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 Quantum of Solace in Review

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Perilagu Khan
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PostSubject: Re: Quantum of Solace in Review   Fri Apr 22, 2011 12:27 am

The consensus--outside of BaB anyway--is correct on QOS: not brilliant but hardly dire, either. This is a middling Bond film, which makes it a smashing improvement over DAD and a solid leap over TWINE, although hardly a patch on CR.

The primary problems with this film are threefold. First, it is entirely grim and humorless. DN is also humorless, but it is not unremittingly dour. QOS is. Second, too much of the film is set in seedy, unappealing settings: Haiti and Bolivia come across appropriately blighted. Bond films should should never be anti-travelogue. Call this one Quantum of Squallor. Third, QOS interjects politics into Bond's bloodstream far more than any Bond film in history. This is a foolish innovation and proof positive that all change is not improvement. We can only hope it does not serve as precedent.

On the plus side is an inventive and what may prove highly prophetic plot, excellent acting all the way around, the Tosca sequence, which has proved an instant classic, and a very strong conclusion which sends the viewer off on a high note.
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Jack Wade
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PostSubject: Re: Quantum of Solace in Review   Fri Apr 22, 2011 1:56 am

Stilicho Bias wrote:
The consensus--outside of BaB anyway--is correct on QOS: not brilliant but hardly dire, either. This is a middling Bond film, which makes it a smashing improvement over DAD and a solid leap over TWINE, although hardly a patch on CR.
Agreed.

I find it baffling when people call this film worse than "Die Another Day." Is "Quantum" one of the best Bond films? I say no. But it does it ever sink to the depths of tsunami surfing and invisible cars? Not at all.

I'd place "Quantum" right in the middle of the pantheon, though I was a lot higher on "Quantum" at first. After repeated viewings, it just felt insignificant to me. You can tell it was rushed.

I think this one takes itself a little too seriously. Plus, Greene is underused and somewhat boring. The locales are dour. There's far too much action, and parts of that dogfight triggered memories of "Die Another Day." And, of course, I don't need to go on about the editing.

Regardless, I'd still place this over much of the Moore and Brosnan Bonds. I think if this film had a little more time to gestate, gave the story time to breathe and didn't cut to a different shot every other second, it would have been a much better film than just a middling-level Bond film as it stands.
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PostSubject: Re: Quantum of Solace in Review   Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:35 am

Jack Wade wrote:

I find it baffling when people call this film worse than "Die Another Day." Is "Quantum" one of the best Bond films? I say no. But it does it ever sink to the depths of tsunami surfing and invisible cars? Not at all.

I found the free fall sequence just as cartoonish.
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GeneralGogol
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PostSubject: Re: Quantum of Solace in Review   Fri Apr 22, 2011 11:27 am

CJB wrote:
Jack Wade wrote:

I find it baffling when people call this film worse than "Die Another Day." Is "Quantum" one of the best Bond films? I say no. But it does it ever sink to the depths of tsunami surfing and invisible cars? Not at all.

I found the free fall sequence just as cartoonish.

It wasn't one of the film's most successful scenes, but it was still in the realm of Bondian stunts. For the most part, the third act of QOS was brisk, well-grounded, focused, and more satisfying than the beginning of the film. DAD was the opposite... a promising opening act was ultimately betrayed by a consistently ridiculous climax.
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Perilagu Khan
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PostSubject: w   Fri Apr 22, 2011 11:45 pm

GeneralGogol wrote:
CJB wrote:
Jack Wade wrote:

I find it baffling when people call this film worse than "Die Another Day." Is "Quantum" one of the best Bond films? I say no. But it does it ever sink to the depths of tsunami surfing and invisible cars? Not at all.

I found the free fall sequence just as cartoonish.

It wasn't one of the film's most successful scenes, but it was still in the realm of Bondian stunts. For the most part, the third act of QOS was brisk, well-grounded, focused, and more satisfying than the beginning of the film. DAD was the opposite... a promising opening act was ultimately betrayed by a consistently ridiculous climax.

True. But, as shaky--so to speak--as QOS' first act was, I don't think it was anywhere near so awful as the final 3/4 of DAD. Again, to me there's just no comparison between the two films, despite the problems I do have with QOS.
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PostSubject: Re: Quantum of Solace in Review   Fri Apr 22, 2011 11:51 pm

Khan, your main problem is that your viewing is out of context. You need to watch the first two Bourne movies (the second one in particular) to see what Eon was trying to do with QoS, and quite how badly it failed.
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Salomé
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PostSubject: Re: Quantum of Solace in Review   Sat Apr 23, 2011 12:18 am

It's one thing for them to feel the need to copy Bourne.

But if they then botch the execution of their rip-off so terribly that it becomes apparent they had no clue about what made the first two Bourne movies work... :evil:
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Perilagu Khan
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PostSubject: w   Sat Apr 23, 2011 12:33 am

ambler wrote:
Khan, your main problem is that your viewing is out of context. You need to watch the first two Bourne movies (the second one in particular) to see what Eon was trying to do with QoS, and quite how badly it failed.

We all have a different context, Ambler. Fortunately, my context allows me to enjoy QOS. I don't think I want to change that, and I know I don't want to patronize anything with which Matt Damon is associated.
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PostSubject: Re: Quantum of Solace in Review   Sat Apr 23, 2011 12:36 am

Stilicho Bias wrote:
ambler wrote:
Khan, your main problem is that your viewing is out of context. You need to watch the first two Bourne movies (the second one in particular) to see what Eon was trying to do with QoS, and quite how badly it failed.

We all have a different context, Ambler. Fortunately, my context allows me to enjoy QOS. I don't think I want to change that, and I know I don't want to patronize anything with which Matt Damon is associated.

Know your enemy, Khan. Strengths and weaknesses.
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PostSubject: Re: Quantum of Solace in Review   Sat Apr 23, 2011 1:13 am

Stilicho Bias wrote:
ambler wrote:
Khan, your main problem is that your viewing is out of context. You need to watch the first two Bourne movies (the second one in particular) to see what Eon was trying to do with QoS, and quite how badly it failed.

We all have a different context, Ambler. Fortunately, my context allows me to enjoy QOS. I don't think I want to change that, and I know I don't want to patronize anything with which Matt Damon is associated.

It's hardly like Damon's political views influenced Bourne.
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PostSubject: Re: Quantum of Solace in Review   Sat Apr 23, 2011 1:20 am

Salomé wrote:
It's hardly like Damon's political views influenced Bourne.
Even if they did, it doesn't alter the fact that they're bloody good films. The first two, at least.
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PostSubject: Re: Quantum of Solace in Review   Sat Apr 23, 2011 1:22 am

ambler wrote:
Stilicho Bias wrote:
ambler wrote:
Khan, your main problem is that your viewing is out of context. You need to watch the first two Bourne movies (the second one in particular) to see what Eon was trying to do with QoS, and quite how badly it failed.

We all have a different context, Ambler. Fortunately, my context allows me to enjoy QOS. I don't think I want to change that, and I know I don't want to patronize anything with which Matt Damon is associated.

Know your enemy, Khan. Strengths and weaknesses.

Yes. I even think viewing the Bourne films might him to further document liberal Hollywood's seditious antI-American complex, in the guise of the modern action thriller.
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PostSubject: Re: Quantum of Solace in Review   Sat Apr 23, 2011 1:28 am

ambler wrote:
Salomé wrote:
It's hardly like Damon's political views influenced Bourne.

Even if they did, it doesn't alter the fact that they're bloody good films. The first two, at least.

Even discounting Moby, John Powells' scores outclass Arnold's by a quite wide margin. Especially this hypnotic cue from the inferior third film.

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Perilagu Khan
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PostSubject: a   Sat Apr 23, 2011 2:50 am

Salomé wrote:
Stilicho Bias wrote:
ambler wrote:
Khan, your main problem is that your viewing is out of context. You need to watch the first two Bourne movies (the second one in particular) to see what Eon was trying to do with QoS, and quite how badly it failed.

We all have a different context, Ambler. Fortunately, my context allows me to enjoy QOS. I don't think I want to change that, and I know I don't want to patronize anything with which Matt Damon is associated.

It's hardly like Damon's political views influenced Bourne.

Your dismissive certitude--almost that of an insider--is most interesting.
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Perilagu Khan
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PostSubject: d   Sat Apr 23, 2011 2:51 am

Sharky wrote:
ambler wrote:
Stilicho Bias wrote:
ambler wrote:
Khan, your main problem is that your viewing is out of context. You need to watch the first two Bourne movies (the second one in particular) to see what Eon was trying to do with QoS, and quite how badly it failed.

We all have a different context, Ambler. Fortunately, my context allows me to enjoy QOS. I don't think I want to change that, and I know I don't want to patronize anything with which Matt Damon is associated.

Know your enemy, Khan. Strengths and weaknesses.

Yes. I even think viewing the Bourne films might him to further document liberal Hollywood's seditious antI-American complex, in the guise of the modern action thriller.

I don't have the heart for such a project. Documenting this phenomenon in academia was nauseating enough. Probably knocked five years off my life.
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PostSubject: Re: Quantum of Solace in Review   Sat Apr 23, 2011 2:55 am

Stilicho Bias wrote:
Salomé wrote:
Stilicho Bias wrote:
ambler wrote:
Khan, your main problem is that your viewing is out of context. You need to watch the first two Bourne movies (the second one in particular) to see what Eon was trying to do with QoS, and quite how badly it failed.

We all have a different context, Ambler. Fortunately, my context allows me to enjoy QOS. I don't think I want to change that, and I know I don't want to patronize anything with which Matt Damon is associated.

It's hardly like Damon's political views influenced Bourne.

Your dismissive certitude--almost that of an insider--is most interesting.

I have no idea what you mean by this... :shock:

What aspect of Damon's political views shone through in the Bourne movies? Whatever you might be alluding to, it must not have been very obvious, since I can't think of a single scene or bit of dialogue...
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Perilagu Khan
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PostSubject: Re: Quantum of Solace in Review   Sat Apr 23, 2011 3:00 am

As I alluded to earlier, I have not seen the Bourne films, but their reputation for Leftist, anti-American agitprop is known to all and sundry, far and wide. Likewise, Damon's Chomskyite anti-Americanism is common knowledge.

Is it mere coincidence that Damon hooked up with the Bourne series? Or is it more likely that the producers and Damon gravitated toward one another, in part, because they share an identical worldview and that this community of opinion drove the films ever more leftward during production?

I do not know claim to know, but think the latter more probable. And at any rate, I consider your out-of-hand dismissal of this possibility to be naive in the extreme, and possibly self-serving.
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PostSubject: Re: Quantum of Solace in Review   Sat Apr 23, 2011 3:02 am

And it's not just Damon. Greengrass, Clooney, Penn, Gilroy, Haggis, Soderbergh and co, are birds of the same feather.
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PostSubject: Re: Quantum of Solace in Review   Sat Apr 23, 2011 3:38 am

Stilicho Bias wrote:
I do not know claim to know, but think the latter more probable. And at any rate, I consider your out-of-hand dismissal of this possibility to be naive in the extreme, and possibly self-serving.

To what purpose? Have you deluded yourself into believing I share Damon's world view? :roll:

Unlike you I have seen the Bourne movies and they never appeared in the least bit political to me. They're character-driven spy thrillers with some high-octane action sequences thrown in. Damon wasn't even the first actor approached for the role.

Frankly I find your attack on me for failing to discover the Leftist angle in those movies a bit distasteful. I'm done with this discussion.
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PostSubject: Re: Quantum of Solace in Review   Sat Apr 23, 2011 4:01 am

Khan don't take no prisoners.
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PostSubject: Re: Quantum of Solace in Review   Sat Apr 23, 2011 4:02 am

Sharky wrote:
Khan don't take no prisoners.

Khan needs to choose his targets more carefully.
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PostSubject: Re: Quantum of Solace in Review   Sat Apr 23, 2011 4:02 am

Khan, you should be able to enjoy the first two Bourne movies regardless of their politics, which is much milder than anything in QoS. To ignore them because of Damon's politics is crazy as he's considerably to the right of Craig.

Sharkus, my favourite cue is Bourne on land:

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PostSubject: Re: Quantum of Solace in Review   Sat Apr 23, 2011 4:09 am

Yes, let's steer clear of criticizing each other's worldviews. Like Salomé, I find the hoopla about the politics of Bourne to be exaggerated. Political
mudslinging and fingerpointing at Osama-worshipping commie heretics like Damon should be done in a different thread.

In any case, I strongly disagree with the belief that QOS may be seen only in the context of the Bourne influence. Yes, those are good films that have strongly impacted the action thriller genre, but to me CR and QOS are both more successful, interesting, and entertaining flicks than the Greengrass Bournes. While Identity (and Supremacy to a degree) is always an enjoyable watch, as it has a nicely textured storyline and bears at least an ounce of resemblance to Ludlum's novel, I find that Ultimatum doesn't hold up as well on repeat viewings. Despite the faults of QOS, I still find it a better film and wholly enjoyable on its own merits.
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PostSubject: Re: Quantum of Solace in Review   Sat Apr 23, 2011 4:31 am

Ambler: That's another good one. Pretty evocative with the train through the Alps. I can't remember, does that traveling theme reappear in SUPREMACY and ULTIMATUM?

Quote :
o ignore them because of Damon's politics is crazy as he's considerably to the right of Craig.

I'm not sure what you mean this, ambler. It's common knowledge that Damon, Clooney and co are as to the left as any in Hollywood. A bunch of naive ideologues. Craig is fairly mild in comparison, though that may be his undoing, since he's less likely to speak out against any left or right content in his screenplays.
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PostSubject: Re: Quantum of Solace in Review   Sat Apr 23, 2011 4:33 am

There's much more to cinema than this left-right bazaar shit.
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