. I was wondering why Bond wasn't sending her a note about his arrival in the U.S.. It's Solitaire. She can see into the future; so he doesn't have to send her a note. big laugh

Blunt Instrument wrote:
'An Intellectual Mediocrity'. He's not wrong.
thumbsup
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Bond and Beyond Short Story Discussion: Octopussy and The Living Daylights   

Back to top Go down
 
Bond and Beyond Short Story Discussion: Octopussy and The Living Daylights
Back to top 
Page 2 of 2Go to page : Previous  1, 2

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Bond And Beyond :: Bond :: Literary Bond-
Jump to: