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 Cheesiest Bond Movie?

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hegottheboot
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Makeshift Python
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PostSubject: Re: Cheesiest Bond Movie?   Cheesiest Bond Movie? - Page 2 EmptyThu Jul 26, 2018 5:22 am

To each their own.
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PostSubject: Re: Cheesiest Bond Movie?   Cheesiest Bond Movie? - Page 2 EmptyThu Jul 26, 2018 5:38 am

Makeshift Python wrote:
It's supposed to be funny, I just didn't think it was.


A big difference (beside the obvious) between DAD's light hearted dialogue and CR's drama in that former you can either harmlessly groan/laugh with, and the latter, as Hilly mentions, is that they're forcing us to swallow it as good dialogue. I'd much rather sit through DAD's "humour" than CR's "drama".
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PostSubject: Re: Cheesiest Bond Movie?   Cheesiest Bond Movie? - Page 2 EmptyThu Jul 26, 2018 10:29 pm

Aye, as much as Jinx's side of the script is cringe-inducing I find myself preferring DAD over CR n a few aspects.
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Makeshift Python
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PostSubject: Re: Cheesiest Bond Movie?   Cheesiest Bond Movie? - Page 2 EmptyFri Jul 27, 2018 10:25 am

FieldsMan wrote:
I'd much rather sit through DAD's "humour"

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But like I said, to each their own. Some people would rather sit through BATMAN & ROBIN than BATMAN BEGINS for their own reasons. Would be a boring world if everyone thought the same way.
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PostSubject: Re: Cheesiest Bond Movie?   Cheesiest Bond Movie? - Page 2 EmptyFri Jul 27, 2018 6:21 pm

Alan Arkin as Yossarian in Catch 22, when asked "Suppose everyone thought the same way you do?":

"Then I'd be a damn foll to think any different!"
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PostSubject: Re: Cheesiest Bond Movie?   Cheesiest Bond Movie? - Page 2 EmptySun Jul 29, 2018 11:47 pm

The Mankiewicz trilogy is genuinely brilliant in "all sorts of ways" but people "never take advantage of them".
I also feel he was one of the wittiest writers since Billy Wilder and criminally underappreciated if appreciated at all.

DAD is painfully silly so that would be my answer, though cheesy isn't necessarily a bad term.

CR '06 is painful in every way.

CR '67 is a pop art masterpiece of madness and frequently hysterical and genius. There are so many great gags, in jokes, absurd and slapstick humor abound together in both spy and non spy forms. How about the random room of women being painted gold? Or Vesper dumping her corpses in the icebox? Or Niven doing a beautiful Sir James shtick? Or Allen's bits?
"I'm very allergic to bullets entering my body. Would it help if I said I was pregnant?"
Or the map of dead agents? "Gaaaaroooteed in a geeiiisha house..."

I could keep going for ages.
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ironpony
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PostSubject: Re: Cheesiest Bond Movie?   Cheesiest Bond Movie? - Page 2 EmptyMon Jul 30, 2018 1:40 am

I just think that Mankiewicz writing is not suited for Bond as his writing is better suited for low budget B movies and Bond is just a different category then him.

Like instead of writing a Bond movie that makes fun at blaxploitation, his writing would be better suited for an actual blaxploitation movie, if that makes sense.
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PostSubject: Re: Cheesiest Bond Movie?   Cheesiest Bond Movie? - Page 2 EmptyTue Jul 31, 2018 1:11 pm

ironpony wrote:
I just think that Mankiewicz writing is not suited for Bond as his writing is better suited for low budget B movies and Bond is just a different category then him.

Nah, frankly, blockbusters could use a lot more of that Mankiewicz wit. For a movie set in Las Vegas, he really captures the sleaziness of that town. SUPERMAN '78 would be a lesser film if he had not contributed to the script. Once you took him out of the equation, you got SUPERMAN III, which is even closer to B-movie standards by my book.
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PostSubject: Re: Cheesiest Bond Movie?   Cheesiest Bond Movie? - Page 2 EmptyTue Jul 31, 2018 11:11 pm

Oh right, I forgot he did Superman. Well not sure how much he wrote of it, but Superman I and II were a lot better than the three Bond movies he did though.
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PostSubject: Re: Cheesiest Bond Movie?   Cheesiest Bond Movie? - Page 2 EmptyThu Aug 02, 2018 8:30 am

While '78 is a great film I absolutely adore and II will always be compromised but still has many strengths (and despite me having done much research on their production histories and versions)...they don't hold a candle to DAF-LALD-TMWTGG. I hate how the Mank trilogy is so underrated.

I found myself doing Wint and Kidd lines all day for no apparent reason. Mother Nature's true finest killers.
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PostSubject: Re: Cheesiest Bond Movie?   Cheesiest Bond Movie? - Page 2 EmptyThu Aug 02, 2018 11:17 pm

I love Wint and Kidd and they were the best part of the movie. Even though some of Mank's humor I find to be cringeworthy, a lot of it is funny like Wint and Kidd, or Nick Nack.

The biggest problem with the Mank movies is for some reason the action sequences are not has high budget as other entries it seems.

If you look at the two movies that book end the Mank trilogy, which are OHMSS and TWSLM, the action sequences in those are so much better, and for some reason the Mank ones do not have the best action sequences, especially TMWTGG which probably has one of the least exciting climaxes in my opinion. But that's not Mank's fault, I just don't like some of his humor.
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PostSubject: Re: Cheesiest Bond Movie?   Cheesiest Bond Movie? - Page 2 EmptyFri Aug 03, 2018 12:48 am

I don't think the writer can be blamed for how the action sequences turned out.

Credit where credit due, I think Tom Mankiewicz is excellent with dialogue, but I find his storytelling suffers perhaps at the expense of a good line. DAF is barely strung together, LALD feels like the barebones of a story, and TMWTGG is like two separate stories forced together without focus on either one.

However, given the tone of the films, story isn't at the forefront - it's entertainment. And they deliver.
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ironpony
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PostSubject: Re: Cheesiest Bond Movie?   Cheesiest Bond Movie? - Page 2 EmptyFri Aug 03, 2018 1:16 am

I agree with you on your plot line points.  The dialogue is good, accept for some of the really cheesy attempts at humor as the genuine Felix lighter or the Ku Klux Klan cookout.

But then other dialogue of his is good though.

But I should rewatch TMWTGG again. I remember it being my second least favorite Bond movie after QOS, mostly because of the lack of action and excitement and plot, but also because I thought Scaramanga wasn't given much to do, and Mary Goodnight was the worst Bond girl in the series for me.

But I did like the subplot with Andrea Anders, which is better than the average villain subplot I suppose.
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PostSubject: Re: Cheesiest Bond Movie?   Cheesiest Bond Movie? - Page 2 EmptyFri Aug 03, 2018 3:15 pm

I do wish we had a Mankiewicz penned script under a different director for at least one instance. All three films were by Guy Hamilton, and unlike Lewis Gilbert or Peter Hunt, he approaches the material as more of a farce than an earnest adventure. Gilbert's films can be as silly, but they were at least larger than life. You can't really say that about Hamilton's films including GOLDFINGER, but that doesn't necessarily make it a bad thing. GOLDFINGER works just fine as it is, and the following Hamilton films more or less stay within that trajectory for better or worse. I enjoyed DAF and LALD, but felt TMWTGG was strained. Mankiewicz even felt as such with that third one, which is why he left mid-way to have Maibaum take over, only to have Mankiewicz brought back as an emergency when Maibaum wasn't delivering.

SUPERMAN '78 at least gives you an idea of a Mankiewicz penned script filmed as an epic. I suspect had he continued on beyond just doing an outline of TSWLM we would have had an approximation. One thing I realized about DAF was how much Blofeld was written as something of a precursor to Hackman's Lex Luthor. There's that one bit where he makes a quip regarding about blowing Kansas.
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PostSubject: Re: Cheesiest Bond Movie?   Cheesiest Bond Movie? - Page 2 EmptyFri Aug 03, 2018 11:45 pm

Oh for even a hint of Mank's writing in the current approach to big-screen Superman. Save the darkness for Batman, at least with him it fits.
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PostSubject: Re: Cheesiest Bond Movie?   Cheesiest Bond Movie? - Page 2 EmptyWed Sep 26, 2018 2:41 pm

hegottheboot wrote:
Mankiewicz [snip] was one of the wittiest writers since Billy Wilder and criminally underappreciated if appreciated at all.

Maybe he born at the wrong time - Hollywood in the 1950s might have made better use of him.
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PostSubject: Re: Cheesiest Bond Movie?   Cheesiest Bond Movie? - Page 2 EmptyWed Sep 26, 2018 10:44 pm

I think that Mankiewicz has a good sense of humor sometimes, it's just his Bond movies did not have the best action scenes.  In between OHMSS and TSWLM, the series took a dive in action and stunts.  So I don't think it's necessarily Mankiewicz's fault, it's just his three are in my bottom five, mostly for lack of excitement, but it's a budget thing and not his fault necessarily, I don't think.  Unless he's just not that good at writing action compared to humor.

However, his humor did go down hill after DAF for some reason, but got more cheesy. At least Octopussy has really good action scenes to compliment the cheese.
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PostSubject: Re: Cheesiest Bond Movie?   Cheesiest Bond Movie? - Page 2 EmptySat Sep 14, 2019 9:39 pm

"a women-only island,  a band of women fighting in bikinis"


 ...are exactly the kinds of things that make this 7/10 movie a solid 9/10, agreed and let's have more of that in the future, much, much more of that
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PostSubject: Re: Cheesiest Bond Movie?   Cheesiest Bond Movie? - Page 2 EmptySun Sep 15, 2019 3:45 am

Mankiewicz did a final pass on TSWLM. That's why it has more refined humor and has its edges better rounded. He only did a handful of contributions to MR if I understand it correctly so that was much more of Christopher Wood just swinging for the fences and having a lark while everyone else just tried to go way bigger than SPY.

Uhh..not the best action? My avatar and the boat chase and the DAF elevator fight and several other things beg to differ.
It's more of a matter of the gradual slowing of editing/pacing in that era of the series than the action slipping though the PTS fight in DAF is the worst in the original series. Look at some of Hamilton's other work in the era to see his similar style but without the EON gloss.

Actually the script flouted around Hollywood for nearly a decade on BATMAN to sell it to studios was a Mankiewicz penned script with the origin story and was similar in tone/structure to Superman 78. I only read it once and while it told the obvious-it was still damn great and even as a Batman fan who doesn't want to see the origin story told yet again that script is still one of the best superhero films.

"Are you joking? 007 on an island exclusively populated by women? We won't see him until dawn."
-A line perfectly taking a knowing crack at Bond without resorting to the hollowed out volcano M speech.
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PostSubject: Re: Cheesiest Bond Movie?   Cheesiest Bond Movie? - Page 2 EmptySun Sep 15, 2019 9:31 pm

ironpony wrote:
Some if it positively cheesy, some negative.  It was a mix of both for me.  The elaphant winning the slot machine and the freak show scene, was negatively cheesy, where as Blofeld dressed like a woman to escape the casino, and Jimmy Dean, more on the positive side, and flips back and forth like that for me.

Absolutely love the freak show scene.

"See Zambora. Strangest girl ever born to live. She was found outside of Nairobi, South Africa."

"Be careful so vee voudn't disturb Zambora from her transcendental state. And if something should hap'm, get outta here!"

What a scream. Manky outdid himself there. And the guy playing the Kraut scientist was a total riot.
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PostSubject: Re: Cheesiest Bond Movie?   Cheesiest Bond Movie? - Page 2 EmptySun Sep 15, 2019 9:37 pm

hegottheboot wrote:
While '78 is a great film I absolutely adore and II will always be compromised but still has many strengths (and despite me having done much research on their production histories and versions)...they don't hold a candle to DAF-LALD-TMWTGG. I hate how the Mank trilogy is so underrated.

I found myself doing Wint and Kidd lines all day for no apparent reason. Mother Nature's true finest killers.

Agreed. Manky is easily the best of Bond's comedic writers. Christopher Wood runs a fairly distant second.
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PostSubject: Re: Cheesiest Bond Movie?   Cheesiest Bond Movie? - Page 2 EmptyMon Sep 16, 2019 11:44 pm

Does Chris Wood even qualify in terms of comedy in Bond? huh
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PostSubject: Re: Cheesiest Bond Movie?   Cheesiest Bond Movie? - Page 2 EmptyMon Sep 16, 2019 11:51 pm

I don't think I'd call DAF cheesy. I associate cheesiness with unintentional cringe-inducement whereas DAF was created with tongue firmly in cheek and self-awareness.
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PostSubject: Re: Cheesiest Bond Movie?   Cheesiest Bond Movie? - Page 2 EmptyTue Sep 17, 2019 4:29 pm

Mr. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang wrote:
Does Chris Wood even qualify in terms of comedy in Bond? huh

Absolutely. MR is probably the second most humorous Bond film after DAF.
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PostSubject: Re: Cheesiest Bond Movie?   Cheesiest Bond Movie? - Page 2 EmptyTue Sep 17, 2019 4:30 pm

CJB wrote:
I don't think I'd call DAF cheesy. I associate cheesiness with unintentional cringe-inducement whereas DAF was created with tongue firmly in cheek and self-awareness.

The only unassailable definition of "cheesy" is the one pertaining to macaroni and pizza. For that reason I couldn't possibly say what the cheesiest Bond film is.
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