Why is DAD too over the top but MR gets a pass from most fans?

A lot of fans say this one jumps the shark too much and goes way too over the top, but Moonraker, a lot of them like and that one is fine in comparison. But why is that?

Because it's popular to do so. Someone on Twitter posted about the Woozle Effect, "a phenomenon whereby an incorrect fact is cited so many times that it becomes largely accepted. It comes from a Winnie the Pooh story."

Kind of like how "Daniel Craig is Fleming's Bond" is an incorrect fact.

I think it's because MR strikes the tone a lot better than DAD for the most part because it seems to have a better understanding of what kind of film it is. It's basically a British pantomime. DAD suffers because tonally it keeps swinging from one pendulum to the other, part of why the film is so polarizing for many (along with many other unpopular elements).

So I don't think DAD gets undeservedly knocked because it's the "popular" thing to do. It's earned it, albeit I don't think it's THE worst of the franchise.

Oh okay, I actually like DAD a little better perhaps, because I felt the plot was better.

DAD was not reviled until it hit home video and years later on the internet. There was some backlash during the original release but audiences quite enjoyed it if having some qualms.

This forum helped me nail down the contributing factor really was Tamahori having too much leeway and pushing many directions way, way waaaaay too far off course.

hegottheboot wrote:

DAD was not reviled until it hit home video and years later on the internet. There was some backlash during the original release but audiences quite enjoyed it if having some qualms.

It was a movie a lot of people went out to see, but I do remember even at the time it came out many at my school dismissed it as being too cringey. Even professional critics seemed split on it. I enjoyed it for what it was, but couldn't deny it had parts that seemed embarrassing. Nobody thought Brosnan's run was done, so nobody came away thinking this is how he went out. But you're right, the backlash became much more prominent among fans once it hit home video and the hype had died down. By 2004 it was practically verboten to even suggest it was enjoyable. It was almost as reviled as BATMAN & ROBIN, but nothing could ever be as hated as that one.

Oh okay, well I think DAD is a lot better than Batman and Robin. A lot of people complain about the dialog being bad, but aside from the "yo mama" sentence, I didn't really have a problem with the dialog, at least not to the point where it ruins the movie.

ironpony wrote:

A lot of fans say this one jumps the shark too much and goes way too over the top, but Moonraker, a lot of them like and that one is fine in comparison.   But why is that?

Well, I for one disliked DAD as soon I saw it in theatres.

If I'd have been around in '79, I may have disliked MR at first glance too. However, given it's one of many Bond films made before I was born, I can go easier on it than I would something I saw brand new at the movies.

Oh yeah. I keep trying to figure out what it is that so many dislike about DAD but I always end up enjoying it, and cannot understand what it is. Sure it's campy and over the top, but so was the Moore era, so I don't think of it as any worse.

DAD isn't merely disliked because it's campy and over the top but that it's simply not done as well as those Moore entries. Also, MR was coming off of a long run of very campy and silly films during the 70s. It was the culmination of all that had come before. DAD however didn't even feel like it belonged with the rest of the 90s Brosnan run, as they were relatively more grounded.

As I said, earlier, I think part of why MR is more accepted is because of Moore's relaxed performance and sense of humor letting you know that this is all silly business, whereas Brosnan puts a lot more serious conviction into his performance. Something like a tense conversation with M on the medical frigate in DAD would never exist in MR.

Oh okay.  As for DAD not being as well done as Moore's entries, I would say it depends on which entry.  I would say that as far as camp goes, than TSWLM, and OP are better done that DAD, but I would choose DAD, over the rest of Moore's movies I think accept maybe MR, which may be tied with DAD for me, but not sure.

DAD is a lot better than DAF though, I would say.

I don't rank DAD higher than any Moore film, but both TMWTGG and AVTAK are literally sitting on top of it in the rankings, so it's not like they're far apart.

And I'd rank DAF higher than DAD just for the dialogue alone.

In some ways DAF and DAD are on opposite ends: DAF has excellent dialogue though light on plot. DAD has some awful dialogue but its narrative is stronger and more coherent.

In fact, I'd say DAD's story is stronger than all the 70s entries.

Yeah I guess I prefer the stronger story over the dialogue perhaps. But it's been a while since I've seen DAF and could revisit it again.