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 Star Trek Into Darkness ::: May 17, 2013

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Makeshift Python
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PostSubject: Star Trek Into Darkness ::: May 17, 2013   Mon Mar 14, 2011 7:25 pm





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James. C
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PostSubject: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness ::: May 17, 2013   Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:01 pm

Actually enjoyed nuTrek, having never seen the other films or shows. Now I've bought all of the films and have seen three of them, will be watching the rest soon.
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PostSubject: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness ::: May 17, 2013   Thu Mar 17, 2011 5:17 am

James. C wrote:
Actually enjoyed nuTrek, having never seen the other films or shows. Now I've bought all of the films and have seen three of them, will be watching the rest soon.

If you ever have the time or the inclination, TV Trek is better than Movie Trek. They're quite different in fact. TV Trek has a very wide range of quality, but the good stuff is very good if I, and Python, and Sykes, and Tubes do say so ourselves.

Important advice: In the word "Voyager" is on the tin, do not watch it.
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PostSubject: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness ::: May 17, 2013   Thu Mar 17, 2011 5:28 am

CineTrek is largely based on the connections we made with the characters in the TV shows anyways. That's why all of the good Trek movies involve a plotline/characters/everything from a TV show episode.

As far as the TV shows go, TOS has the best individual episodes. They are largely confined into season 1 and 2, but some gems exist in season 3 as well. TNG has the most content, which therefore leads to lots of good and bad episodes. DS9 is largely based on overarching storylines, so it's possible to get lost if you just grab an episode in the middle. If you start at the beginning, however, it's great.

Either ignore or be picky when you watch Voyager and Enterprise.
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PostSubject: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness ::: May 17, 2013   Thu Mar 17, 2011 5:33 am

DS9 is the best in terms of objective quality of writing and all of that. I still like TOS best, though. It has a swagger to it that none of the others do.
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PostSubject: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness ::: May 17, 2013   Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:52 pm

The White Tuxedo wrote:
James. C wrote:
Actually enjoyed nuTrek, having never seen the other films or shows. Now I've bought all of the films and have seen three of them, will be watching the rest soon.

If you ever have the time or the inclination, TV Trek is better than Movie Trek. They're quite different in fact. TV Trek has a very wide range of quality, but the good stuff is very good if I, and Python, and Sykes, and Tubes do say so ourselves.

Important advice: In the word "Voyager" is on the tin, do not watch it.

I second that, all of that. The show was quite entertaining. Very philosophical. The movies are ok, but never held my interest (and I've not seen them all)

And Voyager is lame....Also not a fan of DS9. TNG was good, though, and I even thought Enterprise was decent.
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PostSubject: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness ::: May 17, 2013   Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:55 pm

As long as you've seen WRATH OF KHAN you're in good shape. :)

DS9 is very good, though. But it demands starting from the beginning and really watching every episode. So many shows now are like that, but this just wasn't so in the 90's. Sadly, DS9 didn't get good ratings. Happily, we got 7 seasons.
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PostSubject: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness ::: May 17, 2013   Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:16 pm

DS9 is definitely a rewarding show when you journey through it. A spiritual successor to TOS in a lot of ways. I guess you could say it's contemporary 90s Trek, but without the PC nonsense (that's Voyager).
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PostSubject: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness ::: May 17, 2013   Fri Mar 18, 2011 10:09 am

Bah.

NuTrek is the most enjoyable Trek movie imho and I'll eagerly go check out the sequel. I've never been a huge fan of the TV shows though...
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PostSubject: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness ::: May 17, 2013   Fri Mar 18, 2011 10:11 am

I always say, imagine somebody said they loved DIE ANOTHER DAY and then said every Bond movie before it sucked. laugh

But yeah, the movies are pretty naff overall.
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PostSubject: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness ::: May 17, 2013   Fri Mar 18, 2011 10:16 am

The White Tuxedo wrote:
I always say, imagine somebody said they loved DIE ANOTHER DAY and then said every Bond movie before it sucked. laugh

But yeah, the movies are pretty naff overall.

I dunno-- I've seen all the TOS and TNG movies and the only ones I really enjoyed were Wrath of Kahn, Search for Spock and Undiscovered Country. The enjoyment factor with the new one for me was higher than with those prior 3, mostly due to the fact that I connected with the cast on the whole more however, again, I never watched the TV shows really. The less said about the TNG movies the better.
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PostSubject: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness ::: May 17, 2013   Fri Mar 18, 2011 10:16 am

New Trek is Star Trek had it been conceived by George Lucas.

In a way, JJ Abrams is the perfect man to turn the franchise into something very low on idea and substance yet very high on action and explosions.
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PostSubject: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness ::: May 17, 2013   Fri Mar 18, 2011 10:21 am

Salomé wrote:
New Trek is Star Trek had it been conceived by George Lucas.

I don't know what you mean by this specifically but the new Trek movie was vastly superior to any of the Star Wars prequels.

Quote :
very low on idea and substance yet very high on action and explosions.

Disagreed. The new Trek appealed to me largely because this wasn't the case. The movie was primarily about its characters, who were very well drawn and cast, and drew me into the movie. The action and explosions were secondary-- this was far from Transformers or something.
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PostSubject: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness ::: May 17, 2013   Fri Mar 18, 2011 10:25 am

Sounds like we need The Undiscovered Country here. :) etc

Still sooner back TWOK, TSFS, TVH, TUC and yes, even The Final Frontier over XI. I'll see the sequel without high hope and indeed, with alcohol.
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PostSubject: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness ::: May 17, 2013   Fri Mar 18, 2011 10:25 am

Drax wrote:
The White Tuxedo wrote:
I always say, imagine somebody said they loved DIE ANOTHER DAY and then said every Bond movie before it sucked. laugh

But yeah, the movies are pretty naff overall.

I dunno-- I've seen all the TOS and TNG movies and the only ones I really enjoyed were Wrath of Kahn, Search for Spock and Undiscovered Country. The enjoyment factor with the new one for me was higher than with those prior 3, mostly due to the fact that I connected with the cast on the whole more however, again, I never watched the TV shows really. The less said about the TNG movies the better.

I'm pretty honest about the films. I like the three that you mentioned. TWOK is a fun Hornblower In Space adventure. It's really heavy on the Campy Space Navy aspect of what I think Trek is. TSFS is 80's cheese, and I think feels a lot like the old show. TUC feels like a TV movie to me, but a good TV movie. However, the whole cloak and dagger assasination stuff falls pretty flat in my eyes. I know Sykes counts the film as his favorite Trek movie, but I just think the whole assassination business is underwhelming and I think the movie grinds to a halt when Kirk and McCoy get arrested.

nuTrek? If you like colorful explosions, it's good entertainment. That's not an insult toward you, GL. Just a general statement. nuTrek may have been expensive, but it's also cheap. It takes all the Trek iconography, strips it of any meaning, and shoves it into a two-hour explosion fest with a totally brainless hackjob of a script. It's Star Trek for morons. And it's still gutting to me as longtime fan who knows how good Trek can be. Yeah, I know we talked about this movie soooooo much on KTBEU. But it's been a while, and all that talk has been sucked into a black hole anyway.
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PostSubject: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness ::: May 17, 2013   Fri Mar 18, 2011 10:41 am

I forgot to throw in that I also find the NextGen films not worth mentioning. To me, they're about as bad as nuTrek. Though at least they fit into the Trek timeline. That's really about all the good that I can say about them. And it may not be good, considering how crap the movies themselves were. The Enterprise-E, while too sporty, I liked. And the new uniforms were great. I don't like the TNG uniforms. They're fecking boring.

Drax wrote:
Salomé wrote:
New Trek is Star Trek had it been conceived by George Lucas.

I don't know what you mean by this specifically but the new Trek movie was vastly superior to any of the Star Wars prequels.

Quote :
very low on idea and substance yet very high on action and explosions.

Disagreed. The new Trek appealed to me largely because this wasn't the case. The movie was primarily about its characters, who were very well drawn and cast, and drew me into the movie. The action and explosions were secondary-- this was far from Transformers or something.

I do agree that it's much better than the Star Wars Prequels, but I don't agree about the characters being well drawn or cast. I think the cast mostly had charm. Chris Pine surprised me. I thought he was a pretty good young Kirk. Zachary Quinto? To be honest, I don't think the guy has the sand to fill Nimoy's shoes, and I really hate how they took Spock, who used to be monument to logic, intellect, and dignity, and made him a loathesome drama queen. And it's not just when the Death Star blows up his home planet of Alderaan. He's a drama queen from the start. And Simon Pegg as Scotty was worse. Grossly inappropriate casting; they turned him into Jar Jar Binks.

I thought Zoe Saldana as Uhura was really terrific. Plus, she makes me extremely horny. But she's actually a really good Uhura. Her giving Spock a blowjob after Alderaan was blow'd up as a mistake. That whole relationship thing is just... a bad idea. It's like getting Q and Moneypenny together. No.

Anyway, the film has no content. It rides on charm, not on well-drawn character or consistently paced development of those characters. Case in point is Kirk. He doesn't really do anything to deserve being made Captain of a starship. I think it's a generational divide. The old Trek was written by men and women from the WWII generation. Even recent Trek was wirrten by adults. nuTrek was written by a pair of legal adults, but it was written expressly for the LOLZ/Twitter/MI6 Community generation.
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PostSubject: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness ::: May 17, 2013   Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:11 am

The White Tuxedo wrote:
TSFS is 80's cheese

The flames of pon farr!

lol

Quote :
TUC feels like a TV movie to me, but a good TV movie. However, the whole cloak and dagger assasination stuff falls pretty flat in my eyes. I know Sykes counts the film as his favorite Trek movie, but I just think the whole assassination business is underwhelming and I think the movie grinds to a halt when Kirk and McCoy get arrested.

I agree with all of that but the original crew's send off radiates back and elevates the film on subsequent viewings for me. It was handled well and made you feel glad that they went out deliberately and on a high note, (unlike the crap fest that was the previous film). Unfortunately all of this was dampened a bit by the fact that some of the original crew came back for the next and much stupider Generations. Red Letter Media's beautiful review of that film is a more satisfying experience than the film itself.

Quote :
nuTrek? If you like colorful explosions, it's good entertainment.

Many of the explosions got on my nerves as the digital effects rendered many of the images too bright or somehow off. That's not what made the movie for me though-- the characters and their respective arcs and dynamics were what drew me in. In my opinion the film was exceptionally cast and the characters very well written. I know the writing sucked in terms of some science and plot elements, however I stand by the claim that this was not the case with the characters. In particular I really liked the dynamic between Kirk and Spock and some of the situations they were put in and the choices they were forced to make. The acting throughout was wonderful. Pine is a kick ass Kirk-- he's got a strong authority and a solid masculine aura of confidence, smoothness and swash-buckling. The casting of Pegg as Scotty was, imho, a revelation. Lastly and most importantly Uhura was super hot.

Quote :
Zachary Quinto? To be honest, I don't think the guy has the sand to fill Nimoy's shoes, and I really hate how they took Spock, who used to be monument to logic, intellect, and dignity, and made him a loathesome drama queen. And it's not just when the Death Star blows up his home planet of Alderaan. He's a drama queen from the start.

Yeah I agree for the most part-- it was mostly the dynamic between Kirk and Spock that I liked. I remember thinking it stupid that they turned Spock into an angsty teenager

Quote :
And Simon Pegg as Scotty was worse. Grossly inappropriate casting; they turned him into Jar Jar Binks.

TOTALLY disagreed. I love Pegg and didn't find the character stupid at all, never mind the impossible stupidity of the Binks character.

Quote :
Her giving Spock a blowjob after Alderaan was blow'd up as a mistake. That whole relationship thing is just... a bad idea. It's like getting Q and Moneypenny together. No.

Agreed.

Quote :
Anyway, the film has no content. It rides on charm, not on well-drawn character or consistently paced development of those characters. Case in point is Kirk. He doesn't really do anything to deserve being made Captain of a starship. I think it's a generational divide. The old Trek was written by men and women from the WWII generation. Even recent Trek was wirrten by adults. nuTrek was written by a pair of legal adults, but it was written expressly for the LOLZ/Twitter/MI6 Community generation.

I disagree. I dunno...I have a pretty low tolerance for stupidity. I haven't been able to sit through a Michael Bay movie in over 12 years. I didn't want to see NuTrek when it first came out, but I wound up doing so-- and it surprised me. I don't know what else to say other than it just clicked for me. Maybe if I watch it again soon my memory will be sufficiently refreshed that I can provide a fresher perspective.


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PostSubject: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness ::: May 17, 2013   Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:26 am

I'm gathering still nothing is known about Star Trek XII. No title, script, Orion slave girls (plural), Chris Pike etc or even some insane rumour about Shatner as 'Kirk Prime'.
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PostSubject: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness ::: May 17, 2013   Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:24 pm

They don't even have a director.

Abrams is running out of time. I probably mentioned this on Ye Olde Mi6 (I'll check... oh wait!) but I kinda hope he gets Edgar Wright to do it, for whatever reason. I only think Wright is feasible since he was in consideration for Mission: Impossible and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, and because Ant-Man doesn't seem to be moving at all. And I think Wright would be able to perhaps deliver a Star Trek film that pleases fans without resorting to fanservice.

My thoughts on NuTrek are well known enough. I won't bore people, but what I appreciate is that it moves superbly. Most films don't, so when something crops up that does, it's something of a salve. That and the fact that it was an exuberant space opera, something that we were supposed to be getting from George Lucas, but weren't.
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PostSubject: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness ::: May 17, 2013   Sat Mar 19, 2011 5:52 am



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PostSubject: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness ::: May 17, 2013   Sat Mar 19, 2011 6:04 am

I like this one the best.



Yeah, Tux is The Sisko here.
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PostSubject: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness ::: May 17, 2013   Sat Mar 19, 2011 6:09 am

Pretty nifty video. First rate.
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PostSubject: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness ::: May 17, 2013   Sat Mar 19, 2011 6:18 am

Makeshift Python wrote:
I like this one the best.



Yeah, Tux is The Sisko here.

At 30 seconds: That was literally the face I had while watching nuTrek last night.

Except my face was white.
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PostSubject: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness ::: May 17, 2013   Sun Mar 20, 2011 6:30 pm

I enjoyed nuTrek quite a bit. Yeah, I know the script is pretty terrible and hollow and the film in general is just a lot of lights...but, I appreciate the fact that it's extremely stylish and, as FourDot said, is very well paced. The film just has a nice feel to it. Abrams did a great job of putting it together, which I think is admirable considering that he had to work with such a poor script.

So yeah, I mostly enjoyed nuTrek because of what Abrams brought to the table. I really hope he directs nuTrek 2, although at the moment it doesn't look like he is.
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PostSubject: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness ::: May 17, 2013   Fri Apr 01, 2011 3:27 pm

I sincerely hope Abrams will NOT direct the next one. I wish Orci & Kurtzman weren't writing it, but sadly they are. My biggest problem with the film is really the script. It's an incoherent mess. It's a series of random events hardly strung together, and even though the seeds of themes are planeted (or at least mentioned) none of them are followed through on. I still don't know why Kirk is made a captain in the end, let alone captain of the flagship of the fleet. He does nothing to prove himself fit for the job, and it's just for the gratification of today's audiences that he's made a captain. It's totally cheap, and it (along with other things) makes Starfleet look less like a dedicated space exploration service and more like an extreme sports club.

The reason I actually ventured into this thread was to seriously pose the question of what people would want to see in nuTrek 2. It's coming. I don't expect any thing great, I just hope for something less bad. You really can't do much worse than nuTrek in my view, so the sky's the limit. Or whatever the talent level of Orci & Kurtzman, so let's say about knee high.

Now for today's audiences I am expecting another brainless "thrill" ride. But with a coherent script, maybe it can at least be slightly more agreeable. We don't have the whole origin thing to deal with - or to fuck up, because they fucked it up in nuTrek and I don't give a shit what anyone says or if anyone thought it was a fun popcorn movie; it was shitty storytelling and that's a fucking fact. So we have the origin story out of the way. Gee, now Kirk and co. are exploring, right? I have entertained the thought that ten minutes after nuTrek ends, Kirk says, "So I don't get to blow anymore shit up? I gotta, like, explore n stuf? Fuck this, I'm going back to the bar to fuck alien chicks."

I'm rambling, but I would seriously probably do a Khan movie. I know, that's what a lot of people would not want to see. But it gives us a GOOD villain (and a villain at all, because I doubt today's audiences expecting this to be another Star Wars movie would accept anything like V'Ger), a good story, and the opportunity to go into genetic engineering and all of that stuff. Basically SPACE SEED: THE MOVIE.

The working title I have in my mind is STAR TREK: THE HAND OF KHAN. It'd be sort of an amalgam of "Space Seed' and THE WRATH OF KHAN. They find the Botany Bay, and Khan, and he escapes with his army of supermen. I know it's a ripoff, but it's gonna be better than any shit O&K come up with on their own.
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