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 The Die Hard Series

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Loomis
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PostSubject: The Die Hard Series   The Die Hard Series EmptyFri Sep 02, 2011 1:51 am

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/51043

I'm a big fan of the DIE HARD franchise. There's not a duffer in the bunch, although LIVE FREE OR DIE HARD/DIE HARD 4.0 is certainly the weakest outing, although it's still reasonably entertaining fare.

The first DIE HARD is not merely one of the greatest action films of all time (and without question one of the most influential films of the past 25 years) but one of the best films ever made. The best of the sequels? DIE HARD 2, for my money.

An interesting article on why the first DIE HARD works so well and why DIE HARD 5 ought to scale things back in order to recapture the magic (which doesn't seem on the cards, judging by reports of Russian locations and a new sidekick in the shape of - wait for it - McClane's son :roll: sad

http://www.npr.org/blogs/monkeysee/2011/09/01/140110722/take-this-under-advisement-hey-die-hard-5-dont-drag-down-a-classic
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Harmsway
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PostSubject: Re: The Die Hard Series   The Die Hard Series EmptyFri Sep 02, 2011 3:19 am

I find LIVE FREE OR DIE HARD as listless and uninspiring as many find KINGDOM OF THE CRYSTAL SKULL.
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PostSubject: Re: The Die Hard Series   The Die Hard Series EmptyFri Sep 02, 2011 4:09 am

Harmsway wrote:
I find LIVE FREE OR DIE HARD as listless and uninspiring as many find KINGDOM OF THE CRYSTAL SKULL.

Agreed, and then some. I'd go as far as to say that I plain don't like it at all, having enjoyed the previous three films (though admittedly to ever-lessening degrees with each successive film). Although I do agree with Loomis in finding Die Hard 2 the best of the sequels, and by quite some margin IMO.

Die Hard 5? I don't hold out much hope for it, and can't see it being "scaled back" in any real way. Plus, the "tone it down to get a 12a certificate", "dumb it down and include geeks to draw the kids in", the presence of CGI and the absence of both Michael Kamen and Bruce Willis' barnet will, as was the case last time, be major obstacles which should once more prevent the series getting back on form.

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The White Tuxedo
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PostSubject: Re: The Die Hard Series   The Die Hard Series EmptyFri Sep 02, 2011 6:59 am

I have a title: DIE HARD ALREADY.

The Die Hard Series Beating-a-dead-horse

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Loomis
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PostSubject: Re: The Die Hard Series   The Die Hard Series EmptyFri Sep 02, 2011 7:00 pm

Supposedly Willis plans to do DIE HARDs 5 and 6 before calling it a day.

Is Willis the new George Lucas? I wonder whether the DIE HARD franchise will end up resembling the STAR WARS franchise: three excellent (or at least above-average) films followed by three vastly inferior outings stuffed with CGI and annoying sidekicks and ineptly targeted at a younger audience.

Still, a part of me is glad that Willis is still McClane and that they're still sequelising the original as opposed to remaking it (and, hey, there's always a chance that 5 will be a huge improvement on LIVE FREE...., even though the signs don't look too promising at the moment). Better this than a DIE HARD reboot with Tyler Lautner or someone as McClane and Michael Sheen as Hans Gruber.

BTW, anyone here read the DIE HARD: YEAR ONE comic that came out, I think, a year or two ago? What's it like?


Last edited by Loomis on Fri Sep 02, 2011 7:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: The Die Hard Series   The Die Hard Series EmptyFri Sep 02, 2011 7:01 pm

DIE HARD ON
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PostSubject: Re: The Die Hard Series   The Die Hard Series EmptyFri Sep 02, 2011 7:03 pm

Loomis wrote:
Is Willis the new George Lucas? I wonder whether the DIE HARD franchise will end up resembling the STAR WARS franchise: three excellent (or at least above-average) films
Bless your heart :D

I think you should bring back the Stallone avatar.
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PostSubject: Re: The Die Hard Series   The Die Hard Series EmptyFri Sep 02, 2011 8:08 pm

Die Hard 5 should just be Bruce Willis breaking John McTiernan out of jail to make Die Hard 6.
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PostSubject: Re: The Die Hard Series   The Die Hard Series EmptyFri Sep 02, 2011 8:38 pm

Tubes wrote:
Die Hard 5 should just be Bruce Willis breaking John McTiernan out of jail to make Die Hard 6.

:*h*: :lol!:

Wouldn't that make the film THE ROCK 2?

I remember Bruce Willis saying the only way he'd do a 3rd Die Hard film was if they (the studio) wheeled his cold, dead corpse onto the set, and now we're discussing 5 and 6. I don't think Willis is going to become the George Lucas of actors, because Willis has some talent, but also has enough sense not to try and exceed his limitations by writing the DIE HARD films...or directing them. Can't say the same for Lucas.
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PostSubject: Re: The Die Hard Series   The Die Hard Series EmptyFri Sep 02, 2011 8:59 pm

Mr. Brown wrote:
DIE HARD ON

Die Häagen-Dazs

It will do well in Germany.
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PostSubject: Re: The Die Hard Series   The Die Hard Series EmptyFri Sep 02, 2011 9:06 pm

Avarice wrote:
Mr. Brown wrote:
DIE HARD ON

Die Häagen-Dazs

It will do well in Germany.

What about:

DIE HARDER ANOTHER DAY

LIVE AND LET DIE HARD

LIVE TWICE AND DIE HARD

TOMORROW NEVER DIES HARD

I smell a Bond vs. McClane film collaboration coming.
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PostSubject: Re: The Die Hard Series   The Die Hard Series EmptyFri Sep 02, 2011 9:23 pm

WHY CAN'T YOU JUST BE A GOOD BOY AND DIE HARD?
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Loomis
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PostSubject: Re: The Die Hard Series   The Die Hard Series EmptyFri Sep 02, 2011 11:10 pm

Gravity's Silhouette wrote:
I don't think Willis is going to become the George Lucas of actors, because Willis has some talent, but also has enough sense not to try and exceed his limitations by writing the DIE HARD films...or directing them. Can't say the same for Lucas.

Well, it does seem as though Willis has started to seize the creative reins on the DIE HARD series, and that this was really evident around the time of LIVE FREE OR DIE HARD. I guess this is only to be expected - when tempting a major star with his pick of projects back to his old franchise (it had been twelve years since DIE HARD WITH A VENGEANCE), not even a multimillion-dollar payday is always enough.

So while Willis hasn't been writing or directing the DIE HARDs, it appears that his creative clout on the series has risen considerably (he's become a backseat driver, if you will) and that, as with Lucas, he's developed some very questionable opinions regarding what's good for them. Don't forget that Willis has uttered statements to the effect that LIVE FREE OR DIE HARD is the best film of the series (!) and that it wouldn't be possible to continue the series without Len Wiseman and Justin Long (although he's clearly changed his mind on that second point). Okay, so it was round about the time he was promoting LIVE FREE OR DIE HARD, so I guess it was natural that he'd want to big up the latest outing, but still.... Such worrying statements make one wonder whether he even watched the first DIE HARD, never mind helped make it!

It reminds me of how, as his tenure as Bond lengthened, Brosnan was increasingly prone to making public pronouncements on what should happen with future films, making many fans feel that, while he may have been pretty good at playing Bond, he needed to be kept well away from any large creative role on the franchise.
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PostSubject: Re: The Die Hard Series   The Die Hard Series EmptyFri Sep 02, 2011 11:38 pm

Loomis wrote:
Don't forget that Willis has uttered statements to the effect that LIVE FREE OR DIE HARD is the best film of the series (!) and that it wouldn't be possible to continue the series without Len Wiseman and Justin Long (although he's clearly changed his mind on that second point). Okay, so it was round about the time he was promoting LIVE FREE OR DIE HARD, so I guess it was natural that he'd want to big up the latest outing, but still.... Such worrying statements make one wonder whether he even watched the first DIE HARD, never mind helped make it!

You answered your own hypothesis. That was nothing more than public relations, marketing talking points. Never, ever did I believe one word of it. Justin Long integral to the future of the DIE HARD series? Really? LOL! Maybe he was just being modest. Bruce Willis is the key to DIE HARD, and maybe McTiernan. But that's it.

And, quite frankly, I think Willis is too old for this. What made DIE HARD so special can't be replicated, and each sequel has shown steadily diminishing returns.
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PostSubject: Re: The Die Hard Series   The Die Hard Series EmptyFri Sep 02, 2011 11:40 pm

Gravity's Silhouette wrote:
LOL! Maybe he was just being modest. Bruce Willis is the key to DIE HARD, and maybe McTiernan. But that's it. .

I'd add Michael Kamen. Marco Beltrami is no substitute.
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PostSubject: Re: The Die Hard Series   The Die Hard Series EmptyFri Sep 02, 2011 11:53 pm

Sharky wrote:
Gravity's Silhouette wrote:
LOL! Maybe he was just being modest. Bruce Willis is the key to DIE HARD, and maybe McTiernan. But that's it. .

I'd add Michael Kamen. Marco Beltrami is no substitute.

Really? I don't recall Kamen being so closely linked or associated with Die Hard. When I think of DIE HARD I think of McClane, Sgt. Powell, Hans Gruber, the action scenes, the humor...but never Kamen.
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PostSubject: Re: The Die Hard Series   The Die Hard Series EmptyFri Sep 02, 2011 11:59 pm

Gravity's Silhouette wrote:
Sharky wrote:
Gravity's Silhouette wrote:
LOL! Maybe he was just being modest. Bruce Willis is the key to DIE HARD, and maybe McTiernan. But that's it. .

I'd add Michael Kamen. Marco Beltrami is no substitute.

Really? I don't recall Kamen being so closely linked or associated with Die Hard. When I think of DIE HARD I think of McClane, Sgt. Powell, Hans Gruber, the action scenes, the humor...but never Kamen.

Never underestimate the power of a good score, even it doesn't register consciously. He gave the first three flicks a character and atmosphere that Beltrami's completely lacked - partly due to the great idea of adapting familiar pieces (Ode to Joy, Finlandia and When Johnny Comes Marching Home). The DIE HARD 4 score could easily have come from any 00s action blockbuster.
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PostSubject: Re: The Die Hard Series   The Die Hard Series EmptySat Sep 03, 2011 12:02 am

Yeah, Kamen's score brings a lot to DIE HARD.
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PostSubject: Re: The Die Hard Series   The Die Hard Series EmptySat Sep 03, 2011 1:09 am

The key to DIE HARD?

The formula to the first film was the key to DIE HARD. It was like a Western in a skyscrapper. Lawman comes to town, yippie ki-yay, motherfucker. He was running around barefoot. It was in a tight, well-defined place. Our hero had a full cache of catchy one-liners. He even had a black friend. It was clever, yet straightforward.

There is no reason to make more.

Except to make money.

And it had Alan Rickman, William Atherton, and Ellis.

And Argyle. Perhaps Argyle is the true key to DIE HARD.
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PostSubject: Re: The Die Hard Series   The Die Hard Series EmptySat Sep 03, 2011 2:32 am

I enjoy the sequels, but none have come close to the original. That's almost a one of a kind. Pretty much the same with Indy, except none are on the level of TEMPLE OF DOOM.

Ranking them:

Original - No Contest.
2 - It's the cheese that elevates it. And Bruce WIllis' very awkward facial expressions. And William Sadler's ass.
With a Vengeance - Feels apart from the last two since there's no closed location but still a pretty decent action/thriller.
Live Free - Pretty much the last one on steroids. Avoid the PG-13 version at all costs.
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PostSubject: Re: The Die Hard Series   The Die Hard Series EmptySat Sep 03, 2011 3:59 am

Sharky wrote:
Gravity's Silhouette wrote:
LOL! Maybe he was just being modest. Bruce Willis is the key to DIE HARD, and maybe McTiernan. But that's it. .

I'd add Michael Kamen. Marco Beltrami is no substitute.

I think Kamen was as integral here as he was for LETHAL WEAPON ... and it was to better effect, because these are better movies (I am not a LETHAL fan.)

EDIT ADDON: one thing that really DID bug me about DHWaV was that Johnny Comes Marching Home should be getting played for John McClane scenes, not for the baddies. This is the first time we've seen Johnny McClane on his home turf, so it makes sense to use it ... just not the way they did. Maybe McT was just lost in Kubrick homage? After suffering through his terrible commentary on THOMAS CROWN, a flick I love, I don't think I'll ever try listening to a McTiernan commentary again, so I don't know his thought on DH3 (maybe it was just 'big paycheck.')


Last edited by trevanian on Sun Sep 04, 2011 6:26 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: The Die Hard Series   The Die Hard Series EmptySat Sep 03, 2011 5:21 pm

Die Hard: Classic
Die Hard 2: Entertaining, but stupid. The entire plot comes crashing down when you realize that there are several major airports within a 2 hour flight from Dulles.
Die Hard With A Vengeance: Bad. Ass.
Live Free or Die Hard: I must confess, I haven't watched it all the way through.
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PostSubject: Re: The Die Hard Series   The Die Hard Series EmptySun Sep 04, 2011 2:08 am

Loomis wrote:
The first DIE HARD is not merely one of the greatest action films of all time (and without question one of the most influential films of the past 25 years) but one of the best films ever made.
One part of Die Hard that bugged me was the scene in the beginning of McClane balling his feet up on the rug. That set-up just never came to anything. I was certain he was going to ball his toes up when he had to cross the floor covered with broken glass. He didn't, did he? Maybe I missed it.
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PostSubject: Re: The Die Hard Series   The Die Hard Series EmptySun Sep 04, 2011 4:22 am

Louis Armstrong wrote:
Loomis wrote:
The first DIE HARD is not merely one of the greatest action films of all time (and without question one of the most influential films of the past 25 years) but one of the best films ever made.
One part of Die Hard that bugged me was the scene in the beginning of McClane balling his feet up on the rug. That set-up just never came to anything. I was certain he was going to ball his toes up when he had to cross the floor covered with broken glass. He didn't, did he? Maybe I missed it.

That was the pay off from the conversation he had with the guy on the airplane. "Make fists with your toes."
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PostSubject: Re: The Die Hard Series   The Die Hard Series EmptySun Sep 04, 2011 7:11 am

Tubes wrote:
Louis Armstrong wrote:
Loomis wrote:
The first DIE HARD is not merely one of the greatest action films of all time (and without question one of the most influential films of the past 25 years) but one of the best films ever made.
One part of Die Hard that bugged me was the scene in the beginning of McClane balling his feet up on the rug. That set-up just never came to anything. I was certain he was going to ball his toes up when he had to cross the floor covered with broken glass. He didn't, did he? Maybe I missed it.

That was the pay off from the conversation he had with the guy on the airplane. "Make fists with your toes."

It never had a pay off!? laugh It's the whole reason he's caught barefoot when the shit hits the fan.
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