Bond on 4K/UHD

From this point on (with the exception of MR) Lowry stopped remastering the films at 4K for UE DVD and blu-ray, presumably because it was too expensive then to do all 20 films and that they only focused on the earlier ones that had more dirt and artifacts to clean up. Instead of film negatives they used video transfers as the basis, so the non-4K remasters never looked quite as impressive as earlier titles. For TMWTGG it's kind of interesting. The old SE DVD is more saturated, maybe even too dark as in the images of Scaramanga in the PTS and Bond and Goodnight at the end. The UE blu-ray is less heavily saturated but it has more image information on the sides, and has that magenta though less aggressive than earlier titles (again, Bernard Lee's pale complexion can't escape it!). With 4K, it looks like they stuck to the same level of saturation as the UE but has improved contrast as seen with Bond having a cigar and laying in bed with Goodnight. However, the 4K appears to have the same framing as the SE DVD, so it's slightly cropped on the two sides again. Finally because it's now from a 4K source the grain is much more apparent than it's ever been, giving it a more filmic feel than the video transfer for the UE could have.


The widescreen LaserDisc for TMWTGG is incredibly hard to find for sale online, so I wasn't able to obtain it for screencaps. Regretful, because I wanted to see how it looked compared to the SE DVD, as those old DVDs sometimes went overboard on color boosting and I wanted to see if that was the case for TMWTGG.



https://007homemedia.blogspot.com/2020/01/the-man-with-golden-gun-1974.html

You're right in that the 4K has a lovely patina of grain.

The SEs to me after years of constant research seem to have all been boosted a bit here and there. The letterbox Laserdisc is the same tone as the other transfers but never with the slightly washed out looking color of the UE which always seemed a bit pale.
Basically the LD looks like a non-boosted version of the SE with slightly different framing. Great PQ as it's from 1993. The audio is stellar and has a phenomenally clean mono track which is so punchy you'd swear it's stereo at times. This is in contrast to the final 1.33 Laserdisc with digital sound which was from 1989 or so. I think it uses the same print element as the letterbox release but is a bit noisier of course. However it's mono seems to be directly print sourced and has inherent noise in addition to a much narrower soundfield. I'm sure this is what a release print probably sounded like and for the letterbox reissue they went to a magnetic master of some kind because the difference is HUGE.

TMWTGG is one that has not suffered as much as others but I ope seeing the new transfer up clsoe can give it more of the filmic sheen it just hasn't had on the Lowry masters. It didn't help that Ted Moore had to be replaced early on which causes a shift in the visual style but I do think there are beautiful visuals in the film that could be bettered in a new transfer.

Lowry did 4K on DN through TMWTGG then skipped TSWLM and did MR for some reason. The others were MGM video masters.

If I can ever figure out a decent way to cap some shots on my old not very powerful desktop PC I'd be more than happy to share shots of the letterbox LD. I think when viewed on good gear (considering LD's limitations) its probably the best looking LD of the older films alongside the CAV editions.
The next tier is GE which is my overall benchmark LD.
Top tier is TND which is arguably the best PQ I've ever seen on the format. (Fifth Element US pioneer pressing is right up there neck and neck and Speed 2 is actually very good PQ wise)

I remember someone did a screencap comparison between UE DVD and blu-rays a few years ago to show the leap in quality by zooming in on an area of the capture to highlight the difference. For a film that Lowry gave a 4K treatment you could see the improvement from DVD to blu. Much more definition and grain in the picture. But when you did a comparison with non-4K remastered titles the improvement was only marginal. I think the samples I saw were for OP, TLD, and TND. It was pretty disheartening, because you know they could look SO much better if they had just gone the extra mile.

I'm currently doing screencaps for TSWLM. Thanks to screenmusings, I can use the Lowry remastered DVD caps for a full comparison! I also just got the LD delivered yesterday, so it'll be five different transfers. So far the 4K looks about the same as the blu-ray, but again without that magenta shift.

I assumed the magenta was Lowry's doing, but it would seem this is something persistent in all the Bond blu-rays.

That shot of Ken Adam's set with the submarines is wallpaper worthy.


https://007homemedia.blogspot.com/2020/01/the-spy-who-loved-me.html

Smashing! This pretty much confirms my suspicions that the BD was the lone later title to receive its 4K master in the run of BDs. I think outside of perhaps a tiny bit of teal coloring rearing its head in the new BD that the Spy BD was the best looking of the entire series in 1080p which made up for the years of an outdated master being redone over and over.
The UE was an awful attempt to fix up the SE master and the result gave everyone bleached looking faces and it was a mess-worst of all is the boat sunset scene. That disc was so bad it made the SE preferable.
The SE shows off how the THX/SE line of masters tweaked the overall look of many of the films with boosted color and changed contrast in addition to a literal crap ton of edge enhancement. This master was made for the super rare THX Laserdisc and was the first appearance of the 5.1 ac3 remix which has a very slight different feel to the older audio of the 1990 disc.
Some 5.1 mixes replace the title song with the soundtrack version and lack the original film mix version which can be heard clearly in the opening piano riff being different. The UE and BD goes back to the original film mix IIRC-but is still the 5.1 mix.

The 4K seems to brighten certain areas and adjust contrast/black levels here and there but looks like a general tweaking overall. It's so weird to see the inherent brightness and slight softness to the photography after all these years of seeing it only in video form. One must remember that it was shot by Claude Renoir and has a different look to any other entry but it's weird to get used to!

My overall preference/go-to disc for years has been the 1990 LD. It's not pretty and has aliasing but the color and appearance feel right. I love the different sounding matrixed audio and this was the premiere in homes for the stereo mix which apparently only played in large cities. Gone to time is the mono mix heard on older video releases and most 1977 35mm prints. I need to track down the original VHS version for the mono as I only have the laughably sped up first pan n scan LD.
The 1990 does have edge enhancement and haloing but it seems to come and go. Mostly it's a fine transfer for the era despite the glue marks when XXX meets Bond in the Mojaba Club and the audio defect during the "Ride to Atlantis" scene (does your copy have this? It's like a ripping sound for a few seconds.) Most laughable is the sudden horrible video processed looking scene where Bond goes to ask for an hour and the wetbike. That one particular scene looks AWFUL on the LD like they were trying out new DNR tools of the day or something. Then it goes back to normal. The same footage in the included trailer looks much better!

I'm trying to sync the mono versions of the early snapcases DVDs to the 4K. However I miss Goldfinger.

Could anyone PM me if they could help?

THX in advance.

Here we are at the end of the 70s. The LD like many of the 70s titles before it appears to be cropped. The SE DVD colors look practically washed out at times. This was the last title Lowry remastered at 4K for UE and blu-ray, so the difference between blu-ray and 4K like films DN-LALD can only be subtle tweaks like improved contrast and that magenta push taken off.




https://007homemedia.blogspot.com/2020/03/moonraker-1979.html

And FYEO, which has the wildest color changing as far as titles go. To cap it all off, here's the last of our mysterious drinking man. If you look into the Kennedy assassination footage, he's supposedly among the crowd.


https://007homemedia.blogspot.com/2020/04/for-your-eyes-only-1981.html

Wow, the difference in those last two of Locque's car on the cliff-edge ... 'let's make 'em squint!'

OMG the drinking man being also on the grassy knoll-I just fell over crying with laughter!!!!!!

MR is definitely a aliasing and noise ridden LD transfer but it has a nice balanced look to its color and a more 70's sounding stereo surround than the THX remastered disc which has the color differences and contrasty look along with the shifts in skin tones. It is cropped a tad on the sides which is common for older video masters. The THX LD is the same master as the SE and is insanely tough to find and very expensive. It took me years to get all the THX final LDs-particularly Spy and MR.

The lowry version has weird color shifts which got magnified on the BD and it looks like the 4K negates most of the bad skin tones and fixes some color but appears hampered by the source-if they used the Lowry stuff that is. Improvement overall but I think it could look better to be honest. I don't think they've ever pulled one of the 70mm blowup prints.

FYEO on the lettebrox LD for some reason uses a 2.21:1 ratio as if it were 70mm. Thus it's a tad stretched and cropped on the sides-yet looks great when played back on a CRT save for some typical MGM aliasing/noise but only in select spots unlike the old MR. The SE shows again how wildly they could go with color timing and brightness levels.
Lowry FUBARd the Loque cliff day for night timing which on the old versions goes quickly to morning as the original assault on the warehouse is supposed to be at daybreak anyway. Now it looks like the 4K version has gone EXTREMELY overboard and done it even darker!!!
I need to see a print someday to finally get hard evidence but as far as I know by that point when Roger walks up to the car in the long shot it should be daybreak and not tinted dark any longer.

Otherwise the 4K looks much fresher than how bad the 1080p of the Lowry version looked outdated and showed its upscale origins.


Out of curiosity what's your capture setup like? I'm wondering what player you're using as LD is extremely player dependent for picture output quality. So far these caps look remarkably good compared to what most look like.

hegottheboot wrote:

Lowry FUBARd the Loque cliff day for night timing which on the old versions goes quickly to morning as the original assault on the warehouse is supposed to be at daybreak anyway. Now it looks like the 4K version has gone EXTREMELY overboard and done it even darker!!!
I need to see a print someday to finally get hard evidence but as far as I know by that point when Roger walks up to the car in the long shot it should be daybreak and not tinted dark any longer.

I wonder if John Glen had any involvement with the Lowry remaster, because IIRC he was the only director from the Cubby era that participated for the UE DVDs. I get wanting to darken the scene so it doesn't look like they're suddenly in the middle of the day after only just seeing them begin the raid before sunrise. Seems like a deliberate decision than an error, because they made sure to keep the details on actor's faces clear enough without losing them things like black crushing.

However, that's still not being true to how it looked theatrically, so it's still revisionism.

Quote :

Out of curiosity what's your capture setup like? I'm wondering what player you're using as LD is extremely player dependent for picture output quality. So far these caps look remarkably good compared to what most look like.

The LD player I use is a Pioneer CLD-D501. I only use the composite output, as the blood on the Simmons gun barrel didn't look as good through S-Video when I did a comparison. I record LD playback through DVD recording on a Sony RDR-VXD655 at HQ for the best possible quality (one hour per disc). I then insert the DVD-R copy in my desktop PC and use the snapshot feature on VLC media player which creates PNG image files.

I've tried looking for other means of recording LD playback, but it's been very difficult looking for better image capturing. My most recent attempt at looking for an alternative was through a recommendation on this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZC5Zr3NC2PY I got the recommended hardware from the URLs provided on the description, but unfortunately found the captured footage to be inferior. The test footage I used was from TLD's pre-title, and the details on the rocks of Gibraltar were blown out due to brightness boosting.

For now I'm just sticking to making DVD-R copies, as that's how I've done most of my captures for Bond and I rather keep them consistent.

Glen got interviewed for some extras and talking about deleted bits for the 2006 UE DVDs much as Spottiswoode and Apted did but I haven't ever heard of any of them signing off on transfers or being consulted. I don't really think they were other than perhaps glancing at the finished DVD they were shown. If they had been shown I don't think would have liked the first discs since the first ones were PAL Region 2 and had many errors fixed for the later US R1 releases.

I can see what you mean about the primary details. The 4K even goes back to having shadow on Roger's face on the beach capture with Lisl that was removed by Lowry. But the Loque cliffside scene has caused timing differences on every single release so I can understand it being a bit wonky here. The most objectionable parts in the series are always the day for night sequences-specifically the boat approach in DN, OHMSS pretitles and FYEO car up the cliff chase. FRWL is usually ok in the Bond lurking about the Orient Express DFN scene whereas they muck up the dawn DFN timing in OP's final horse chase.

You incidentally hit on one of the best, effective and simple LD capping methods. That's what most people did for years and can still yield perfectly good results. Technology Connection makes a lot of really good informative videos but unfortunately his method there doesn't really play well with the inherent weirdness of the Laserdisc quirks. The best way is by using analog capture cards or devices with really good comb filtration or applying high end processing to the captures once capped. This requires very specific gear and a lot of it is older and doesn't exactly want to talk well with modern PC components. None of this is cheap and doing simple analog caps can require massive amounts of RAM and results in a huge file when done. This is why I usually am not able to do a whole lot with my LD collection outside of describing transfers etc. I'm hoping to build a good editing/capturing PC but the cost is quite high to do so.

LD is naturally composite so S-Video is making the player do the comb filtering instead and most any later unit has a better comb filter. Thus it's always better to go with straight composite in almost every situation. That's why you got noticeably inferior results using the s-video connection.
IIRC the D501 is a really good and solid player. My first player was the D702 which was in the same family but a step up in models. If you're really getting into LD heavily there are desirable models out there that are big steps up in Picture quality. I didn't believe it much myself but LD is insanely dependent on player performance and after seeing it first hand with my second and third player I couldn't believe it. But you have to research models with hardcore LD enthusiasts. When I started I had no idea of all of the things that players should be reviewed on let alone how different the image could be.

I currently use the Panasonic LX-900 with ac3 mod. It gets rid of all of the noise of my older Pioneer models with a phenomenally great picture for LD. It has no CLV smear and no ringing artifacts which my 702 did like crazy. It's a sleeper of an LD player and is hard to find but generally much less in cost than the models most people look for like the D704 etc. There's a number of sleeper units out there you can find if you want one. The industrial models can be really good and super cheap but usually lack digital audio and trick play features etc.

In 2019 ultimately as many LD fans say: any working player is a good player.

Yup, I did a lot of research on players years ago to figure out my ideal player. My very first was a CLD-S201 on the cheap, just to get familiar with the format before plunging into it further with a better player. In retrospect that one was pretty decent, from my memory at least. When looking for an upgrade my must haves were basically: dual-side, digital output, ac-3 output, and S-Video, which eventually lead me to the D704. However, it stopped weeks after I used it. Last I tried it plays CDs fine, but can't spin LDs fast enough anymore to read so it gives up just as it starts. Later I got a D501 as a quick replacement for a great bargain and have used it since. Either eventually I'll try to fix the D704 myself or sell it for repairs on e-bay, for now it just sits boxed up in a closet.

You're right about LD quirks when capturing. Another way I tried capturing was through analog to USB cord. Twice in fact. First equipment I bought with a program installation would make very small video files, so I returned that. The next was Dazzle video capture, which at first looked fine for CLV capturing but once I tried capturing a CAV the picture became a mess, so that was a no go. Interlaced capturing is quite a hassle beyond DVD-R!

Indeed it is! The guys I know who make nice captures are usually having to use pro gear and have really good connections with massive amounts of RAM to do so!

Well, bummer news: My LD player finally crapped out. It just makes a mechanical drumming sound after I hit the eject button. Not surprised. My Bond screencap project has been the most active that player has been ever since I bought it. So LD screencaps will have to be put on hold for awhile. Luckily, I managed to get some screenshots of TLD, so that will be on the horizon. OP will be missing two shots in the upcoming batch I've made.

I'll have to go to my folks to grab the S201, I'm curious to see how that holds up despite being an entry level. I'll make capture examples just to see the difference between that and the D501 and if they hold up I'll continue with that.



Meanwhile, here's OP caps.


Unlike for FYEO and AVTAK, it looks like Lowry did something to give it an artificial sharpening for the UE DVD and Blu-ray. For the MGM 4K remaster it looks much more like the other Alan Hume shot films with the use of soft filter so the picture looks more natural than it's ever been. Again skin tones seem far more natural than the BD. Once again the SE DVD seems to have been boosted in color.




https://007homemedia.blogspot.com/2020/07/octopussy-1983.html

Wow that indeed fixes a lot of Lowry muck. OP was one where like MR it really jumped out to my eyes and I could never watch the Lowry versions. The weird color tonalities and over-sharpening was even apparent on DVD.
OP should be gorgeous if a tad soft like ROTJ when seen untampered with.

The LDs also do look different when viewed in motion on a proper CRT screen. Mine is prograde and also removes the NTSC red push so they do come out as much more accurate the way they would have on the original mastering CRTs of the day when being manufactured. As always the SE shows off manipulation and I think that DVD was one that showed digital noise on frame edges in some shots like LTK.

Bummer about your player. However all is not lost. It could be a simple issue like needing to change the small rubber belt or greasing a wheel. You can ask or post about it on the lddb forum or perhaps better for a quicker response the Laserdisc Forever Facebook page. There are tons of helpful LD wizards who can help or even find spare parts etc. I'm not super technical when it comes to mechanical repairs but I see some of the guys talking about issues like that frequently. It's very likely that with the age of the player it just needs some TLC.

hegottheboot wrote:

Bummer about your player. However all is not lost. It could be a simple issue like needing to change the small rubber belt or greasing a wheel. You can ask or post about it on the lddb forum or perhaps better for a quicker response the Laserdisc Forever Facebook page. There are tons of helpful LD wizards who can help or even find spare parts etc. I'm not super technical when it comes to mechanical repairs but I see some of the guys talking about issues like that frequently. It's very likely that with the age of the player it just needs some TLC.

Looks like it's really just the "flipper" mechanism. It can do fine just reading Side A from the bottom, but once it tries to switch to Side B it starts jerking about. Thankfully it did no damage to the disc that was inside because it sounded like a warzone. Now I know the issue, I'll just have to find the time to fix it up. I'll do more recording for screencaps down the line, but I'll have to treat the player like an old fashioned non-flipper for the time being.

I have AVTAK being shipped at the moment. I should get it on Monday. I've already finished caps for the SE DVD, Lowry's 1080p master and the new 4K master which looks as much an upgrade as OP. In fact, it's probably the grainiest Bond film yet. I understand that by the mid-80s Kodak was producing this new film stock that was a much higher speed but it was so grainy that it was a short lived production because filmmakers were not too crazy about it. I think it's the same stock used for ALIENS and PREDATOR, which were super grainy.

That's interesting. I never had AVTAK pegged as one of those. I think it looks really good despite it being perhaps more drab on the surface than either FYEO or OP. I always had that pegged on it being shot in 1985 and processed in LA due to the MGM Metrocolor credit. The imdb credits it as processed by Technicolor London and indeed the same Kodak 5294 stock as ALIENS. So you seem to be right but at that time your choice of stocks was limited to either the current new Kodak or what was left of the older one.
FYEO is listed as Kodak 5247, OP as the newer 5293 and interestingly TLD is listed as a mix of the grainy 5294 and then going back to 5247.

I always felt FYEO looked like Eye of the Needle and OP like ROTJ. This makes total sense now because each was shot by Alan Hume on different stocks! Light bulb eureka moment!


I'm glad you player is still going. Sometimes the side flip can be as easily fixed as putting in a new belt.
Don't worry my first player had the same issue and would lock up so I had to jump before it hit the side end and eject the disc to avoid having to unplug my player and plug it back in to get it to reset and switch to side 2 or 3. It didn't help that I didn't have a remote!!

I just bring that up because AVTAK for the first time looks more filmic in a way that never translated with the Lowry 1080 blu-ray, so the grain was more than appreciated.

One Moore Time... A VIEW TO A KILL.




With all the formats, it now becomes clear that the SE DVD had some shortcomings, such as being riddled with edge enhancement. There's also a weird shift in color, as you can see the icebergs are pure white on all formats except SE DVD's having cooler color temperature that persists throughout the entire film. Lowry to their credit tried to restore the most of the original color timing with their remaster for UE DVD and blu-ray, but then of course made mistakes of their own like with the severe cropping in the PTS and stabilizing a shot that was supposed to shake up during a tremor at Stacey's house. Given they were working off of an old 1080p video master, the remaster was only going to go as far as it could picture wise.




https://007homemedia.blogspot.com/2020/07/a-view-to-kill-1985.html

Wow, you can definitely see marked improvements especially in fine color and skin tones. The nighttime sky in the beach shot at Zorin's oil pumping station is more natural-but especially the reds that overwhelmed the Lowry skintones are gone and at their proper levels.
Fun to see the cursed aliasing in the Zorin airship blinds are almost completely eliminated!

I agree this looks far more natural than it has in quite some time and probably close to what you'd see looking at an original print of course minus the damage from the years. It's very interesting to see how much the LD is well balanced but then markedly low in saturation in many scenes. This goes back to the sort of MGM look associated with their older video masters. I think this new 4K master will alleviate some of the drab feeling we all associate with the film.

I need to start saving for a top line OLED just for these. But then I'll likely need to start syncing the LD audio tracks to them.

If you compare the LD audio on AVTAK to the others it has a tremendous and warm natural low end and fills the room beautifully in ways that none of the other releases do. Just comparing the title song is a night and day difference. Original mixes forever!

Here's TLD. Again, 4K fixed skin tones so that's always nice.

However, something's been getting at me. I just started watching the CBS/FOX VHS just to compare it to the screencaps I took. I currently can't take screencaps of the tape itself as I currently do not have the DVD Recorder on me to extract footage and post here in the usual manner. I got to the scene with Bond having Kara in his night visions sniper scope... except it's not in night vision! It's lacking that over exposed green filter! It's just a plain shot of Kara with red dot in the center. Was this just an error on the VHS, or could the green casting have been added to the LD and implemented beyond? I assume it's a VHS error, but it's an interesting one to come across.









1990 MGM LD



2000 SE DVD



2012 FOX BD



2017 iTunes 4K








1990 MGM LD



2000 SE DVD



2012 FOX BD



2017 iTunes 4K






1990 MGM LD



2000 SE DVD



2012 FOX BD



2017 iTunes 4K






1990 MGM LD



2000 SE DVD



2012 FOX BD



2017 iTunes 4K






1990 MGM LD



2000 SE DVD



2012 FOX BD



2017 iTunes 4K






1990 MGM LD



2000 SE DVD



2012 FOX BD



2017 iTunes 4K






1990 MGM LD



2000 SE DVD



2012 FOX BD



2017 iTunes 4K






1990 MGM LD



2000 SE DVD



2012 FOX BD



2017 iTunes 4K






1990 MGM LD



2000 SE DVD



2012 FOX BD



2017 iTunes 4K






1990 MGM LD



2000 SE DVD



2012 FOX BD



2017 iTunes 4K






1990 MGM LD



2000 SE DVD



2012 FOX BD



2017 iTunes 4K






1990 MGM LD



2000 SE DVD



2012 FOX BD



2017 iTunes 4K






1990 MGM LD



2000 SE DVD



2012 FOX BD



2017 iTunes 4K





1990 MGM LD



2000 SE DVD



2012 FOX BD



2017 iTunes 4K





1990 MGM LD



2000 SE DVD



2012 FOX BD



2017 iTunes 4K






1990 MGM LD



2000 SE DVD



2012 FOX BD



2017 iTunes 4K

I'll have to check my old copies for the scope shot.
Ironically the original Pan n scan LD has color remarkably close to prints I've seen. The widescreen LD is excellent and a great pressing inherent MGM aliasing aside but does tend to shift the color a tad here and there. Nothing bad but noticeable at times. The SE does it's usual color wherever it wants and is the most off kilter. While the Lowry UE/BD was technically fine it just lacks in texture and feels like the outdated master it is in addition to having issues.
All of the 80's films suffer from losing atmosphere on their video editions and only in the original prints do you get that truly lived in feel they originally had. The 4K masters are really addressing a lot of that finally thank goodness.

I'm so happy the 4K is improved. Seeing anything TLD makes me just gasp as always and as usual exclaim: this is really the last 100% truly great one isn't it? I adore LTK-DAD of course but they never fire on all cylinders the whole time like this does.


On the sound front the LBX LD Dolby Stereo is outstanding for the time period and still the best sounding home release bar none. Then LTK outdoes it due to the advancement of Dolby SR.

Seeing the sniper scope on the VHS copy made me consider taking caps of it, but all the other samples I saw looked pretty much like the LD copy, so I didn't feel it was necessary. They're very close aside from the sniper scope.

Did the film print have Tangier and Afghanistan daylight scenes in a cooler color temperature like the VHS and LD, rather than the warmer look of the Lowry and MGM remasters?

Another cap. Someone asked me if the boom mic that Lowry cropped out in their remaster was in the MGM 4K master. Well well well, the mic (and the guard holding Bond) are back in the frame!


1992 MGM LD




2000 MGM SE DVD




2012 FOX BD




2017 iTunes 4K








Here's a screencap from the theatrical trailer for TLD which features the sniper scope vision as it was originally presented in theaters. This is exactly how it appears in the 1988 LaserDisc and VHS copies, before later home video transfers cranked up the green filter and exposure to appear more like how night vision actually appears. In fact the original green filter was so mild that you could make out the shade of white on the wall behind Kara, as well as the blue color of that van that Koskov briefly hides behind as Bond and Saunders first spot him.




North American Theatrical Trailer




1988 FOX/CBS VHS




1992 MGM LD




2000 MGM SE DVD




2012 FOX BD




2017 iTunes 4K