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tiffanywint
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PostSubject: Re: Carte Blanche reviews   Fri Jul 29, 2011 8:37 pm

Bounine wrote:
Oh, I'd still prefer Bond books to no Bond books. It would be nice if Deaver would make Bond cynical, critical and let us in on his thought process more though. :)
I would prefer to see another author write the next one but whether this actually happens is another matter entirely. Damn, I wish we could go back to having an adult Bond book per year.
Even a Deaver Bond book.laugh
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Perilagu Khan
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PostSubject: a   Sat Jul 30, 2011 12:37 am

Bounine wrote:
Fairbairn-Sykes wrote:
Frankly it's the difference between an artist who produces work that he cares about, and an artist who produces work that he's paid for.

Deaver, like Faulks before him, is an established novelist paid by IFP to write a Bond novel. So it's a sidetrack to writing about what they really want, an easy paycheck and some damn nice royalties. As an employee hired to do a job, he doesn't want to do anything that would rock the boat or upset his employers, so his Bond is a little bland and same-y, even if the book itself has a nice plot.

Whereas when Fleming wrote Bond, that's all there was -- Fleming and Bond. Nobody told Fleming how to write the character or what he could not do. And Fleming wrote Bond as his escape from the rest of his life -- there's a passion in the writing that shows in the quality of the stories. When Fleming got bored with the character, as he did in the lead-up to FRWL, it showed -- such as in the lackluster quality of DAF. But Bond was HIS, and no one else's. Even after EON started making the movies, that didn't mean they could tell Fleming how to write his books.

He compares writing to a business. In his talk he compared it to making toothpaste for Procter and Gamble. You can't make liver flavoured toothpaste he said as people won't like it. You have to make mint and peppermint flavoured toothpaste. The author claims this principle applies equally to writing and that you have to write what people want to read.

Bloody hell.

Deaver suffers from the same delusion that afflicts virtually all of our cultural "elites," namely that we regular folk are smitten with their insufferable politically correct views and are too weakminded or suggestable to handle cold, hard truth rather than polical correctness.

When will this cultural plague cease?


Last edited by Ed Tom Kowalsky on Sat Jul 30, 2011 11:43 am; edited 1 time in total
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Bounine
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PostSubject: Re: Carte Blanche reviews   Sat Jul 30, 2011 9:36 am

God knows but it's destroying almost every bloody thing in it's path! What's the world coming to?!
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tiffanywint
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PostSubject: Re: Carte Blanche reviews   Sat Jul 30, 2011 3:09 pm

Bounine wrote:
God knows but it's destroying almost every bloody thing in it's path! What's the world coming to?!

Its all imported straight from Pluto. We've been invaded.:alien:
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Fairbairn-Sykes
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PostSubject: Re: Carte Blanche reviews   Sat Jul 30, 2011 4:23 pm

Anyone ever seen "They Live"?
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Bounine
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PostSubject: Re: Carte Blanche reviews   Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:16 am

No. Any good?

I'm starting to lose faith in the adult Bond books. I really, really hope Higson returns to write a series of books based on Bond's adventures in WW2 (20 something Bond). If so, I wonder if he'll have Bond smoke.

For me, the cinematic Bond and the adult literary Bond pretty much died at the onset of the 1990's. I say "pretty much" because Casino Royale Reboot is a good film and there were good bits in the last few lacklustre Gardner novels and Benson books. Will he be resurrected? I'm just not sure. At the moment I actually like the contemporary cinematic Bond (Craig's Bond) more than the contemporary literary Bond (Deaver's Bond). As I said though, I'm all for Deaver writing another if he's the only author available or/and who IFP want. For me, better a Bond book than no Bond book. There are other Flemingsque elements in his novel...just not Bond himself. Plus, he writes a good yarn.

Personally, I can't understand why some people say they see Craig's Bond in Deaver's Bond. Craig's portrayal of the character is closer to Fleming's original creation than Deaver's. The latter is an overly nice, overly politically correct, sensitive new age guy who lacks the coldness of his former self along with a number of other character traits. I almost see Ben Affleck. God forbid!
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Blunt Instrument
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PostSubject: Re: Carte Blanche reviews   Thu Aug 04, 2011 8:15 pm

I did enjoy the start of Chapter 23, with Bond on a private jet to Dubai in pursuit of Hydt and his cohorts -

'Usually we never hear the sound that wakes us. Perhaps we might, if it repeats: an alarm or an urgent voice. But a once-only noise rouses without registering in our consciousness. James Bond didn't know what lifted him from his dreamless sleep. He glanced at his watch. It was just after one p.m. Then he smelt a delicious aroma: a combination of floral perfume - jasmine, he believed - and the ripe, rich scent of a vintage champagne. Above him he saw the heavenly form of a beautiful Middle Eastern woman, wearing a sleek burgundy skirt and long-sleeved golden shirt over her voluptuous figure. Her collar was secured with a pearl, which was different from the lower buttons. He found the tiny cream dot particularly appealing. Her hair was as blue-black as crow feathers, pinned up, though a teasing strand fell loose cupping one side of her face, which was subtly and meticulously made-up. He said to her, 'Salum alaikum'. 'Wa alaikum salam' she replied. She set the crystal flute on the tray table in front of him, along with the elegant bottle of the king of Moets, Dom Perignon. 'I'm sorry, Mr Bond, I've woken you. I'm afraid the cork popped more loudly than I'd hoped. I was just going to leave the glass and not disturb you.' 'Shukran,' he said, as he took the glass. 'And don't worry. My second favourite way to wake up is to the sound of champagne opening.' She responded to this with a subtle smile. 'I can arrange some lunch for you too.' 'That would be lovely, if it's not too much trouble'. She returned to the galley.'
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tiffanywint
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PostSubject: Re: Carte Blanche reviews   Thu Aug 04, 2011 8:41 pm

Yep that passage is well written as is much of the book. The book is eminently readable. However when all is said and done and the story is digested and mulled over, then it's shortcomings become apparent but only to us rabid Bond fans.

We have expectations of what we want in a Bond book and from the Bond character.



===I guess you are just arriving in Dubai so the Dubai adventures haven't started but later when the plot moves into South African and Bond engages in lethal combat with a holdover from earlier in the book, can you help me make sense of that fight. ie who exactly was this guy and how did Bond feel about him. I found it very confusing.
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PostSubject: Re: Carte Blanche reviews   Thu Aug 04, 2011 11:00 pm

I'm just at the bit where Bond and Leiter are chatting outside the cafe in Dubai ... I'll do my best to help make sense of the passage you mention when I get there, though.

I could picture any one of the Bond actors using that 'Second favourite way ...' line, which pleased me somewhat :) .
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tiffanywint
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PostSubject: Re: Carte Blanche reviews   Sat Aug 06, 2011 5:28 pm

I've got my dilemma figured out. I was trying to give Deaver the benefit of the doubt, but I can't. The answer is in the text where Deaver is again found guilty of being a big pussy.
Bond's lenience towards this chap in S.A. is beyond plausibility.
Deaver is obsessed with Bond needing to be understood, even by cold blooded thoroughly deranged homicidal killers not to mention wacko female cops who don't like it when armed operatives like Bond happen to kill the worst of the worst in the line of duty.
After much review, I am now firmly of the opinion Deaver is a hack, at least when it comes to writing Bond. He should not be allowed anywhere near another Bond book. He is IMO, the most grievous of the continuation authors and that includes Faulks.:elephant:

Please. IFP needs to hand the property over to Charlie Higson. He's probably the only hope.
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PostSubject: Re: Carte Blanche reviews   Sat Aug 06, 2011 5:59 pm

Yeah, give Higson a shot.

But Deaver was still better than Faulks. At least Deaver wasn't intentionally trying to fuck up.
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Perilagu Khan
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PostSubject: a   Sun Aug 07, 2011 12:40 am

tiffanywint wrote:
I've got my dilemma figured out. I was trying to give Deaver the benefit of the doubt, but I can't. The answer is in the text where Deaver is again found guilty of being a big pussy.
Bond's lenience towards this chap in S.A. is beyond plausibility.
Deaver is obsessed with Bond needing to be understood, even by cold blooded thoroughly deranged homicidal killers not to mention wacko female cops who don't like it when armed operatives like Bond happen to kill the worst of the worst in the line of duty.
After much review, I am now firmly of the opinion Deaver is a hack, at least when it comes to writing Bond. He should not be allowed anywhere near another Bond book. He is IMO, the most grievous of the continuation authors and that includes Faulks.:elephant:

Please. IFP needs to hand the property over to Charlie Higson. He's probably the only hope.

Strong words, tiffy. Very strong words indeed.
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Bounine
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PostSubject: Re: Carte Blanche reviews   Sun Aug 07, 2011 10:32 am

I would love Higson to write 5 or more books about Bond's adventures during WW2 (this, Higson has mentioned), then 5 or more post WW2 following Bond's recruitment into the service and his early assignments pre Casino Royale then regular books either set between his assignments during the 50's and 60's or post The Man With The Golden Gun. I wouldn't object to Higson writing contemporary Bond books but I think Bond's history in terms of the Fleming adventures should remain intact and referred to every once and a while with the dates altered as Deaver did regarding the death of Bond's parents.
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PostSubject: Re: Carte Blanche reviews   Sun Aug 07, 2011 5:29 pm

Ed Tom Kowalsky wrote:
Strong words, tiffy. Very strong words indeed.
In context though they are not that strong, because of the 9 continuation writers, there are only two that I consider to have been bad - those being the last two hot-shot best selling authors.
The first didn't seem to take the project seriously while the second, Deaver, despite crafting a readable thriller, got far too cute with the character, not to mention his obsession with twists and turns.
Deaver's work becomes much more grievous once one has had time to digest and reflect. Much like QoS. As a Bond fan, for the first few viewings I simply relax and enjoy the film for what it is. Same as the Deaver book with the initial read. However its upon further review that a more critical eye evaluates.
Although with CB, I thought something was very amiss regarding Bond's merciful attitude towards the killer that he does battle with in S.A. I just assumed that I had missed something earlier, but no, my first instincts were right. Something was indeed very wrong with this scene.. This Bond has an unnatural obsession with wanting to be understood.

Bounine wrote:
I would love Higson to write 5 or more books about Bond's adventures during WW2 (this, Higson has mentioned), then 5 or more post WW2 following Bond's recruitment into the service and his early assignments pre Casino Royale then regular books either set between his assignments during the 50's and 60's or post The Man With The Golden Gun. I wouldn't object to Higson writing contemporary Bond books but I think Bond's history in terms of the Fleming adventures should remain intact and referred to every once and a while with the dates altered as Deaver did regarding the death of Bond's parents.
Yep, I'd like to see Higson take over the whole property lock stock and barrel, either with period stories, consistent with the Fleming timeline or contemporary stories, ala Deaver but with a better handle on the character. There is nothing wrong with the new back story that Deaver has created for the character, so another author could pick up where he left off.
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PostSubject: Re: Carte Blanche reviews   Wed Aug 17, 2011 11:03 pm

From 'Junk Bonds: the folly of trying to imitate Ian Fleming'.

Quote :
Writing a James Bond novel? What could possibly be simpler? Surely all one needs is an arch, semi-meaningless title — something like ‘Never Kiss Death Goodbye’ — then a villain with a camply sinister name, a heroine with an even camper double-entendre for a name, a seasoning of sadism and you are away.

But it’s not that easy at all. If it is, then why have the writers who picked up Ian Fleming’s mantle got it so wrong? Even the class acts who have come closest to nailing the authentic 007 style — Kingsley Amis, John Pearson and Sebastian Faulks — have missed something small but crucial, as I shall explain.

It’s an odd thing, 007’s literary afterlife. No one would dream of taking P.G. Wodehouse’s Jeeves and Wooster and writing new novels around them. Fleming’s original novels — from Casino Royale to The Man with the Golden Gun — with all their bizarre jeopardy, exotic heroines and unheimlich villains, are fantastically distinctive and, yes, classic works of imaginative popular fiction. So why, nearly 50 years after Ian Fleming’s death, is literary Bond constantly hauled out for further embossed-cover missions of ever-increasing naffness?

There have been more than 20 novels since Fleming died in 1964. The latest is Carte Blanche, by the American thriller veteran Jeffery Deaver, who is due to write more. He clearly means well, but really. Here we have a necrophiliac villain, a girl called Ophelia Maidenstone, some novelty 21st-century new-mannish sensitivity — involving Bond avoiding sex — and an unusually unpleasant weapon of mass destruction. But there are other distractions for the reader: mainly in the form of politely over-researched yet misplaced English tics that would have made Fleming yelp.

Full article here
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Fairbairn-Sykes
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PostSubject: Re: Carte Blanche reviews   Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:29 am

Nice excerpt!!
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PostSubject: Re: Carte Blanche reviews   Thu Aug 18, 2011 11:47 am

Avarice wrote:
, a girl called Ophelia Maidenstone,

Is that supposed to be taking the high road with the names?

I think I like 'Clams' Casino, myself. Upon being introduced to Bond, somebody comes up behind 'Clams' with a knife and so Bond -- Savings Bond - says 'don't move a mussel.' (what can I say, I was still in my teens and liking some of Tom M.'s dialog before reverting back to Maibaum worship in adulthood.)

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PostSubject: Re: Carte Blanche reviews   Thu Aug 18, 2011 2:16 pm

Avarice wrote:
From 'Junk Bonds: the folly of trying to imitate Ian Fleming'.
Full article here

Thanks. Will read the full article. Great excerpt. Yep all the writer's have been off somewhat but that's to be expected however Deaver's, "novelty 21st-century new-mannish sensitivity" is just yecchy. Deaver I think has been watching too much Babs/Craig Bond.

btw I have done the math. There have been 23 post Fleming full length original adult-Bond novels. 14 John Gardner, 6 Ray Benson, 1 Amis, 1 Faulks and 1 Deaver.



I am not including screenplay adapts, MP Diaries, Young Bond or Pearson's fictionalized alternative take on the novel and screen legacy. If you include those too, then there have been 39 post Fleming Bond efforts.
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PostSubject: Re: Carte Blanche reviews   Thu Aug 18, 2011 5:53 pm

trevanian wrote:
I think I like 'Clams' Casino, myself. Upon being introduced to Bond, somebody comes up behind 'Clams' with a knife and so Bond -- Savings Bond - says 'don't move a mussel.' (what can I say, I was still in my teens and liking some of Tom M.'s dialog before reverting back to Maibaum worship in adulthood.)
Am I getting it right - his last name is Casino? That makes it even more awesome. laugh

That was an interesting suggestion at the end of that article, Amblarice - a female doing Bond. Perhaps what Bond needs is to be written the way a woman would want him.
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PostSubject: Re: Carte Blanche reviews   Thu Aug 18, 2011 7:59 pm

Louis Armstrong wrote:
Perhaps what Bond needs is to be written the way a woman would want him.
Isn't that what we're enduring right now under Bab's tenure?
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PostSubject: Re: Carte Blanche reviews   Thu Aug 18, 2011 9:14 pm

Thank you for sharing this article, Avarice. Interesting and for the most part spot on, I think. It only enscapes me what Sinclair McKay - that connoisseur of good old Hammer 'tits-and-fang' entertainment - found entertaining about Devil May Care. I myself found this to be the closest to a MAD parody the Fleming heirs ever published under their official imprint.

Carte Blanche itself failed to impress me at almost any level. As a Bond book it offers too little Bond, as a thriller too little thrills, and as a relaunch too much of the old baggage. I agree completely with the last paragraph, the only way to offer readers something worthwhile in Bond would be to try and place the character into new and unexplored country. And why not give a woman the next chance? It can hardly be more disappointing than this reboot or the by-the-numbers approach of Devil May Care.
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PostSubject: Re: Carte Blanche reviews   Thu Aug 18, 2011 9:59 pm

Avarice wrote:
Louis Armstrong wrote:
Perhaps what Bond needs is to be written the way a woman would want him.
Isn't that what we're enduring right now under Bab's tenure?

what are you talking about? Most men just naturally suck on a girl's fingers when she's feeling a little down. what else you going to do? :tongue:
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PostSubject: a   Fri Aug 19, 2011 12:52 am

Avarice wrote:
Louis Armstrong wrote:
Perhaps what Bond needs is to be written the way a woman would want him.
Isn't that what we're enduring right now under Bab's tenure?

I suppose it depends on the woman. Babs is one thing. That Bigelow dame who did The Hurt Locker is another. She's got bigger balls than Marc Forster, but then again, so does the average abalone.
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PostSubject: Re: Carte Blanche reviews   Fri Aug 19, 2011 5:41 am

Avarice wrote:
Louis Armstrong wrote:
Perhaps what Bond needs is to be written the way a woman would want him.
Isn't that what we're enduring right now under Bab's tenure?
I mean Bond as a man, not as a property. If that makes any sense.

Bigelow for Bond makes too much sense. Which probably means it won't happen.
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PostSubject: Re: Carte Blanche reviews   Fri Aug 19, 2011 9:09 am

A very good article. I would like to see Samantha Weinberg write a Bond book. I loved the Moneypenny trilogy. They are real atmospheric page turners. She doesn't seem to be a woman who is caught up in all this feminism but I might be wrong. The impression I get is that she knows how to write for a man.
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