Previous Debate: Are the current team paving the way for a gay Bond?

Drax wrote:

Apart from the score Grace Jones' performance/character was the most genuinely original/interesting aspect of the movie.

Yep, she was a good henchwoman in the classic Bond tradition, of Oddjob, Jaws etc.

tilly wrote:

Signing out on this, it's been an education in futility - faux understanding is rather transparent.

R-Dud's little nephew?

Bye bye titty. Sadder words never spoken.

Santa wrote:

I'm getting confused now. I thought the whole gay subtext thing was a joke but I'm starting to wonder if some people on here are serious.

Some people are taking it as a joke and some aren't.

That is all.

Yes. I just can't quite get over the idea that anyone would take it seriously.

Santa wrote:

Yes. I just can't quite get over the idea that anyone would take it seriously.

Depends upon your definition of "seriously".

As TiffanyWint mentioned before, the subtext isn't meant for everyone. I would assume that lesbian viewers (I'm guessing there are a few) would have picked up on Brink's attraction to Bebe, or the homosexual undertones of Red Grant telling Bond to 'kiss his boot' (I can't remember the exact line). There's a lot of "hidden" stuff in the films and in the books. I mean, if there weren't we'd have less to discuss.

By the way, how does this debate thingy work? How do the questions get decided? Who puts up the poll? Is it anyone or just a moderator?

Gravity's Silhouette wrote:

By the way, how does this debate thingy work? How do the questions get decided? Who puts up the poll? Is it anyone or just a moderator?

Anyone can post a debate topic, it's basically first-come first-served once the current topic has been up for a week. The topic poster can add a poll as well if they wish to. Then a mod stickies the new topic as "this week's debate", and the prior topic becomes a "previous debate", yet a debate still left open for future contributions.

Gravity's Silhouette wrote:

the homosexual undertones of Red Grant telling Bond to 'kiss his boot' (I can't remember the exact line).

Always took that to be more of a class thing.

Avarice wrote:

Gravity's Silhouette wrote:

the homosexual undertones of Red Grant telling Bond to 'kiss his boot' (I can't remember the exact line).

Always took that to be more of a class thing.

Taken from my post over in the DAD thread:
------------------------------------------------
Examples: Verity (the only one dressed in black) appears to have some sort of crush on Miranda, telling Bond that she's "gorgeous". When Miranda removes her helmet she looks back to Verity for approval. Is Miranda in love with Verity? Later M questions Miranda about her personal life and seems somewhat dubious that Miranda has turned down repeated sexual overtures from other 00-agents. M lets Miranda's answer hang in the air without challenging it.

Graves uses Miranda for her sex, but there's no suggestion that the two were lovers. Miranda is so cold and aloof towards both Bond and even Graves that one has to wonder what her deal is. She doesn't mind being used sexually by Graves, but she seems almost disgusted at having anything to do with Bond. I remember wondering when I first saw the film if there was something between Moon and Zao. When Zao reunites with Moon in Iceland, Moon invades Zao's personal space, touching his face and feeling his skin, but then the scene ends.

There's also the part of Moon which finds Bond disgusting and is therefore used to create the Graves persona, but why does Moon/Graves find Bond so disgusting? Is he attracted to Bond? Is there something about Bond that Graves sees in himself that he wants to expunge? There was no subtlety in the sword fight and it doesn't take Freud to psychoanalyze the scene because Verity tells the audience exactly what it is: a "cock fight". Remember, she says she has no interest in watching or being a part of a "cock fight", lending further credence to the idea that Verity is probably lesbian. There's a homoerotic aspect to the fight, as Graves strips down to wield his sword and fight it out with Bond. We all know what the swords are meant to represent.

Anyone automatically wanting to dismiss some of these ideas should also remember that Tamahori was arrested for soliciting sex from an undercover male cop..........while dressed as a woman. You think Tamahori didn't work some of those issues out, or into, Die Another Day? I think he slipped in some little question marks regarding these characters.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Any class issues in this one? There could be between Graves and Bond (or Graves' hostility comes from being part of a poor, third world country), but I think the writers were suggesting Verity was full-on lesbian and was in love with Miranda (I could understand why: Rosamund Pike is fine).

Definite lesbian undertones in DAD as you say. Between Graves and Bond I'd say yes, a class issue. Graves says his remodelling was based on Bond. Can't remember the exact quote now, but it's to ease his entry into the British establishment and bring it down from within, something the UK has been susceptible to in the real world with the largely homosexual Cambridge Spy ring. (Outsiders sometimes seek to destroy that from which they feel excluded.)

DAD is a much better film that it's given credit for, depsite its many deficiencies.

I seem to recall a rumour to the effect that once Madonna found out that Verity wouldn't be sleeping with Bond, she demanded that if they still wanted her to cameo they'd have to rewrite Verity as lesbian.

Blunt Instrument wrote:

I seem to recall a rumour to the effect that once Madonna found out that Verity wouldn't be sleeping with Bond, she demanded that if they still wanted her to cameo they'd have to rewrite Verity as lesbian.

I remember the rumor that she turned down doing the title song to THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS because the producers couldn't, or wouldn't, give Sean Penn a role (this was before he became a respected actor and was known mostly for playing in FAST AND FURIOUS TIMES AT RIDGEMONT HIGH; this was also about the time that SHANGHAI SURPRISE came out, bombed, and was critically reviled)

So it seems Madonna always comes with preconditions....except having a vocal range and any actual singing talent.

Avarice wrote:

DAD is a much better film that it's given credit for, depsite its many deficiencies.

Indeed. In some ways it's the least pretentious and most fun of the Brosnan outings, and I'd certainly take it over QUANTUM OF DULLNESS.

Loomis wrote:

Avarice wrote:

DAD is a much better film that it's given credit for, depsite its many deficiencies.

Indeed. In some ways it's the least pretentious and most fun of the Brosnan outings, and I'd certainly take it over QUANTUM OF DULLNESS.

I've always thought DAD had some kinda funky vibe lurking under the surface. It's a decent Bond film. It does't pretend to be anything else, which is refreshing in and of itself.

Brozzer IMO is also at his most relaxed as Bond.

And the fact that it was dressed by a cross-dressing male isn't a bad thing if you like a little flair and camp in your Bond brew.

Looks like somebody needs to start a DAD appreciation thread.

Sounds good to me, allthough I can't be arsed to start one myself. I've always loved DIE ANOTHER DAY. Never had the slightest problem with it, although I know that a great many Bond fans view it as the work of the devil for a variety of reasons.

Loomis wrote:

Sounds good to me, allthough I can't be arsed to start one myself. I've always loved DIE ANOTHER DAY. Never had the slightest problem with it, although I know that a great many Bond fans view it as the work of the devil for a variety of reasons.

I'll start a DAD-appreciation thread. Check for it in a few minutes.

Time for a new debate guys and gals. Any thoughts?

Sharky wrote:

Time for a new debate guys and gals. Any thoughts?

I've got an idea. I'll have it up in a moment.

Mrs Aural Sects wrote:

Those who think I'm racist can kiss my ass.

I accept...


I don't think they're paving the way for a gay Bond. But, if they did introduce a gay Bond, I know that it wouldn't bother the average theater-goer. After all, that's so deep and emotional and open-minded and stuff.

There's a big difference between the average movie-goer and the average Hollywood PC overlord. And the overlords ignore that fact at their own peril.

Better disable their Gulfstreams first.

By "peril" I mean sliding so far down the social ladder that they no longer get invited over to Matt Damon's for mojitos, blow and the latest self-made videogram from Hugo Chavez.

Kind of surprised this thread didn't pop back up after SF was released, with all the stuff with everyone thinking the "what makes you think it's my first time?" was paving the way for a gay Bond.

Don't forget GayQ.