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 What's so great about this one?

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ironpony
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PostSubject: What's so great about this one?   What's so great about this one? EmptyThu Feb 06, 2020 8:28 am

A lot of Bond fans consider it to be one of the best Bond movies, or one of the better ones, and I want to get on board with them and see what they are seeing, but I find the movie to be kind of boring compared to other entries. The pacing just feels more slow and drawn out compared to other entries.

I also find the villains and henchman to be incredibly bland in this one, with the acception of the main hench woman. She's good and has a good presence, but they don't give her as much good stuff to do as they could.

The main Bond girl though is also really flat. She is totally hot and very goodlooking, probably one of the best looking in the series. But she is kind of light in character it seems.

In fact, Bond has even more chemistry with the opening Bond woman, at the clinic, compared to her.

I also feel that the villain's weapon was disposed conveniently by such a random deux ex machine character, which cheapened the climax for me.

But what do you think? Am I missing something, since it's a well liked entry?
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Mr. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang
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PostSubject: Re: What's so great about this one?   What's so great about this one? EmptyFri Feb 07, 2020 3:41 am

To quote a brief summary in the detailed Bond ranking thread:

I wrote:
A gorgeous gallery of Bond women, a deeper insight into SPECTRE as an organisation, a simple plot complicated by the trappings of international intrigue, a script as sharp as Bond’s teeth with Connery even sharper, sex dripping off Barry’s score and Moore’s cinematography - the latter especially drawing you into a holiday to the Bahamas. If this film doesn’t encapsulate ‘travelogue’ I don’t know what does.

The danger has consequences, which brings a somewhat grandiose adventure back down to earth. Bond himself gets a flesh wound, brother Derval’s death isn’t something Bond is happy about sharing to Domino, the threat of the stolen atomic bombs summons all 00s, a grander briefing room (expertly designed again by Ken Adam) and organically drawn MI6 scenes with all the regulars doing what they would do.

There’s certainly a reason why this is the peak of Bondmania. Much of that can be attributed to Young capitalising on the Goldfinger formula but with the same focus as his first two (even if FRWL is the tighter film overall)

To address some of your points:

- Where you might feel it's drawn out (and you may have a case for some of the underwater scenes in the first quarter), I personally see character moments, a great sense of joie de vivre, the travelogue component, sex, danger and intrigue.

- Largo is an excellently constructed villain, largely due to the presence of Adolfo Celi, but also the details in which Young choreographs around him. The glance he gives the ticket inspector and the following reaction Largo provokes from him establishes him as a man of great power. His calm response to the fried SPECTRE agent in the meeting room, and his cool assuredness as he delivers his plan to his colleagues is fantastic. I disagree about Fiona not having a lot to do. And I find Vargas amusing enough for a peripheral villain.

- Domino really comes to in the second half, when she learns of Largo's killing of her brother, the stuff on the Disco Volante and of course her exacting revenge on his guardian-- and saving Bond. But this is only possible because of how beautifully her character is set up, and more effectively than say Anya in TSWLM, where we know the moment will come when she learns of her brother's death and she enjoys reminiscing about Angelo in addition to the usual (if wittier) repartee she has with Bond.

- I assume you're referring to the cigarette-and-ice method of torture as the villain's 'weapon' but it's really not about that at all, like say Klebb's shoe-knife or Carver's sea-vac. It seeks to deepen the villainy of Largo, and his colleague's recognition of Largo going mad demonstrates his desperation too.
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ironpony
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PostSubject: Re: What's so great about this one?   What's so great about this one? EmptyFri Feb 07, 2020 4:07 am

Oh okay, I guess I just felt Largo was an extremely average villain with very bland henchman, aside from Volpe. It feels like that's why they put the eyepatch on him thinking we need to do something to make this guy appear a bit more villainous.

But I guess I found Domino's revenge to be rudimentary, like going through the motions revenge that one would expect in the situation.  I can watch it again and see if it comes across differently.

Oh I don't receall the cigarette and ice torture, what do you mean by that?  I was referring to when the deux ex machina character, through the villains arming device into the sea.  He decides to turn good, but we never see this character have any type of arc, and he has been so minor and in the background, that it comes off as a convenient deux ex machina it seems, doesn't it?
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Mr. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang
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PostSubject: Re: What's so great about this one?   What's so great about this one? EmptyFri Feb 07, 2020 10:32 am

Are you referring to the character who rescues Domino?
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Perilagu Khan
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PostSubject: Re: What's so great about this one?   What's so great about this one? EmptyFri Feb 07, 2020 4:17 pm

I think he's talking about Kutze.
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ironpony
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PostSubject: Re: What's so great about this one?   What's so great about this one? EmptyFri Feb 07, 2020 6:32 pm

Yes Kutze.  I don't recall them saying his name in the movie, but I feel he was a deux ex machina character, cause he hardly gets any screen time, and he 'turns good', for the shear convenience of the plot. He disposes of the bomb and rescues Domino, making him a big hero in the movie, but there was no build up in this character for that, I don't think.
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hegottheboot
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PostSubject: Re: What's so great about this one?   What's so great about this one? EmptySat Feb 08, 2020 11:32 pm

You have to understand this was the height of the spy craze and Bondmania had swept the world. Success had its negative effects which along with all the extra input from outside forces cause TB as a film to be less effective and feel more drawn out.

1. you have the issue of Kevin McClory as a producer, his input and all the prior script treatments/drafts which are drier and less swift as they started back in the 1950's as the proposed first film and went through years of redoing.
2. Maibaum had done a script for TB in 1961 as the first film proposed. it didn't have the hallmarks of the series we knew. The shooting script took from everything prior.
3. The process was arduous and the post production was rushed. Peter Hunt had to keep cutting solo and get UA to push back the release date.

But if you understand the way the series and pressures were going and get used to the longer, more sedate rhythms of the editing is is very easy to get swept up in the film's power again. Some of the island and underwater rhythms affect the pacing but on the flipside you get the return of the Young style and the danger once again has immediacy and an edge not present in GF.

I adore the villains and of course the ladies which are easily the best collection of any film.
Kutze is named by Largo in the Disco's sub room once the bombs are brought in.
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