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 Bring back the pinhole camera

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Largo's Shark
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PostSubject: Bring back the pinhole camera   Thu Nov 17, 2011 1:51 pm

It's been exactly 40 years since we last had a gun barrel which used a pinhole camera to capture the moment in real time, with only the blood added afterwards. Ever since LIVE AND LET DIE, it's been done artificially. First hand drawn, then digitally when Kleinman took over.

Personally I prefer the way real light bounces through the aperture. It gives it a strange beauty, which I think worked best in DAF - where the light source rotates across the octagonal rifling...

What do you think?
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j7wild
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PostSubject: Re: Bring back the pinhole camera   Thu Nov 17, 2011 1:59 pm

yeah... the one with Brosnan and the bullet flying toward the viewer.. that was tacky
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PostSubject: Re: Bring back the pinhole camera   Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:05 pm

I thought it was always an optical effect. Where Binder would take a shot inside a gunbarrel then superimpose the image onto the footage with the hole cut out. As far as I know he used that exact same gunbarrel image for all Bonds up to Dalton. Kleinman would then take that same image and paste it on a digital effect for Brosnan. Then Craig's two gunbarrels were completely CGI looking nothing like the Binder gunbarrel.

I would like the classic image back. Or at least have someone take a brand new shot with a pinhole.
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Largo's Shark
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PostSubject: Re: Bring back the pinhole camera   Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:11 pm

The 62-71 gun barrel sequences were shot with the actor firing the gun. The Moore and Dalton films used a static hand drawn image.
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PostSubject: Re: Bring back the pinhole camera   Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:40 pm

It looked the best in the earlier films, whereas QoS's gun barrel had absolutely no visual flair, and looked like it had been put together in Photoshop about five minutes prior to handing it over to the editor. CR's gun barrel was really nothing special, either. As that film ages, it's going to look worse.
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Prisoner Monkeys
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PostSubject: Re: Bring back the pinhole camera   Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:44 pm

Mr. Brown wrote:
CR's gun barrel was really nothing special, either.
CR's gunbarrel is obviously CGI - because it has twenty-eight rifling grooves within the barrel. No such gun exists.
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Makeshift Python
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PostSubject: Re: Bring back the pinhole camera   Thu Nov 17, 2011 3:09 pm

Why such an excessive amount?
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Blunt Instrument
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PostSubject: Re: Bring back the pinhole camera   Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:26 pm

A pinhole camera gunbarrel for SkyFall would certainly be a nice nod to the 50th anniversary.
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CJB
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PostSubject: Re: Bring back the pinhole camera   Fri Nov 18, 2011 9:59 am

I'd love to see it return, but I'd be pretty happy if they merely brought back Brosnan's barrel. The barrel and blood in CR/QOS looked ridiculously cartoonish.
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Largo's Shark
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PostSubject: Re: Bring back the pinhole camera   Fri Nov 18, 2011 10:30 am

A few facts I got from Shrublands when I asked the question over at Cb.n.

1) None of Binder's gun barrel sequences were shot live with the actor, or actually moved. The first 3 ones with Bob Simmons were a still image of a barrel taken by a pinhole camera with long exposure. Simmons was then shot conventionally with a circle masked around him. The two were superimposed with a rostrum camera. The blood was animated on here using stop motion.

The TB barrel was reshot with Connery for the Panavision format but used the same principle.

2. The shimmering effect was not reel light hitting the barrel but a stop motion animation effect done frame by frame with the rostrum camera or an optical printer. It was first done in OHMSS, then refined with DAF. Both of these were shot in b/w, but Binder added a blue filter for the later.

3. The Moore-Dalton ones weren't hand drawn, they just look like that because Binder used high contrast film stocks (possibly a lith film like Kodalith for TSWLM onwards). He also abandoned the light effect and any allusion of depth, giving it a flat look, almost like a lithograph or pen and ink drawing.

4. The rostrum/optical printer processing is a thing of the past with digital composting, but they could still do it today by filming the moving gun barrel for real, with a digital ffibre-optic camera - and combining that with Craig firing in the studio. .
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Lazenby.
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PostSubject: Re: Bring back the pinhole camera   Fri Nov 18, 2011 1:49 pm

Either way, it needs sorting IMO. As someone else said, it looks too cartoonish now, there's not even the slightest sense that one is looking down an actual gunbarrel. CR, as Shadow stated, had so many rifling grooves that it looked more like some big fucked-up circular pile of feathers than a gunbarrel, complete with horribly obvious CGI blood. And the QOS gunbarrel was perhaps the least exciting of the entire series; visually dull, and with a terrible hunched walk and boringly unexciting gunshot from Craig. Let's have some dynamite put back into this most iconic of moments, that is if they even bother to stick it at the start of the film this time. I've still got a horrible feeling they'll find yet another place to put the damn thing. Or maybe M will fire the gun this time, it wouldn't surprise me.


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Louis Armstrong
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PostSubject: Re: Bring back the pinhole camera   Fri Nov 18, 2011 4:30 pm

Lazenby. wrote:
Or maybe M will fire the gun this time, it wouldn't surprise me.
CELEBRATE 50 YEARS OF M WITH SKYFALL
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PostSubject: Re: Bring back the pinhole camera   Fri Nov 18, 2011 10:54 pm

Teaser trailer of Casino Royale having a good example how the style should look like, go to 0.45 and pauze http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LozaiZBdji0

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PostSubject: Re: Bring back the pinhole camera   Sat Nov 19, 2011 2:10 am



I really like how vibrant Meheux's cinematography is here, before the digital grading. Makes me wish the final film looked something like this.
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