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 The Avengers ::: 4 May 2012

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Fairbairn-Sykes
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PostSubject: Re: The Avengers ::: 4 May 2012    Fri May 11, 2012 4:07 pm

Sharky's a pure contrarian. I think he measures how good a movie is in how little money it made and how few people saw it. I think he waits to see if the general public enjoyed something before deciding how much he hates it.

I had a good time at The Avengers. But that's not enough for Sharky. A film cannot simply entertain. It must question, educate, or innovate. All films. It is a strict standard. Not Dogme 95 strict, but nobody's perfect.
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PostSubject: Re: The Avengers ::: 4 May 2012    Fri May 11, 2012 10:04 pm

I don't think Whedon is a really good director, either.

But I'd take him over hacks like Brett Ratner and J.J. Abrams any day.
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PostSubject: Re: The Avengers ::: 4 May 2012    Sat May 12, 2012 12:48 am

Whedon isn't one of the greatest directors of all-time but he knows how to please fans.
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PostSubject: Re: The Avengers ::: 4 May 2012    Sat May 12, 2012 12:53 am

Fans are too easy to please.
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PostSubject: Re: The Avengers ::: 4 May 2012    Sat May 12, 2012 1:24 am

Oh c'mon. Fans of the source material would have been pretty upset if he messed up The Avengers. He did just fine with it.
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PostSubject: Re: The Avengers ::: 4 May 2012    Sat May 12, 2012 3:45 am

THE AVENGERS set out to be nothing more than a fun blockbuster flick that gives audiences a good time at the movies. It largely succeeds at that and then some. It's a matinee. I don't understand why one must be cynical over it.
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PostSubject: Re: The Avengers ::: 4 May 2012    Sat May 12, 2012 6:59 am

Because it's lazily-made McBlockbuster POS that's huge success is a very bad omen for the next decade of Hollywood.
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PostSubject: Re: The Avengers ::: 4 May 2012    Sat May 12, 2012 7:02 am

I think you're being unfair. Like many of the criticisms people put against the original Star Wars trilogy because its success changed Hollywood.
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PostSubject: Re: The Avengers ::: 4 May 2012    Sat May 12, 2012 9:54 am

Makeshift Python wrote:
I dunno, I say Branagh, Johnston and Whedon came out strong. I'm not sure what Favreau's deal is though as he doesn't seem to have any kind of stamp on any film he makes, but RDJ's presence manages to keep it up in the air. Leterrier's more workman like, but it... works I guess.
I admire Marvel's intentions in getting directors appropriate for their recent films, more so than the actual results... Thor in particular didn't turn out well. The script lacked hammy Shakespearian stuff in the first place, so Branagh had nothing to get his hands around. And the way he shot the film was horrendous.
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PostSubject: Re: The Avengers ::: 4 May 2012    Sat May 12, 2012 2:02 pm

The dutch angles are questionable, but they didn't overwhelm the film for me like say BATTLEFIELD EARTH did.
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PostSubject: Re: The Avengers ::: 4 May 2012    Sun May 13, 2012 1:14 am

Makeshift Python wrote:
I think you're being unfair. Like many of the criticisms people put against the original Star Wars trilogy because its success changed Hollywood.
Exactly.

It's good fun. That's what gets people out to the theaters. They go to be entertained, and that's what The Avengers is: good entertainment. Just because it's not some high-brow, introspective work of art doesn't mean it's the catalyst for the downfall of Hollywood.

Most of the biggest box office hits of the last few decades have been pure popcorn fare. It's a bit absurd to expect anything else.
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PostSubject: Re: The Avengers ::: 4 May 2012    Sun May 13, 2012 10:11 am

Yeah ... for me 'McBlockbuster POS' applies to stuff like the Transformers flicks and Battleship. There seems to be more ... well, CRAFT (for want of a better word) in the likes of the Marvel movies.
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PostSubject: Re: The Avengers ::: 4 May 2012    Sun May 13, 2012 11:10 am

Sharky wrote:
Fans are too easy to please.

That's what I'm worried about. With the abysmal likes of the Transformers franchise, The Expendables, etc, I'm scared that people's admiration for The Avengers stems from their lowered standards. That said, the trailer for The Avengers looks better than the finished product of those other films combined (haven't yet seen TA).
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PostSubject: Re: The Avengers ::: 4 May 2012    Sun May 13, 2012 11:34 am

Blunt Instrument wrote:
Yeah ... for me 'McBlockbuster POS' applies to stuff like the Transformers flicks and Battleship. There seems to be more ... well, CRAFT (for want of a better word) in the likes of the Marvel movies.

POS is maybe too harsh, but I still keep the McBlockbuster comment. They're utterly soulless, ugly looking, cookie-cutter flicks, devoid of any real imagination. They could have been made by some computer algorithm that collects all the wishes of online fanboys, then turns that into a trilogy of blockbusters, cynically planned over a span of 5 years or more. I wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

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PostSubject: Re: The Avengers ::: 4 May 2012    Sun May 13, 2012 11:37 am

Sharky wrote:
Because it's lazily-made McBlockbuster POS that's huge success is a very bad omen for the next decade of Hollywood.

No it's not. Movies like Avengers don't win Oscars for best movie of the year...although they might pick up Oscars for other categories like best special-effects. Hollywood produces too many movies a year...I don't see why fun-filled popcorn flicks like Avengers need to have scorn heaped upon them. Odds are, if Avengers isn't up your alley, you have loads of other choices at the movies. :bball:

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PostSubject: Re: The Avengers ::: 4 May 2012    Sun May 13, 2012 2:19 pm

This whole discussion is starting to sound a lot like this one that took place 30 years ago concerning STAR WARS.



Siskel and Ebert's comments really sum it up for me. THE AVENGERS only aspires to give audiences a good time and it obviously succeeded at that but as Sykes said that doesn't seem to be good enough for Ol' Sharky or the John Simons out there.
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PostSubject: Re: The Avengers ::: 4 May 2012    Sun May 13, 2012 2:26 pm

Look: the STAR WARS trilogy had great scores, ground breaking fx, top notch art design, set design, some decent humour, and a young Carrie Fisher in a gold bikini. To compare that to the direness that is THE AVENGERS is absurd. Neither are great art, but at least one's got some imagination to it.
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PostSubject: Re: The Avengers ::: 4 May 2012    Sun May 13, 2012 2:30 pm

You're missing the point.
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PostSubject: Re: The Avengers ::: 4 May 2012    Sun May 13, 2012 2:33 pm

I love fun blockbusters when they're done right, but AVENGERS is just cynical product.
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PostSubject: Re: The Avengers ::: 4 May 2012    Sun May 13, 2012 2:35 pm

Sharky wrote:
Look: the STAR WARS trilogy had great scores, ground breaking fx, top notch art design, set design, some decent humour, and a young Carrie Fisher in a gold bikini. To compare that to the direness that is THE AVENGERS is absurd. Neither are great art, but at least one's got some imagination to it.

Fine, so next couple of years, you go see the sequel to...The Three Stooges, and leave the Avengers to us. :bounce:

[/end of discussion].



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PostSubject: Re: The Avengers ::: 4 May 2012    Sun May 13, 2012 2:41 pm

THE AVENGERS is fine in my book. It's not groundbreaking like STAR WARS was but it has enough going on to make a fun viewing experience in theaters. I've seen it twice so far and everybody responded greatly on both occasions. I haven't met anyone who had such a harsh view of it and I can't imagine meeting anyone that had that beyond you and Armond White.
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PostSubject: Re: The Avengers ::: 4 May 2012    Sun May 13, 2012 2:59 pm

Yep. The Avengers is a damn good time. Its box office numbers speak for itself.
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PostSubject: Re: The Avengers ::: 4 May 2012    Sun May 13, 2012 3:36 pm

Jack Wade wrote:
Yep. The Avengers is a damn good time. Its box office numbers speak for itself.

Yeah, but he'll say the masses are asses...and then stare at mine....
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PostSubject: Re: The Avengers ::: 4 May 2012    Sun May 13, 2012 9:53 pm

Mrs Aural Sects wrote:
Jack Wade wrote:
Yep. The Avengers is a damn good time. Its box office numbers speak for itself.

Yeah, but he'll say the masses are asses...and then stare at mine....

And forgets that while SW was visualy impressive at that time it did lend Quite a lot from other the Book franchises (Dune comes to mind) / movies and was not made as art, it was GL attempt at remaking family fun scifi. As he and Spielberg did with the serials in the Indiana Jones series.

Avengers is another good attempt at family entertainment in a time that averything in cinema wants to be dark and negative. I went with my friend and our two kids and they had a whale of a time as did all kids in the cinema. After the movie I heard a lot of kids begging their parents to go and see it again and the kids were full of "Puny God" & "Hulk smashes". For me and a lot of parents it was a decent outing after all those Disney films or child friendly attempts. With Aardmans' Priates & Avengers the summer got of to a good start. ANd I prefer this WHedon movie easily to any Transformer movie, the dialogue written by Whedon offers a lot to grown ups and kids alike, and that is something only Pixar have been good at in recent years.

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PostSubject: Re: The Avengers ::: 4 May 2012    Mon May 14, 2012 1:35 am

For all his flaws, Michael Bay's got a better understanding of kinetic motion, visual wit (in the tradition of Disney cartoons), and how to fill a frame than Joss Whedon. Whedon's just a writer who thinks he can direct. He has no natural flair for it.
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