Is anyone bothered by the 'sexist misogynist dinosaur' comment?

Everytime M says this, it always feels like it's way too preachy and on the nose. We know Bond is, we don't need another character to spell it out. And it is even worse in the elevator when Moneypenny has to talk to him about sexual harassment. It just comes off as preachy. Goldeneye is probably my 5th or 6th favorite film in the series, so I do like it but that one section of the movie sticks out like a sore thumb for me though.

What do you think?

It was the mission statement of the film to modernize and update 007 for the mid 90's and GE continually analyses the character to break down the classic elements and reshape them for 1995. The dinosaur line is the key moment where that gauntlet is thrown down and we see how this Bond will take it and carry on the rest of the film.

while it may be a bit on the nose it is context for the scene and sets up the new M as not just a spin on the classic or flash in the pan-this is where she shows her "balls" as it were and is followed up with the lines about not being able to avenge Trevelyan. But she reveals her humanity and leadership qualities with the sharing of drinks and the final; "come back alive". Easily the main idea about the new M and the one great scene Barbara Mawdsley had (Benson's name for new M)...aaaaand then the writers seemed to not have anything to do other than make her the grouchy boss version of Moneypenny save for the more personal bits in TWINE. Then she became the really grouchy boss in the revamping.

What's great is Bond looks faintly amused, says 'Point taken' ... and then carries on in more or less the same fashion as he's always done.

I just don't like the drab, typical executive office. No character. And is Moneypenny's threat of an harassment suit supposed to be witty banter, or mid-90s PC lip service?
And shouldn't the line be 'misogynistic'?

The whole of the M scene in GE to me is probably Brozzer's best scene in all four films. Every last iota, glance, reaction, movement is so brilliantly done and wholly in character.

The office is a bit clinical but does have some warmth to it which again ties into the new M being businesslike on the outside but still human and up for the job on the inside-which is why everything in the inner office is hidden away before being revealed like the drink cabinet.

Penny's line is totally banter. The way she enunciates every word in close proximity to Bond is practically dripping with repressed desire and sensuality.

Grammar wise I guess the misogynist line could go wither way.

I love the updated office. I fully expect that's what the interior of that real SIS building could look like.

As mentioned by some, I feel that scene allows Bond and M to get their honest opinions of each other out of the way so they can carry on with working together. It's quite a journey for the actors to tackle in one scene and as HGTB notes, it's perfectly pitched by both Brosnan and Dench. You're watching people, not characters.

And you know, despite pointing out Bond's flaws (like Fleming intended, Bond is an antihero. He's flawed but who isn't? To pretend otherwise is wholly unengaging and untruthful), Bond comes out winning in the end. He doesn't change because of Dench's opinion of him. He continues on as he's always done and saves the world. What's appealing is that by the next film, perhaps Dench recognises that Bond's MO works...

As for the Moneypenny scene. I think it's lost on some that she's inviting Bond to actually follow through with the flirting. Thinking of it now, perhaps the "After you Moneypenny" / "No I insist, you first" exchange might just metaphorically reiterate her insisting that Bond make his move if there's any ounce of reality to his flirting.

In hindsight, it's one of the of the least-bad Dench-M moments. She says her piece, they move on, it's never mentioned again.

Meanwhile in Creggland we had the whole "I need to know I can trust you" schtick go on and on.

CJB wrote:

She says her piece, they move on, it's never mentioned again.

That's the beauty of it. It's a mature handling of a dynamic that could have easily sunk to something soap-operatic. It's not laboured or dwelled on. Bond's 'point taken' line, beautifully performed by Brosnan, underpins that there are far greater things to worry about than what they think of each other - and M knows that too. That preoccupation seriously compromises the CraigBond/DenchM dynamic in CR/QOS.

It's just a way to clear the air. M notices how uneasy and argumentative Bond is and works to put that out of the way. The most important bit is M's "Bond, come back alive", showing that regardless of how they personally feel about each other as people they can still count on each other.

As for the Moneypenny bit, it's just to show that there's more to her than always being the secretary that fawns over Bond. It shows she has a life outside the service, seeing other men, men who aren't Bond.

"What would I ever do without you?"
"As far as I can remember, you've never had me."

Sort of a nice callback to OHMSS where Moneypenny says "my problem is that you never do anything with me."

CJB wrote:

In hindsight, it's one of the of the least-bad Dench-M moments. She says her piece, they move on, it's never mentioned again.

Meanwhile in Creggland we had the whole "I need to know I can trust you" schtick go on and on.

Oh okay, but I guess that's what it feels like PC lip service in a way, in that it's just shoved in there, to be said and they move on, as if it should have never been in the script in the first place, if it's just something that doesn't matter with everything else, or so I thought.

But then again, I am entertained when Dirty Harry's boss calls him out on his crap, but for some reason M doing it to Bond on being sexist, just doesn't have the same charm to it in comparison to the Dirty Harry call out.

Yeah, it was a nod to the critics. Given the six year gap between films and political upheavals in that period, I'm sure plenty of opinion pieces were written about Bond's "relevance" for the 90's. The exchange with M was their way of saying "yeah, we know" and yet, in the end, Bond is still a womaniser throughout the film.

It all seems so quaint now. The PC stuff that is. What was once the domain of HR nags is now full-blown social totalitarianism.

"Christ, I miss the 90's."

Oh okay, but do are a lot of people bothered by Bond being a womanizer since a protagonist is allowed to have flaws though?

I think the issue comes from the perception by some folks that Bond is supposed to be something of a role model, especially since there was a time when the franchise aimed for children, selling toys and such during the latter Connery years and Moore's run. Obviously ever since Dalton's run EON hasn't been aiming for youthful audiences as much as they used to. Dalton even recalled in the Everything or Nothing documentary about how parents complained that they couldn't take their six year olds to his films.

With GE, it's acknowledged "this is who Bond is, take it or leave it". I'm fine with that, because that's keep up more with Fleming's sentiment:

Ian Fleming wrote:

Bond is not a hero, nor is he depicted as being very likable or admirable. He is a Secret Service Agent. He's not a bad man, but he is ruthless and self-indulgent.

Obviously this quote wouldn't gel with TV specials that came out right when the film came out, like "The World of James Bond" where Liz Hurley says in narration of the release of Dr. No "a superhero was born". So stuff like that plays into people's heads that Bond is supposed to be seen in the same light as Superman or Batman, who you don't normally expect to coerce women into sex with the threat they may lose their jobs.

Oh okay, well the thing about Bond coercing a woman into sex, the women always love him for it, in the movies, so are we really suppose to take it seriously?  Should we feel sorry for the female characters, when they have no regrets over it, and still want to be with him?

Sure it's a pure fantasy, but is that not what these movies are, and are not suppose to be a testament to reality? Like if you wanted to pay perhaps better, more proper lip service, what if Bond were to respond to M by saying "that the woman love him for it, and still want him after, so why feel bad for them"?

Or is Bond just not going to say this?

My point was that because pop culture tends to refer to Bond as a "hero", that elevates him to something he really isn't supposed to be. So if someone expects Bond to be a hero and then see him do stuff like mercilessly killing unarmed people in cold blood, it's kind of a shock.

Interestingly, George Lucas originally envisioned Indiana Jones being kind of skeevy, like sleeping with his students. There's also the detail that a 26 year old Indy had a sexual affair with a 16 year old Marion. Obviously, that explicit detail was distilled down to this exchange in the final film:

"I was a child! I was in love! It was wrong and you knew it!"
"You knew what you were doing."

Since they scrubbed the skeevier stuff, Indy could easily appeal to adventure films kids can watch.

Oh okay, but Indy still has some skeevy things such as sleeping with Marion when he was underage, didn't they? I wouldn't say it was fully scrubbed.

Not fully scrubbed, but enough that it wouldn't put off viewers like seeing Indy in bed with a student. Interestingly, there's a film about a 60 year old professor that sleeps with his students. The movie? Some Kind of Beautiful, starring Pierce Brosnan.

I don't have high expectations of it but it's been on a watch list for a while. It reunites Brosnan with Hayak, doesn't it?

This is reminding me that Dalton called Bond 'a bad lad, but he's on the side of good' and Martin Campbell saying in Goldeneye's promotion that Bond was a 'tuxedoed anti-hero'.

Blunt Instrument wrote:

This is reminding me that Dalton called Bond 'a bad lad, but he's on the side of good' and Martin Campbell saying in Goldeneye's promotion that Bond was a 'tuxedoed anti-hero'.  

Oh I like that. Campbell understood Bond, once upon a time.

Perhaps the lowest spot of an otherwise excellent film. Equally bad, Bond chooses not to defend himself. Indeed, he takes a verbal drubbing throughout this film, viz, for example, Alec's "all the women you failed to protect line."