Old Debate: Who REALLY Wrote The James Bond Theme? Barry or Norman?

Thread title says it all. My limited understanding is that Norman wrote an extremely rough idea of it, Barry signed the contract saying Norman would receive credit, then wrote and arranged it as we know it today, giving Norman technical ownership but Barry being the person largely behind it.

Thoughts/Knowledge? Shark?

It just sounds so UNLIKE the rest of Norman's score for DN, and SO much like classic Barry style.

Yeah exactly. Especially considering how Barry owned it in so many ways, came up with so many different arrangements of it, it seems like an odd thing for something that wasn't his. I mean, I'd think something like re-working a piece of music in so many different ways would be largely intuitive, and more difficult if it wasn't something you yourself created. But my musical skill extends to knowing the introductory cords to Smoke on the Water

I think I remember an interview, possibly on one of the dvds, where Monty Norman claims he'd written the music for the guitar riff and then quotes some lyrics that were supposed to go over it... it sounded like crap

According to WNYC's interview with Barry, he said that he was called in by a UA executive to work on the main titles theme. Norman's main titles were apparently not working. Eventually, Norman told Barry would get no credit for working on it, but Barry recorded the James Bond theme regardless. Then, after DN's release, the producers knew Barry was responsible for the main theme, and called him back to work on the 2nd film. And the rest is history. I'm sure Shark can get into the details a bit more, and perhaps word it better.

Barry's version was exciting and fresh. Norman's version is dull, and quite silly. I'd also say that Barry's theme, and his work on the early Bond films, really defined what music for the espionage genre would sound like from 1962 and onward.

This question had its day in court in 2001 when Monty Norman successfully sued The Sunday Times for suggesting John Barry wrote the James Bond Theme. The damages and legal costs make it unlikely that anyone will seriously dispute Norman's ownership again until after he dies.

The best evasive answer Barry gave on the subject was in the now defunct magazine The Face in the early 1980s. When asked whether he had in fact written the James Bond Theme, Barry replied along the lines of, 'Ask yourselves this: if Monty Norman wrote it, then why did EON ask me back for every film there after?'

ambler wrote:

When asked whether he had in fact written the James Bond Theme, Barry replied along the lines of, 'Ask yourselves this: if Monty Norman wrote it, then why did EON ask me back for every film there after?'

Exactly.

That guy was as sharp as a tack.

I think it's fairly undisputed that Norman adapted the guitar melody from Good Sign/Bad Sign, a song that he wrote for his A House For Mr. Biswas musical. In all of his defences of his ownership, he always draws down to that, i.e. with how he 'split the notes.' But he never discusses the origin of the opening chords, the 3 note chromatic vamp, or the Dizzy Gillespie-esque swing section, its 'escape', or the stacked transposed build-uo of the first 4 notes of the central motif in the finale and the concluding Em/M9th chord strummed by Vic Flick (this m/M7th and m/M9th chord has been a pivotal idea throughout Barry's Bond scores).

While John Barry only gets credit for the orchestration, it's more likely than not, that he, not Monty Norman composed these elements. Partly, by borrowing from his own material, and adapting other pieces in the jazz repertoire that he was so familiar with.

Several examples being:









Here's a very good article on the court case.

Quote :

John Barry was asked, "did Monty Norman write the 'James Bond Theme?' "

His reply was, "absolutely not."

Cross examination: Mr. Price, the prosecuting barrister, took Barry through a sequence in a deliberate attempt to cause confusion leading backwards from the recording session.

* 21/6 CTS recording
* 20/6 copyist
* 19/6 Vic Flick to flat for guitar sound.
* 18/6 working
* 17/6 working
* 16/6 Meeting with Rogers

Barry said that he thought this was accurate. Price pounced. Norman was in Paris until late on 16th. He could not possibly have met Rogers and Norman on the 16th. Barry had already established that the meeting was on 8th. But the prosecution were dealing with a man who had been ill for a week with pneumonia and was probably dosed up to the eyeballs with antibiotic and other medication. The prosecution knew all too well how to operate in these circumstances. This was an awkward moment but the defense barrister questioned Barry near the end of his testimony to prove with reference to his diary that the Rogers meeting was on 9th June. Barry was asked what time of day was his phone call with Rogers. Barry said that he couldn't remember. Price replied that he couldn't remember the time of day and yet can remember the sequence of events with Rogers clearly. Barry replied that he was at that time anxious to break into film scoring and that it was the thing he was most passionate about. He also said that people have selective memory. Some events stick in the mind more than others and Rogers calls and meeting were remembered because they were significant to him.

Dear god. I challenge anybody to make it through the whole thing.

So the guitar riff was definitely Norman's, at least on paper. That leaves the other 4/6ths of the song to Barry.

Contracts are a bitch.

Yes, my take is similar to Vesper's:

Norman clearly composed the guitar riff part - fair enough - I won't dispute this (even if it clearly wasn't originally written with a guitar in mind). But Barry pulled it together, did all the orchestration and made it what it was - filled in the other blanks. The opening chords alone are clearly not Norman's work - they have Barry's stamp all over them. If you look at it in terms of who did the most input on it and having studied the piece - I'd argue that Barry put *significantly* more work into the final track than Norman did - but contractually his hands were tied. There is a reason Barry went on to win Oscars and Norman faded into obsurity afterwards, sadly because of contractual reasons he never will never get the credit he deserved for this.

To be fair the Norman on the other side of the coin - the theme would be nothing without that guitar riff.

Perhaps a fair point to some degree. However, I suspect Norman would have never played this part as a guitar riff and thus it wouldn't have been anywhere near as memorable. I can picture him playing it on a Marimba with a few bongos though... :roll:

Mr. Brown wrote:

According to WNYC's interview with Barry, he said that he was called in by a UA executive to work on the main titles theme. Norman's main titles were apparently not working. Eventually, Norman told Barry would get no credit for working on it, but Barry recorded the James Bond theme regardless. Then, after DN's release, the producers knew Barry was responsible for the main theme, and called him back to work on the 2nd film.

As far as I know, Barry was promised to get the gig for the second film if he agreed to work on it without being credited.

Barry Norman wrote the Bond theme. And why not? :oops:

Both did. Barry added more to it than Norman, but the contributions of both were key in making the Bond theme as great as it is, regardless of how much talent each person had.

gkgyver, we are all winding up in this place, aren't we? :D

Is it any wonder the late, great John Barry endeavoured to work his own '007' theme into as many of the scores as he could?

Although the James Bond theme appears in 'em all, '007' only apears in the ones Barry scored. I suppose it was never adapted by other composers because it would have meant paying a royalty to Barry, and EON was already paying a royalty to Norman every time they used his copyrighted main theme. Too bad, although after doing 11 soundtracks, Mr. Barry probably didn't need the money, whereas royalties from the JB theme was probably Norman's sole source of income.

I generally agree with the sentiments here.

Also remember we have Peter Hunt on the Criterion Commentary for Dr No saying he did the music with John Barry for when Bond kills the tarantula in the hotel room. This suggests Barry also worked on elements of the Dr No score, as well as working on the Bond theme. There are also some music cues used in FRWL that were also used in Dr No.

This interview is worth a listen, specifically at 6.30 minutes in:

Well, to add a few points:
Norman's Bond theme is still in some of DOCTOR NO and can be heard in the apartmen, swamp and finale scenes and his original version is in the UK trailer for that film. Primitive, but it is there.
John Barry was not asked to to the second Saltzman/Broccoli film, CALL ME BWANA, it was Monty Norman.
John Barry was not asked, originally, to do their third film, FROM RUSSIA, WITH LOVE, it was Lionel Bart, and then Francis Lai. When they refused, they decided to give Barry a chance, but the title song was out of his hands. Bart did it.
All that said, I am a Barry fan and do know that he certainly improved the entire piece that Norman wrote. It is just that if you imrove someone's work, you should not take sole credit for it.
However, Barry should, at least, get an arrangement credit.

Flemingfan wrote:

Well, to add a few points:
Norman's Bond theme is still in some of DOCTOR NO and can be heard in the apartmen, swamp and finale scenes and his original version.

True, but it's important to note that it's only the "DUM-DI-DI-DI-DUM-DUM" guitar riff, and not the 3 note vamp, fanfare, climax, intro chords, or closing pyramid. Giving credence behind the idea that Norman only wrote that guitar part (taken from Good Sign, Bad Sign), and everything else is John Barry's invention.

Sharky wrote:

Flemingfan wrote:

Well, to add a few points:
Norman's Bond theme is still in some of DOCTOR NO and can be heard in the apartmen, swamp and finale scenes and his original version.

True, but it's important to note that it's only the "DUM-DI-DI-DI-DUM-DUM" guitar riff, and not the 3 note vamp, fanfare, climax, intro chords, or closing pyramid. Giving credence behind the idea that Norman only wrote that guitar part (taken from Good Sign, Bad Sign), and everything else is John Barry's invention.

I'd buy off on that. It gives the devil (norman) his due, and the rest of the heapings of deserved glory can go to Barry.