CIA torture report

Erica Ambler wrote:

The basis of your reasoning seems to be Hollywood blockbusters.

No, the basis of my reasoning is not Hollywood blockbusters. If I was letting Hollywood inform my decisions about the world, I'd be hating the American military and blaming all of the problems of third world s**t-holes on America's foreign policy.

To paraphrase M from Goldeneye: 'Unlike the liberal media, I prefer not to get all my bad news from MSNBC.'

There should be a judge-led inquiry into Britain's alleged involvement in US torture if investigations by MPs and police fail to restore public confidence, a Cabinet minister has said. Vince Cable said getting a judge to look at the claims was "the right way to proceed" if voters remained concerned after ongoing inquiries, adding the Government should not "rule out" the move. Yvette Cooper, the shadow Home Secretary, also said it was her "instinct" to have allegations of complicity in America's use of unacceptable interrogation techniques during the New Labour years investigated by a judge. The calls come as Sir Malcolm Rifkind, chair of the Commons' Intelligence and Security Committee, strongly hinted former prime minister Tony Blair and former foreign secretary Jack Straw will be ordered to give evidence on what they knew. The Tory grandee has requested America hand over redacted sections of a controversial Senate report into CIA's involvement in torture that make mention of British involvement. wrote:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/industry/defence/11292773/Judge-led-inquiry-into-Britains-links-to-US-torture-cannot-be-ruled-out-Vince-Cable-says.html

This is hilarious, psychos get their kicks in a tax-financed s/m dungeon program and the only ones who get tossed around by their ears for it, if any, are the foreign friends helping them out, great show. LOL!

As for putting torture in quotes and all that othe wordy apologising for the barbary style Americans, how about you take a little vacation in your own Gitmo 'sanatorium', for maybe ten years or so. After that you can put torture in quotes if you're still up for it.

Campbell4 wrote:

As for putting torture in quotes and all that othe wordy apologising for the barbary style Americans, how about you take a little vacation in your own Gitmo 'sanatorium', for maybe ten years or so. After that you can put torture in quotes if you're still up for it.

Yes, I'm quite sure these upstanding, young Muslim men were all just innocently picking up canned goods for the poor when those filthy, white, Western imperial forces came and kidnapped them and put them in Guantanamo.

You were right and I was wrong. I apologize. Glory glory, hallelujah! Mine eyes have seen the light! His truth is marching on....!!!

Gravity's Silhouette wrote:

They can cooperate with their captors and give them the information they want and the torture will stop.

That's the exact opposite of what happened, according to the recent report. Captors were up-front with legitimate information and the information was discarded out of hand as being likely illegitimate. The inmates were then subjected to torture anyway.

Harmsway wrote:

Gravity's Silhouette wrote:

They can cooperate with their captors and give them the information they want and the torture will stop.

That's the exact opposite of what happened, according to the recent report. Captors were up-front with legitimate information and the information was discarded out of hand as being likely illegitimate. The inmates were then subjected to torture anyway.

Okay. So, having said all that, what's going to happen? What next?

It feels like we've revisited something that has already been settled. Whether you agree with torture or not, it seemed like the issue was settled. Then suddenly this report comes out of nowhere last Tuesday and now we're debating it all over again. Why? What changed?

If, like me, you believe that torture is an inarguable evil, and if, like me, we have a responsibility to examine the actions that our government has carried out in our name, then the report is a harrowing reminder of the human capability for evil against which we must always be vigilant. It is a reminder that where there is power protected by secrecy, there will almost always be abuse. It is furthermore an opportunity for national repentance and an opportunity to formulate a bolder, more humane (and, yes, perhaps more costly) way forward.

The truth behind zero dark thirty?

Revealed: the true story of 'Maya', the CIA analyst who hunted down Osama bin Laden
Real-life model for character in Zero Dark Thirty accused of series of bungles and being an apologist for torture

Quote :

"She should be put on trial and put in jail for what she has done,” the officer said.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/11306060/Revealed-the-true-story-of-Maya-the-CIA-analyst-who-hunted-down-Osama-bin-Laden.html

I think while barbaric it is merely a symptom of the threat that was/is being dealt with. The cycle between state and lone-actor terrorism is endless and once it starts apportioning blame is pointless. Shut the stable door after the horse has bolted stuff.

The differential for me is motivation. Those towers came down in 9/11 to take innocent lives, to invoke terror and fear in the lives of millions of innocent people around the world going about their daily life. It was designed to take innocent life on a mass scale, it was designed to intimidate on a larger scale, all to make a political/religious point. The CIA tortured these individuals, rightly or wrongly, to protect lives and liberties. Whether they were successful is somewhat immaterial.

The scope of fear and personal injury inflicted by the torture program vs the scope of fear and death inflicted by the major terrorist attacks around the world? I think when you compare figures the high ground becomes obvious.

Erica Ambler wrote:

The truth behind zero dark thirty?

Revealed: the true story of 'Maya', the CIA analyst who hunted down Osama bin Laden
Real-life model for character in Zero Dark Thirty accused of series of bungles and being an apologist for torture

Quote :

"She should be put on trial and put in jail for what she has done,” the officer said.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/11306060/Revealed-the-true-story-of-Maya-the-CIA-analyst-who-hunted-down-Osama-bin-Laden.html

Wow, this b**ch really f**ked up good. Incredible she was never brought to book for it. Though perhps not so surprising, as CIAagent she's a pro in lying and deceiving. Can't expect her to fess up. Telling also she's now arrived at the top ranks. Doesn't bode well if you ask me.

Vesper wrote:

I think while barbaric it is merely a symptom of the threat that was/is being dealt with. The cycle between state and lone-actor terrorism is endless and once it starts apportioning blame is pointless. Shut the stable door after the horse has bolted stuff.

The differential for me is motivation. Those towers came down in 9/11 to take innocent lives, to invoke terror and fear in the lives of millions of innocent people around the world going about their daily life. It was designed to take innocent life on a mass scale, it was designed to intimidate on a larger scale, all to make a political/religious point. The CIA tortured these individuals, rightly or wrongly, to protect lives and liberties. Whether they were successful is somewhat immaterial.

The scope of fear and personal injury inflicted by the torture program vs the scope of fear and death inflicted by the major terrorist attacks around the world? I think when you compare figures the high ground becomes obvious.

Don't agree at all with this reasoning. Sorry, why actually did the US go to the trouble of fighting the nazis? By this reasoning they could have just as well saved themselves the trouble and waited for the outcome. What you see may be a road but sure as hell isn't the high one, it's the road to Buchenwald and gulags. If you ask me it should directly lead to a court. For every single of the torturers and their backers in the CIA, justice Department and White House, all the doctors and lawyers that helped making it possible psycho freaks (not you here!) claim this is even a debate, it's not. Whoever condones torture does so not just from beyond polite society, it from outside civilisation.  

The only difference I can make out is that supposedly civilised patriots were given a line-of-reasoning that made possible they acted like gestapo goons. Some of them didn't even need that excuse, they were happy enough to go through with it fro the go. One of their instigators had nothing better to do than defend this abomination on tv. Let him defend it in court I say. About the scope, now there is a drone war going on for several years, plenty collateral damage and widespread terror among civilians. I'm not sure they view this war so different from 9/11.

Hollywood was right to turn its back on the badly made revenge porn propaganda that was Zero Shit Thirty.

Quote :

The Unidentified Queen of Torture
BY JANE MAYER

A woman appears to have been a source of years’ worth of terrible judgment, with tragic consequences for the United States. Her story runs through the entire report. She dropped the ball when the C.I.A. was given information that might very well have prevented the 9/11 attacks; she gleefully participated in torture sessions afterward; she misinterpreted intelligence in such a way that it sent the C.I.A. on an absurd chase for Al Qaeda sleeper cells in Montana. And then she falsely told congressional overseers that the torture worked.

http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/unidentified-queen-torture?mbid=social_twitter

Quote :

Bin Laden Expert Accused of Shaping CIA Deception on 'Torture' Program
BY MATTHEW COLE

The female expert repeatedly told her superiors and others — including members of Congress — that the "torture" was working and producing useful intelligence when it was not. She wrote the "template on which future justifications for the CIA program and the CIA's enhanced interrogation techniques were based," it said.

The expert also participated in "enhanced interrogations" of self-professed 9-11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, witnessed the waterboarding of terror suspect Abu Zubaydah and ordered the detention of a suspected terrorist who turned out to be unconnected to al Qaeda, according to the report

.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/investigations/bin-laden-expert-accused-shaping-cia-deception-torture-program-n269551

I’m proud of the movie, and I stand behind it completely. - Kathryn Bigelow

http://entertainment.time.com/2013/01/24/cover-story-kathryn-bigelows-art-of-darkness/

I see Bigelow is tying her lifeboat to the sinking ship.