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 Everything wrong with Casino Royale in 12 minutes, or less

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Mr. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang
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PostSubject: Everything wrong with Casino Royale in 12 minutes, or less   Everything wrong with Casino Royale in 12 minutes, or less EmptyWed May 22, 2019 2:44 am

Yeah. I remember when these videos used to be 'Everything wrong with... in 4 minutes or less'. Speaks volumes when you have to triple the runtime to cover the movie... And it's not even all of them.

I will say that I disagree with a handful. But only that. Just a few. For most, he is bang on.

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PostSubject: Re: Everything wrong with Casino Royale in 12 minutes, or less   Everything wrong with Casino Royale in 12 minutes, or less EmptyThu May 23, 2019 4:07 am

EWW with CR 06 in one second.
Everything.

IIRC they did GF and it was 19 mins or something. When they stay on point these are short, funny and honest. But they get so devolved into nitpicking and not acknowledging the markets of the time I usually don't bother with them.
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PostSubject: Re: Everything wrong with Casino Royale in 12 minutes, or less   Everything wrong with Casino Royale in 12 minutes, or less EmptyThu May 23, 2019 5:48 am

I don't think he's ever actually said in the other Bond videos: "who actually likes this movie?!" like he did here.

I admit some of the other videos have some silly "sins" listed and those, I think, are intended to be more humorous, but I'm so glad such a popular channel has ripped into the most overrated piece of crap in this series.
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PostSubject: Re: Everything wrong with Casino Royale in 12 minutes, or less   Everything wrong with Casino Royale in 12 minutes, or less EmptyFri May 24, 2019 4:44 am

Quote :
I'm so glad such a popular channel has ripped into the most overrated piece of crap

That title fits Cinema Sins more than Casino Royale.

One of the Cinema Sins' most nitpicky videos ever made, not to mentioned jerkish too "who actually likes this movie?!" is one of the dumbest words he ever said, there's a reason why CS garnered a lot of criticism recently.
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Mr. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang
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PostSubject: Re: Everything wrong with Casino Royale in 12 minutes, or less   Everything wrong with Casino Royale in 12 minutes, or less EmptyFri May 24, 2019 4:48 am

I think he's correct for most of his points. Most of the issues stem from the oxymoron that is Bond being a "rookie" 00 agent. It contrives much of the drama.

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Badre

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PostSubject: Re: Everything wrong with Casino Royale in 12 minutes, or less   Everything wrong with Casino Royale in 12 minutes, or less EmptyFri May 24, 2019 5:02 am

Mr. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang wrote:
I think he's correct for most of his points. Most of the issues stem from the oxymoron that is Bond being a "rookie" 00 agent. It contrives much of the drama.


I disagree, I think he is way too nitpicky for the majority of this video,  in fact he can be too nitpicky for his own good, that's why he's been getting a lot of criticism as of late.

"WHO are the people who love this movie?!" was uncalled for and only a pretentious jerk would be this dismissive of people's taste and opinions. (to those who its all a joke, he acknowledged a lot of his points are based on own opinion)
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PostSubject: Re: Everything wrong with Casino Royale in 12 minutes, or less   Everything wrong with Casino Royale in 12 minutes, or less EmptyFri May 24, 2019 5:30 am

Some points are absolutely his opinion, and some I do disagree with, even in his CR06 video. But many points are certainly objective when he demonstrates why CR doesn't work as well as it should, including much of the criticism surrounding the overhyped, bloated Madagascar chase, i.e. fighting with a guy he's not to kill, on a crane where he could fall to his death. (Why chase him up there anyway instead of waiting for him to get down again? laugh ), Bond being "shatterproof", conveniently placed gas bottles, etc. as well as killing Mollaka himself.

And then breaking into his superior's apartment is a definite sin. No need for Bond to do that at all. Setting plays such a big part in narrative and characterisation (which is why the likes of LTK doesn't work for some because it feels Miami Vice-esque, for instance) and having Bond break into M's apartment to perform basic intelligence duties (i.e. stuff a standard agent could perform) only serves to characterise this Bond as edgy to compete with Jason Bourne. Not to mention the worst thing to do after pissing off his superior and fucking up a mission is to break into their home. Where is the logic in that? blink laugh
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PostSubject: Re: Everything wrong with Casino Royale in 12 minutes, or less   Everything wrong with Casino Royale in 12 minutes, or less EmptyFri May 24, 2019 8:34 am

If he has issues with Bond's 'invincibility' and the convenient placing of things, he must hate the entire series.
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PostSubject: Re: Everything wrong with Casino Royale in 12 minutes, or less   Everything wrong with Casino Royale in 12 minutes, or less EmptyFri May 24, 2019 9:07 am

The difference is tone. CR06 wants to be A Streetcar Named Desire, but it edges closer to The Room more than anything else.
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PostSubject: Re: Everything wrong with Casino Royale in 12 minutes, or less   Everything wrong with Casino Royale in 12 minutes, or less EmptyMon May 27, 2019 4:37 am

You mean it wants to be Batman Supremacy.
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PostSubject: Re: Everything wrong with Casino Royale in 12 minutes, or less   Everything wrong with Casino Royale in 12 minutes, or less EmptyMon May 27, 2019 4:43 am

Well, yes. My saying it wants to be Streetcar was more about it taking itself so seriously when the plot line is about Bond bankrupting the villain at the tables. Hardly the grounds for an oh-so-serious drama, but perfect for Bond... if there's the element of joie de vivre, which the film sorely lacks, along with logic, understanding of the Bond's world (and the novel itself), charisma and an effective romance.
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PostSubject: Re: Everything wrong with Casino Royale in 12 minutes, or less   Everything wrong with Casino Royale in 12 minutes, or less EmptyMon May 27, 2019 9:54 pm

Mr. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang wrote:
The difference is tone. CR06 wants to be A Streetcar Named Desire, but it edges closer to The Room more than anything else.

Except CR's use of drama is for the most part actually competent unlike whatever the heck The Room was trying to do.

It may have taken influence from the Bourne films but it still feels like Jame Bond like how Live And Let Die tried to be a Blacksploitation film or how Moonraker tried to cash in on Star wars or how License to Kill tried to mimic 80's action films and Cop shows (LALD and LTK are considered good Bond films and CR is better in my book). I would argue it's a better movie than the majority of the Bourne films.
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PostSubject: Re: Everything wrong with Casino Royale in 12 minutes, or less   Everything wrong with Casino Royale in 12 minutes, or less EmptyMon May 27, 2019 11:29 pm

I strongly disagree. The drama in CR06 is far from competent and feels contrived (well, because it is) for most part. Compare that with Skyfall, where the drama organically manifests itself. For example, Bond breaks into M's apartment (why?) in CR. In SF, when he breaks into M's apartment, it's because he had been presumed dead, his office blown up and needs to make contact with his superior (who risked his life for the mission).

CR06 is just as redundant as all the Bourne sequels. Like comparing which rotten food is better. tongue
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PostSubject: Re: Everything wrong with Casino Royale in 12 minutes, or less   Everything wrong with Casino Royale in 12 minutes, or less EmptySun Jun 09, 2019 4:11 am

Mr. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang wrote:
Some points are absolutely his opinion, and some I do disagree with, even in his CR06 video. But many points are certainly objective when he demonstrates why CR doesn't work as well as it should, including much of the criticism surrounding the overhyped, bloated Madagascar chase, i.e. fighting with a guy he's not to kill, on a crane where he could fall to his death. (Why chase him up there anyway instead of waiting for him to get down again? laugh ), Bond being "shatterproof", conveniently placed gas bottles, etc. as well as killing Mollaka himself.

As one person in the comment section pointed out:

Quote :
Killing the bomb maker after they were surrounded probably made sense, not like he was going to be able to interrogate him. Might as well make lemonade out of lemons in that case.

other comments that countered his sins

Quote :
Few problems with this: The black-and-white scene in the office is not a flashback. The series starts fresh with 'Casino Royale' so Bond killing Dryden to earn his double-o is happening in current time, which means Bond killing Fisher (the guy in the bathroom) is not a "flashback within a flashback." You refer to Bond's "now-dead partner." Carter wasn't killed (or even wounded, for that matter). You point out that Bond always has a hand that beats the other players. This isn't true. He loses two hands (that we are shown - he presumably loses more) and one of these is a HUGE hand that wipes him out (and you show this hand in the video!). Finally, you mispronounce LeChiffre's name as "LeShiff."

Quote :
Third world countries usually do have loads of gas around and typically gas ranges are the main method of cooking due to common power outages. As far as exploding when shot, well it's a flick.

Quote :
3:51 the guy is paid by le chifres people to blow up the plane so the airline stock would fal. While he has been shorting their stock

Quote :
8:07 That is actually how you are supposed to show your hands in a poker game. You show your hands in the order you played in order to keep order at the table. It just happened to serve to create dramatic tension as well.

Quote :

The car crash was practical. The stuntman did survive even tho the crash was bigger than expected.
So Bond could have survived 🤷‍�

Quote :
CinemaSins gets +1 Sin for thinking CPR(aka restarting the HEART via CHEST compressions) is performed by pressing on the diaphram rather than the sternum, which is where the heart is located.

Quote :
3 years later (and you won't read this), but Bond's hand placement for CPR was correct. You want your hands on the sternum- not the diaphragm.

Quote :
CinemaSins thinks that CPR means compressing the diaphragm. +100 sins for not knowing basic first aid.

Quote :
The Omega vs. Rolex is a joke for those in the know. In the book (as well as in earlier Bond films) he wears Rolex Submariner (plus other watches, Seiko Digital too but Sub is his "iconic one") Since 90s the Omega Seamaster is used and even as one of Bonds gadgets. The Seamaster is a "Bond watch" now. (and one perfect product placement)

Quote :
remember James Bond isn't trying to be based in reality. In terms of the poker hands, that is purely for viewers of a broad stroke - so yes, those hands were definitely coolers but made great screen time for viewers (except you) who dont really know much about poker. It was more for aesthetics and chip porn.

Quote :
To be fair, the Uganda subtitle is warranted. A lot of people have a hard enough time finding Alaska on the map, NOBODY but the extremely well-educated have ever heard of Mugabe.

Also, the bullet didn't hit Bond's knee, it hit the bomber's knee. They clearly showed the bomber scream in pain right after they showed the bullet impact. +1 sin to CinemaSins for unobservance. AND you completely missed the point of the shower scene.

You also should have removed 5 sins for the hilarious moment during the torture sequence. Also, it should be commended that the movie follows the plot and structure of the novel a LOT more than the vast majority of all adaptations. Bond stops two bombers? Check. Bond is sent to a high-stakes card game at a luxurious casino to stop Le Chiffre? Check. (Yes, the game itself isn't poker, but poker is a better game anyway.) Vesper and Bond fall in love, she betrays him, then commits suicide? Check. It even has "The bitch is dead." line.

Quote :
He was wrong. Actually, Bond would be beaten by Pocket Kings (that's Quad-Kings), Pocket Jacks (Quad-Jacks) or Pocket Aces (Aces-Full of Kings). Still, he's right that nobody folds Kings-full in that situation.

Quote :
So he sins movies that include states/countries in subtitles indicating places, then sins a movie for foregoing said subtitles because he doesn't know where the place is? Gotta be trolling at this point
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PostSubject: Re: Everything wrong with Casino Royale in 12 minutes, or less   Everything wrong with Casino Royale in 12 minutes, or less EmptySun Jun 09, 2019 2:35 pm

Badre wrote:
Mr. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang wrote:
Some points are absolutely his opinion, and some I do disagree with, even in his CR06 video. But many points are certainly objective when he demonstrates why CR doesn't work as well as it should, including much of the criticism surrounding the overhyped, bloated Madagascar chase, i.e. fighting with a guy he's not to kill, on a crane where he could fall to his death. (Why chase him up there anyway instead of waiting for him to get down again? laugh ), Bond being "shatterproof", conveniently placed gas bottles, etc. as well as killing Mollaka himself.

As one person in the comment section pointed out:

Quote :
Killing the bomb maker after they were surrounded probably made sense, not like he was going to be able to interrogate him.  Might as well make lemonade out of lemons in that case.

And blowing up an embassy? The problem is not only with this type of situation, but the set up and what it says about Bond's character. Nothing to do with making good of a bad situation. But even then, could have done with more tact.

Badre wrote:
other comments that countered his sins  

Quote :
Few problems with this: The black-and-white scene in the office is not a flashback. The series starts fresh with 'Casino Royale' so Bond killing Dryden to earn his double-o is happening in current time, which means Bond killing Fisher (the guy in the bathroom) is not a "flashback within a flashback." You refer to Bond's "now-dead partner." Carter wasn't killed (or even wounded, for that matter). You point out that Bond always has a hand that beats the other players. This isn't true. He loses two hands (that we are shown - he presumably loses more) and one of these is a HUGE hand that wipes him out (and you show this hand in the video!). Finally, you mispronounce LeChiffre's name as "LeShiff."

No, it's not a flashback, so why is it in black and white? It's pretentious and incongruous with the rest of the film's arc. And again, it's not about it being a flashback or not (though it would have made more sense if it did). It's the fact that CR isn't Bond's first mission. The entire 'Bond begins' angle is so half assed it's actually really surprising how vacuous it is as you try to make sense of this new story they've imposed on audiences.

How do we know Carter is alive? The implication to me is that he died. The poker stuff doesn't really bother me.

Quote :
Third world countries usually do have loads of gas around and typically gas ranges are the main method of cooking due to common power outages. As far as exploding when shot, well it's a flick.

"Well it's a flick" isn't a good sign of deep and gritty film that demands we take it seriously Anyway, I'm not interested in cosmetic details like this. The many core, structural issues with CR are the more serious problems.


Quote :

The car crash was practical. The stuntman did survive even tho the crash was bigger than expected.
So Bond could have survived 🤷‍�

Again, this is not an issue in isolation. But, you know, Bond was dead earlier that night.

Quote :
3 years later (and you won't read this), but Bond's hand placement for CPR was correct.  You want your hands on the sternum- not the diaphragm.

Not bothered by Bond doing CPR. I'm bothered by the overbloated action sequence that preceded it to needlessly make it dramatic, ultimately taking away the power of Vesper's betrayal.

Quote :
The Omega vs. Rolex is a joke for those in the know.  In the book (as well as in earlier Bond films) he wears Rolex Submariner (plus other watches, Seiko Digital too but Sub is his "iconic one") Since 90s the Omega Seamaster is used and even as one of Bonds gadgets. The Seamaster is a "Bond watch" now. (and one perfect product placement)

The Rolex/Omega stuff isn't an flaw for me, but how it's used in conversation. It serves to characterise Vesper-- that entire scene serves this purpose-- but she comes across as unlikeable and a far cry from Fleming's Vesper. Again, characterisation is the deeper problem than all the surface stuff these youtubers are referring to.

Quote :
remember James Bond isn't trying to be based in reality. In terms of the poker hands, that is purely for viewers of a broad stroke - so yes, those hands were definitely coolers but made great screen time for viewers (except you) who dont really know much about poker. It was more for aesthetics and chip porn.

So this seems to contradict another youtuber who's comment you quoted above (I may have deleted it in my post because I'm avoiding repeating myself here).

And this James Bond is absolutely trying to base itself in reality, with all it's pseudo-realistic and faux-gritty circumstances. But the whole concept of Bond beating the villain's scheme by bankrupting him at the tables is outrageous and has a sense of joie de vivre about it, but with very grave ramifications. Unfortunately the film's makers tried to make it seem like it's an everyday mission. Unlike say, FRWL, where the entire premise is noted to be "so fantastic it just could be true".

Quote :
To be fair, the Uganda subtitle is warranted. A lot of people have a hard enough time finding Alaska on the map, NOBODY but the extremely well-educated have ever heard of Mugabe.

If these are the best responses to CR06's flaws, then it's pretty damn obvious the film makers failed at reaching their target audience. Or perhaps they did. Messy film.

Quote :
AND you completely missed the point of the shower scene.

What was the point? To show Bond as a sentimental twat after virtually loathing each other? To ensure Vesper is put into place after all her groundstanding in earlier scenes when she hasn't grasped what she's involved in. But then she does know, since she's a double agent. What the fuck are they trying to accomplish here? If it's to show Bond and Vesper getting closer they fail miserably at that. There's no flow/natural progression/development with these characters. It's hate hate hate, then love all of a sudden.

Quote :
You also should have removed 5 sins for the hilarious moment during the torture sequence. Also, it should be commended that the movie follows the plot and structure of the novel a LOT more than the vast majority of all adaptations. Bond stops two bombers? Check. Bond is sent to a high-stakes card game at a luxurious casino to stop Le Chiffre? Check. (Yes, the game itself isn't poker, but poker is a better game anyway.) Vesper and Bond fall in love, she betrays him, then commits suicide? Check. It even has "The bitch is dead." line.

"Hilarious moment in the torture scene" is a very problematic statement. Bond is suddenly crass, and then wrong in his assumptions, and dilutes what should have been a very memorable scene. But alas, the kids are watching, so we need to make this a little lighter. Because that's who their target audience is.

As for following the adaptations closely, absolutely not. It has the basic plot points, loosely connected together by Bond's arc that's supposed to impact the direction of Bond's professional mission. But since Bond gets from A to B in the book without this journey, it reinforces how redundant and confused Bond's journey to "become Bond" is. Just as the above quote also highlights. Basic plot points, that's it.

Quote :
He was wrong.  Actually, Bond would be beaten by Pocket Kings (that's Quad-Kings), Pocket Jacks (Quad-Jacks) or Pocket Aces (Aces-Full of Kings).  Still, he's right that nobody folds Kings-full in that situation.

"He's right that nobody folds Kings-full in that situation". Interesting.

Quote :
So he sins movies that include states/countries in subtitles indicating places, then sins a movie for foregoing said subtitles because he doesn't know where the place is?  Gotta be trolling at this point
[/quote]

Picking on the trivial flaws instead of the deep rooted ones is a surefire way to admit the plentiful issues with the movie. But anyway, like in the better Bond films, the visual cultural element usually informs us of Bond's destination, instead of the clinical statements of being told where we're going.
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PostSubject: Re: Everything wrong with Casino Royale in 12 minutes, or less   Everything wrong with Casino Royale in 12 minutes, or less EmptyMon Mar 02, 2020 9:54 am

CinemaSins' counterpart page CinemaWins just posted this for CR:


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