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 Why would the hotel porter warn Bond?

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PostSubject: Why would the hotel porter warn Bond?   Why would the hotel porter warn Bond? EmptyThu Dec 05, 2019 8:29 pm

SPOILER


In the movie, the hotel goes to deliver Bond's breakfast. As Bond is having breakfast, he notices a card attached to the bill. The card is a tarot card, that is suppose to warn Bond of Rosie Carver being one of the villains.

However, why does the hotel warn Bond of this, in such a peculiar way? What stakes does the hotel have in this whole plot?
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PostSubject: Re: Why would the hotel porter warn Bond?   Why would the hotel porter warn Bond? EmptyThu Dec 05, 2019 11:10 pm

I always imagined Solitaire had a role in planting the card.
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PostSubject: Re: Why would the hotel porter warn Bond?   Why would the hotel porter warn Bond? EmptyFri Dec 06, 2019 1:34 am

The great thing about that movie is everything can be explained away with Voodoo.
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PostSubject: Re: Why would the hotel porter warn Bond?   Why would the hotel porter warn Bond? EmptyFri Dec 06, 2019 2:33 am

It's from Solitaire. Somehow she had it sent to tell Bond he was dealing with a false entity-and by sending the card she could do it indirectly without arousing suspicion.

Bond would be intelligent enough to research and inquire what that card in that position could mean and help him to put two and two together. He already had his suspicions about Rosie and was on edge since he was following in the footsteps of a murdered colleague.
Solitaire does this as the turning of the lovers card in Harlem earlier indicated their connection and her belief in the cards leads her to realizing Bond may be her way out of this life under Kananga. In Fleming's novel Solitaire realizes this in Mr. Big's office room when first presented with Bond and uses the cards to read him while keeping her true assertions to herself-then eventually escapes with Bond due to her findings.

In the film she is much more of an innocent which makes Bond's manipulation of her beliefs with the stacked deck another sign of his ruthlessness throughout the film that most critics of Roger fail to realize. Of course Mank has this tryst remove her abilities and thus add an edge of the supernatural and slightly tragic but ultimately allows for her to leave not only Kananga by the end but the darkness of other worlds that has haunted her whole life.
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PostSubject: Re: Why would the hotel porter warn Bond?   Why would the hotel porter warn Bond? EmptyFri Dec 06, 2019 2:43 am

"In the film she is much more of an innocent which makes Bond's manipulation of her beliefs with the stacked deck another sign of his ruthlessness throughout the film that most critics of Roger fail to realize."

One of the very few scenes in the whole series where I don't like Bond all that much.
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PostSubject: Re: Why would the hotel porter warn Bond?   Why would the hotel porter warn Bond? EmptyFri Dec 06, 2019 3:41 am

Sarai wrote:
"In the film she is much more of an innocent which makes Bond's manipulation of her beliefs with the stacked deck another sign of his ruthlessness throughout the film that most critics of Roger fail to realize."

One of the very few scenes in the whole series where I don't like Bond all that much.

I'm sure he did it strictly for queen and country...
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PostSubject: Re: Why would the hotel porter warn Bond?   Why would the hotel porter warn Bond? EmptyFri Dec 06, 2019 3:48 am

Oh okay, but if Solitaire warned Bond than how come she was completely surprised to see him again when he broke in compared, to if she had warned him, and thus would be more expecting of him to show up?
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PostSubject: Re: Why would the hotel porter warn Bond?   Why would the hotel porter warn Bond? EmptyFri Dec 06, 2019 10:05 am

And yet again we're back to why it's sometimes best not to over-scrutinise Bond plots.
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PostSubject: Re: Why would the hotel porter warn Bond?   Why would the hotel porter warn Bond? EmptyFri Dec 06, 2019 1:21 pm

Perilagu Khan wrote:
Sarai wrote:
"In the film she is much more of an innocent which makes Bond's manipulation of her beliefs with the stacked deck another sign of his ruthlessness throughout the film that most critics of Roger fail to realize."

One of the very few scenes in the whole series where I don't like Bond all that much.

I'm sure he did it strictly for queen and country...

Yes, that whole debate and it's very typical of Bond so it's interesting this is one of the only scenes/movies where I feel that way. I'm not sure how the audience is supposed to feel about that scene. Is it being played for laughs too or am I just supposed to feel that uncomfortable? I feel like she's sweet, she is innocent and already a victim before Bond pulls that stunt so I do feel like 'what a cold hearted bastard." It's also the only Bond film where I feel uncomfortable with a woman being hit when Kanaga slaps her to the floor near the end and the way he talks to her is more than a little bit disturbing. Those just aren't emotions I normally get out of a Bond film so it is very well done and elevates the movie in many ways for me. very underrated Bond film
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PostSubject: Re: Why would the hotel porter warn Bond?   Why would the hotel porter warn Bond? EmptyFri Dec 06, 2019 4:15 pm

Sarai wrote:
Perilagu Khan wrote:
Sarai wrote:
"In the film she is much more of an innocent which makes Bond's manipulation of her beliefs with the stacked deck another sign of his ruthlessness throughout the film that most critics of Roger fail to realize."

One of the very few scenes in the whole series where I don't like Bond all that much.

I'm sure he did it strictly for queen and country...

Yes, that whole debate and it's very typical of Bond so it's interesting this is one of the only scenes/movies where I feel that way. I'm not sure how the audience is supposed to feel about that scene. Is it being played for laughs too or am I just supposed to feel that uncomfortable? I feel like she's sweet, she is innocent and already a victim before Bond pulls that stunt so I do feel like 'what a cold hearted bastard." It's also the only Bond film where I feel uncomfortable with a woman being hit when Kanaga slaps her to the floor near the end and the way he talks to her is more than a little bit disturbing. Those just aren't emotions I normally get out of a Bond film so it is very well done and elevates the movie in many ways for me. very underrated Bond film

Actually, I was being somewhat facetious. Bottom line--so to speak--Bond wanted a piece of tail and used underhanded methods to get it. A high percentage of men are total cads when it comes to that sort of thing. A bit of realism from a Bond film, there.
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PostSubject: Re: Why would the hotel porter warn Bond?   Why would the hotel porter warn Bond? EmptyFri Dec 06, 2019 5:39 pm

I knew what you were saying, caught your tone and was laughing. My post probably looks more serious in tone than I meant it to be which is a problem with text. I thought it to be an interesting scene in a movie but I don't have any negative feelings towards men in real life at all. I work with all men who are the biggest pigs on the planet, don't represent your average male at all and I just find it funny.
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PostSubject: Re: Why would the hotel porter warn Bond?   Why would the hotel porter warn Bond? EmptyFri Dec 06, 2019 11:00 pm

ironpony wrote:
Oh okay, but if Solitaire warned Bond than how come she was completely surprised to see him again when he broke in compared, to if she had warned him, and thus would be more expecting of him to show up?

She sent/planted the card which concerned Rosie. Him turning up to see her is unrelated to the card being sent.
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PostSubject: Re: Why would the hotel porter warn Bond?   Why would the hotel porter warn Bond? EmptyMon Dec 09, 2019 2:27 am

You're meant to feel unconformable when Kananga erupts against Solitaire for that moment. It used to creep me out a bit as a kid endlessly rewatching my tape copy. Kananga's move to dominate Solitaire completely as his wife is directly from the novel.

As for the seduction it does show Bond as a bit of a ruthless cad-however it should be noted that:
-He does not believe in the voodoo having real effects but over the course of the film acknowledges the affects it may or may not have on people-as happens in the novel where Bond reads about voodooism and how he witnesses Mr. Big use it as a psychological force.
-Solitaire is an innocent struggling to be free and felt a forbidden attraction to Bond that was confirmed by the cards and by choosing to bed him regardless of the stacked deck displays her desire to forge her own path away from Kananga in spite of the cost.
-In doing this she also admits to her own feelings for what may be the first time. So despite the ruthlessness of Bond's proposition and that it is to extract info from her-there is a sort of emotional release and lessening of her anxiety that is reflected in the performance from there on.
-Solitaire not having very much information and then losing her power is a sort of double blow to Bond's supposed charms at winning over women. Mank may have thought it funny to do so and it is a sort of "oh well now off we go". And it also helps to get him back for the stacked deck.
-Solitaire is informed of the deck and says that the manipulation does not matter since the violation has been done. There is also the indicated history of her lineage being one of the women doing the same and thus losing abilities.

Even more ruthless is Bond deciding to skip Tampa and march straight into the lion's den of New Orleans with Solitaire as bait in order to flush out the enemy which happens immediately.

Solitaire had no idea 007 was just going to show up. No one does. She is asked his whereabouts when distressed by Kananga and cannot see him on the hang glider. Bond then infiltrates via air and sneaks into her room. As in many other points in the film Mankiewicz has the screen Bond act like the Bond of the novels and decide to force the pace of the story by advancing the action and forcing the villain's hand.
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PostSubject: Re: Why would the hotel porter warn Bond?   Why would the hotel porter warn Bond? EmptyMon Dec 09, 2019 5:22 pm

hegottheboot wrote:
You're meant to feel unconformable when Kananga erupts against Solitaire for that moment. It used to creep me out a bit as a kid endlessly rewatching my tape copy. Kananga's move to dominate Solitaire completely as his wife is directly from the novel.

As for the seduction it does show Bond as a bit of a ruthless cad-however it should be noted that:
-He does not believe in the voodoo having real effects but over the course of the film acknowledges the affects it may or may not have on people-as happens in the novel where Bond reads about voodooism and how he witnesses Mr. Big use it as a psychological force.
-Solitaire is an innocent struggling to be free and felt a forbidden attraction to Bond that was confirmed by the cards and by choosing to bed him regardless of the stacked deck displays her desire to forge her own path away from Kananga in spite of the cost.
-In doing this she also admits to her own feelings for what may be the first time. So despite the ruthlessness of Bond's proposition and that it is to extract info from her-there is a sort of emotional release and lessening of her anxiety that is reflected in the performance from there on.
-Solitaire not having very much information and then losing her power is a sort of double blow to Bond's supposed charms at winning over women. Mank may have thought it funny to do so and it is a sort of "oh well now off we go". And it also helps to get him back for the stacked deck.
-Solitaire is informed of the deck and says that the manipulation does not matter since the violation has been done. There is also the indicated history of her lineage being one of the women doing the same and thus losing abilities.

Even more ruthless is Bond deciding to skip Tampa and march straight into the lion's den of New Orleans with Solitaire as bait in order to flush out the enemy which happens immediately.

Solitaire had no idea 007 was just going to show up. No one does. She is asked his whereabouts when distressed by Kananga and cannot see him on the hang glider. Bond then infiltrates via air and sneaks into her room. As in many other points in the film Mankiewicz has the screen Bond act like the Bond of the novels and decide to force the pace of the story by advancing the action and forcing the villain's hand.

When you say Bond decided to got to New Orleans to flush out the enemy, do you mean when he gets captures at the airport?
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PostSubject: Re: Why would the hotel porter warn Bond?   Why would the hotel porter warn Bond? EmptyMon Dec 16, 2019 3:47 am

Yes. The dialogue has Quarrel Jr say Tampa is closer but Bond insists on going to New Orleans since Hamilton was killed there and there seems to be a connection.
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PostSubject: Re: Why would the hotel porter warn Bond?   Why would the hotel porter warn Bond? EmptyMon Dec 16, 2019 6:10 am

Oh okay, I didn't Bond was using Solitaire as bait though. I thought he was going to presumably give her Felix for protection first, before marching into the Lion's den, if that was the plan.
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