Octopussy in Review

bitchcraft wrote:

I'm saying what comes out of his mouth sometimes makes him sound like one.

Comments about slashing his wrists, doing it for the money, and now being done with the role instead of promoting the film....all pathetic.

Take a page out of Dalton's book, and the Rog, who remained positive Ambassadors for the role long after they departed the gig. Craig is sometimes just plain old embarassing.

I agree. Was just attempting a joke, there. Dalts utters a certain line to Kara in TLD.

bitchcraft wrote:

Octopussy had a jaw-dropping moment when the horse's ass raises and the Bede BD-5 Micro rolls out.

No such moments in Craig films, the wow factor has gone. He sounds like a horse's ass sometimes but it's not the same.

GS wrote:

Who exactly does Magda work for? She works for the circus, but she's also Kamal's mistress?

This confused me initially as well. Especially when she says "he'll destroy the entire operation". It seemed like she knew was a bomb was going to go off, and yet was willing to stay - as in, a suicide mission. But maybe that was my fascination with TWINE seeping into OP as well.

Mr. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang wrote:

bitchcraft wrote:

Octopussy had a jaw-dropping moment when the horse's ass raises and the Bede BD-5 Micro rolls out.

No such moments in Craig films, the wow factor has gone. He sounds like a horse's ass sometimes but it's not the same.

GS wrote:

Who exactly does Magda work for? She works for the circus, but she's also Kamal's mistress?

This confused me initially as well. Especially when she says "he'll destroy the entire operation". It seemed like she knew was a bomb was going to go off, and yet was willing to stay - as in, a suicide mission. But maybe that was my fascination with TWINE seeping into OP as well.

OP's entire plot is a scrambled mess.

A 'scrambled' mess ... well, an egg IS integral to the plot .

Eggzactly...

See below.

How do you delete a post anyway?

Mr. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang wrote:

GS wrote:

Who exactly does Magda work for? She works for the circus, but she's also Kamal's mistress?

This confused me initially as well. Especially when she says "he'll destroy the entire operation". It seemed like she knew was a bomb was going to go off, and yet was willing to stay - as in, a suicide mission. But maybe that was my fascination with TWINE seeping into OP as well.

What it tells me is that Magda knew no more about the bomb than Octopussy did. She may have been a go-between for Octopussy and Kamal, but she was not privy to Kamal's side deal with Orlov for the bomb. To Magda, the 'entire operation' meant the jewelry smuggling pipeline. The only villains to ever volunteer to go up with their petard were Largo in NSNA - and even that didn't seem likely, and Renard. (Oddjob & May Day had no choice).

That's right, AMC. But on first viewing (and a few subsequent viewings also), it wasn't clear to me. She's a fascinating character played by an actress possibly too aloof to carry the weight of someone like Magda.

Perilagu Khan wrote:

Mr. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang wrote:

bitchcraft wrote:

Octopussy had a jaw-dropping moment when the horse's ass raises and the Bede BD-5 Micro rolls out.

No such moments in Craig films, the wow factor has gone. He sounds like a horse's ass sometimes but it's not the same.

GS wrote:

Who exactly does Magda work for? She works for the circus, but she's also Kamal's mistress?

This confused me initially as well. Especially when she says "he'll destroy the entire operation". It seemed like she knew was a bomb was going to go off, and yet was willing to stay - as in, a suicide mission. But maybe that was my fascination with TWINE seeping into OP as well.

OP's entire plot is a scrambled mess.

It does need some clarification to help with the first watch but I think it's one of the most effective Bond plots post-1969.

Mr. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang wrote:

bitchcraft wrote:

Octopussy had a jaw-dropping moment when the horse's ass raises and the Bede BD-5 Micro rolls out.

No such moments in Craig films, the wow factor has gone. He sounds like a horse's ass sometimes but it's not the same.

GS wrote:

Who exactly does Magda work for? She works for the circus, but she's also Kamal's mistress?

This confused me initially as well. Especially when she says "he'll destroy the entire operation". It seemed like she knew was a bomb was going to go off, and yet was willing to stay - as in, a suicide mission. But maybe that was my fascination with TWINE seeping into OP as well.

That line never made any sense. You just heard the man. A nuclear bomb is about to go off. If he's wrong, your jewelry smuggling operation will continue in one way or another. If he's right, you're going to disintegrate in 30 seconds from now. Why would this line ever come from her mouth?

I think Wayborn does speak that line, but then the part where she says 'Back to India" doesn't match her lips and I think it was dubbed in post...and I've closely examined her lips for purely professional reasons of course so I'm very confident i'm wright.

A better question might be: what does Kamal get out of all this? Kamal is the lead villain, Orlov the supporting villain, and Gobinda the henchman. We understand Orlov's motivation for setting up the bomb, but it's never attempted to explain why this would be any of Kamal's concern. By killing Octopussy he's killing off his pipeline, his golden goose. Is Orlov also hoping to shut down the smuggling pipleine now that he's got the money to get the bomb?

We're told Khan is an exiled Afghan prince...is he hoping Orlov helps get him back in power? I mean, what? What was Kamal's currency in the matter, so to speak? You'd think his business interests would at least allow for the saving of Octopussy and maybe Magda.

Regardless, you'll never find a better illustration of what it means to be in a "bond film" than seeing the sight of bikini clad, gun-toting women storming a castle and taking down the bad guys...Bond shooting the knob off the end of the bannister...Octopussy's Girls flirting with Q for saving their lives. Good, clean fun...and I was lucky to see it back in 1983 before today's spoiled, rotten 20-somethings ruined pop culture.

Mr. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang wrote:

Perilagu Khan wrote:

Mr. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang wrote:

bitchcraft wrote:

Octopussy had a jaw-dropping moment when the horse's ass raises and the Bede BD-5 Micro rolls out.

No such moments in Craig films, the wow factor has gone. He sounds like a horse's ass sometimes but it's not the same.

GS wrote:

Who exactly does Magda work for? She works for the circus, but she's also Kamal's mistress?

This confused me initially as well. Especially when she says "he'll destroy the entire operation". It seemed like she knew was a bomb was going to go off, and yet was willing to stay - as in, a suicide mission. But maybe that was my fascination with TWINE seeping into OP as well.

OP's entire plot is a scrambled mess.

It does need some clarification to help with the first watch but I think it's one of the most effective Bond plots post-1969.

As jumbled as it all is, the plot manages to generate a good deal of suspense. You just have to plow ahead and trust it'll all make sense in the end. And I feel much the same way about TLD.

Gravity's Silhouette wrote:

Mr. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang wrote:

bitchcraft wrote:

Octopussy had a jaw-dropping moment when the horse's ass raises and the Bede BD-5 Micro rolls out.

No such moments in Craig films, the wow factor has gone. He sounds like a horse's ass sometimes but it's not the same.

GS wrote:

Who exactly does Magda work for? She works for the circus, but she's also Kamal's mistress?

This confused me initially as well. Especially when she says "he'll destroy the entire operation". It seemed like she knew was a bomb was going to go off, and yet was willing to stay - as in, a suicide mission. But maybe that was my fascination with TWINE seeping into OP as well.

That line never made any sense. You just heard the man. A nuclear bomb is about to go off. If he's wrong, your jewelry smuggling operation will continue in one way or another. If he's right, you're going to disintegrate in 30 seconds from now. Why would this line ever come from her mouth?

I think Wayborn does speak that line, but then the part where she says 'Back to India" doesn't match her lips and I think it was dubbed in post...and I've closely examined her lips for purely professional reasons of course so I'm very confident i'm wright.

A better question might be: what does Kamal get out of all this? Kamal is the lead villain, Orlov the supporting villain, and Gobinda the henchman. We understand Orlov's motivation for setting up the bomb, but it's never attempted to explain why this would be any of Kamal's concern. By killing Octopussy he's killing off his pipeline, his golden goose. Is Orlov also hoping to shut down the smuggling pipleine now that he's got the money to get the bomb?

We're told Khan is an exiled Afghan prince...is he hoping Orlov helps get him back in power? I mean, what? What was Kamal's currency in the matter, so to speak? You'd think his business interests would at least allow for the saving of Octopussy and maybe Magda.

Regardless, you'll never find a better illustration of what it means to be in a "bond film" than seeing the sight of bikini clad, gun-toting women storming a castle and taking down the bad guys...Bond shooting the knob off the end of the bannister...Octopussy's Girls flirting with Q for saving their lives. Good, clean fun...and I was lucky to see it back in 1983 before today's spoiled, rotten 20-somethings ruined pop culture.

Hmm... Magda might believe Bond is saying whatever to sabotage their smuggling operation. Being on the periphery of Kamal's circle, the only talk she probably heard of were jewels, not atomic bombs.

Orlov doesn't get the money to buy the bomb - they've already got the bomb. Kamal gets the riches and retires to seclusion. Orlov's goal is purely ideological.

Perilagu Khan wrote:

Mr. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang wrote:

Perilagu Khan wrote:

Mr. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang wrote:

bitchcraft wrote:

Octopussy had a jaw-dropping moment when the horse's ass raises and the Bede BD-5 Micro rolls out.

No such moments in Craig films, the wow factor has gone. He sounds like a horse's ass sometimes but it's not the same.

GS wrote:

Who exactly does Magda work for? She works for the circus, but she's also Kamal's mistress?

This confused me initially as well. Especially when she says "he'll destroy the entire operation". It seemed like she knew was a bomb was going to go off, and yet was willing to stay - as in, a suicide mission. But maybe that was my fascination with TWINE seeping into OP as well.

OP's entire plot is a scrambled mess.

It does need some clarification to help with the first watch but I think it's one of the most effective Bond plots post-1969.

As jumbled as it all is, the plot manages to generate a good deal of suspense. You just have to plow ahead and trust it'll all make sense in the end. And I feel much the same way about TLD.

The plot is about some amazing hot lesbians half naked living on an island with Octopussy. all that stuff about spies, bombs and jewels is just pointless filler

Sarai wrote:

Perilagu Khan wrote:

Mr. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang wrote:

Perilagu Khan wrote:

Mr. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang wrote:

bitchcraft wrote:

Octopussy had a jaw-dropping moment when the horse's ass raises and the Bede BD-5 Micro rolls out.

No such moments in Craig films, the wow factor has gone. He sounds like a horse's ass sometimes but it's not the same.

GS wrote:

Who exactly does Magda work for? She works for the circus, but she's also Kamal's mistress?

This confused me initially as well. Especially when she says "he'll destroy the entire operation". It seemed like she knew was a bomb was going to go off, and yet was willing to stay - as in, a suicide mission. But maybe that was my fascination with TWINE seeping into OP as well.

OP's entire plot is a scrambled mess.

It does need some clarification to help with the first watch but I think it's one of the most effective Bond plots post-1969.

As jumbled as it all is, the plot manages to generate a good deal of suspense. You just have to plow ahead and trust it'll all make sense in the end. And I feel much the same way about TLD.

 The plot is about some amazing hot lesbians half naked living on an island with Octopussy. all that stuff about spies, bombs and jewels is just pointless filler

We see what we want to see ... .

I would have been better directed by Tinto Brass or Jess Franco.

I'll be in my bunk ...

Gobinda is easily the most underrated henchman of the series. I love the humor and amusement in his eyes.

Kemal is terrific, too, of course. Vijay, as well.

However, Magda and Octopussy leave me cold. The least sexy combo of Bond girls in any film.

And OP just succumbs to silliness from the end of the golf cart chase onward. It may be sillier than MR, but without as many compensations. Additionally, much of the dialogue is stilted, Barry's score and the title track are generic and dull, the Bond/Moneypenny scene is the worst in series history, and moreso than AVTAK, the series feels tired in this one. I rate it above DAD only.

From the tuk tuk chase until Germany does it descend into silliness but it finds its focus again as soon as we hit Berlin, providing us with some of Roger's best moments as Bond (or at least his era).

I disagree about Gobinda and wouldn't call Vijay terrific. He's too lightweight, despite the effective death scene. I like Octopussy as a character but was miscast. I think Magda is stunning but the above conversation highlighted, there needed to be more clarity to her character. These girls far outshine the Craig era women, sans Severine.

I'm from India originally and love the scenes in India in this Bond film, and Khan is a cool villain. Everyone loves those knife-twins, and Moore is a fine Bond in this aged outing, I think. India is both exotic and strange visually, which is why I commend the imagery selection and camera-work in Octopussy. This is way better than the Indiana Jones film set in India, Temple of Doom.

As per the title referencing the Bond woman named Octopussy, there're implicit references to the idea of sensous danger and physical prowess and of course seduction/deception, but there're also implicit references to the concept of the insertion of 'leviathan' in villainy. Leviathan is a sea-beast of chaos, and the fact that the Bond girl is named Octopussy, referencing some kind of misshapen 'creature' I think is a great homage to the notion of the evolution of the conceptual presentation of villainesses in film. Maybe we're becoming more paranoid about the gender of evil, eh?

Plenty of potential for fan-workups here, right?




====

BOND: Gee, I wonder what your name implies, my dear.
OCTOPUSSY: Whatever you imagine!
BOND: Terrorism?
OCTOPUSSY: How about empire?
BOND: Empire sounds deformed.

====


"Money is everything" (Ecclesiastes)

Incidentally, I'm new to the forum, but I'm really thrilled to contribute and this one's my favorite Bond film by far. I love those sarees in this one, right? If you're into that.

I'm a fan of mod British writing (Ian Fleming) and the classics too, and Bond is way cooler than Ethan Hunt (Mission: Impossible).

Excited to post --- and look for my fan-writes!

Cheers,

Gravity's Silhouette wrote:

But after having watched it again, I do wonder:

Where did Mischa's body go? Bond put it in the cannon, but later Francisco the Fearless jumps in it at the circus and presumably does not find the body. I could've sworn there was a scene in the theatrical release where Bond fires Mischa's body out of the cannon while the train is in motion, but I may be mis-remembering that. Nobody seems to miss Mischa either. Did Grishca just assume he'd gotten left behind in East Germany?

What you mis-remember, despite having just watched the film again, is that there were two identical rail cars - two identical cannons, etc. Instead of just swapping the jewelry for the bomb, Orlov and Kamal switched the entire car. Convoluted, I know, but it means Mishka was left behind in Karl Marxstad.

Grishka assumes there was only one way for Bond to have appropriated Mishka's costume, hence "And this for my brother!" Grishka died not knowing what the hell "and that's for 009!" was supposed to mean, since he was not privy to MI6's code names.