The Spy Who Loved Me vs. Licence to Kill

I was trying to come up with my top 3 Bond films, with my first two being On Her Majesty's Secret Service and Casino Royale, which I keep flipping back and forth between, but when it comes to a 3rd one which is better between those two do you think, out of curiosity?

Licence To Kill.

By a thousand parsecs.

As a companion to CR and OHMSS, LTK fits better.

But I still prefer TSWLM. It goes better with TB, YOLT, MR &/ OP.

Curiously they are neighbours on my list as well, but in the bottom 10.

I think I'm more drawn to LTK for its more rounded characters, more compelling story (though flawed) and interesting music, despite being more attracted to the locations, the naval component and the Bond v Bond girl dynamic in TSWLM (even though it's not explored as effectively as it should).

AMC Hornet wrote:

As a companion to CR and OHMSS, LTK fits better.

But I still prefer TSWLM. It goes better with TB, YOLT, MR &/ OP.

Oh okay. Yeah I guess as Companion pieces, perhaps CR and OHMSS are maybe too much alike, and maybe I should take one of them off the top 3 instead, just have LTK and TSWLM be both on there for more variety. Tough call.

Take out CR.

Honestly, I'd give it to TSWLM. When you already have OHMSS/CR at the top of the list, LTK feels lesser, whereas TSWLM provides some buoyancy among the top three.

Oh okay. Well what I like about TSWLM is that it's the best in the series for hardware in my opinion. We got Atlantis, big tankers and subs, possibly the best Bond car, nuclear missiles and the whole shabang.

Licence to Kill wins as possibly the most different movie of the series, in a good way. Most of the movie takes place in the U.S. and latin America, and has a more revenge story, where Bond is the one driving the plot, and not the villain, which is different.

So LTK wins for being possibly the most different in the series, in a good way for me, and TSWLM wins for the gadgets and hardware being the best.

In concept, LTK would win in that regard, but I think it's kind of a drag to actually watch. It's got some of the right elements there, but the execution is lacking. It's also just an ugly film.

It does have a bit of a made for TV look to it, I do see that. But I do like the action scenes.

The tanker chase is definitely a series highlight. Not so much of the other ones, aside from the bit with Bond water skiing without skis.

I've never admired the tanker chase as much as many others. I felt like I'd already seen it in the Road Warrior. Perhaps if they'd finished up at the lab I'd feel differently.

[quote="ironpony"]Oh okay.  Well what I like about TSWLM is that it's the best in the series for hardware in my opinion.  We got Atlantis, big tankers and subs, possibly the best Bond car, nuclear missiles and the whole shabang.  

Really? The Lotus is a better car than the DB5, DB9 ?....well ok but nah

Oh yeah, the question....License to kill.

An odd pair to pit against each other ... on the one hand, you've got a big, bold, 'entire human race at risk' romp of a Bond film in Spy and on the other, you've got Bond going rogue in order to exact revenge on the ruthless drug kingpin who hospitalised his buddy and killed said buddy's new wife in what was the series' bloodiest entry at the time in LTK.

Tonally, 2 very different Bond films.

Yeah and that's what makes it hard to choose.

silvertoe wrote:

ironpony wrote:

Oh okay.  Well what I like about TSWLM is that it's the best in the series for hardware in my opinion.  We got Atlantis, big tankers and subs, possibly the best Bond car, nuclear missiles and the whole shabang.  

Really? The Lotus is a better car than the DB5, DB9 ?....well ok but nah

Which car is the DB9? Die Another Day? That was a good car too, but the Lotus can go underwater.

The Vanquish (aka The Vanish) was the one in DAD.

For sale if you want it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ORHd3vYF_s

So, just watched TSWLM and reached one conclusion Barbara bach is the worst actress (i use the term loosely) on the planet,my god she stinks this film up to heaven, the casting couch must of been creaking the day she walked through the door, i mean who thought Ringo's ball and chain was a good choice for the female lead in a major film release? She has two redeeming features and they are easy to see for most of the film. I wonder if she and Caroline munroe had a gypsy camp style fight for the part....it's a nice thought aint it?

Yeah, I think we all know why she was hired ... in fact, we can see why during the 'Haven't you ever seen a Major takin' a shower before?' scene .

You know before being on this board I never once heard a complaint about Anya in Spy or Bach's acting prowess.
I still don't think it's merited as the character is supposed to have a cold glacial front and be very Russian by the book at first until 007 finally breaks through her defenses. This happens in flashes throughout the film which while very subtle are important and believable. Sure it may not be to the level of what happens in Wood's novelization but it is handled properly and climaxed in the finale when XXX decides to not kill Bond.

The one that now really sticks out to me as not working is poor Melina in FYEO. Gorgeous, resourceful, but yet has all the personality of a staring fish for most of the film. She has the great introduction, reprises Fleming in the Gonzalez dispatching, has the conviction is telling Bond of her mission,smiles for a second in the markets and then....more staring.

Oh Boots, you should've been on the old forum. Some of the comments about her were savage. She looked like an alien was one I think. Bach that is.

silvertoe wrote:

So, just watched TSWLM and reached one conclusion Barbara bach is the worst actress (i use the term loosely) on the planet,my god she stinks this film up to heaven, the casting couch must of been creaking  the day she walked through the door, i mean who thought Ringo's ball and chain was a good choice for the female lead in a major film release? She has two redeeming features and they are easy to see for most of the film. I wonder if she and Caroline munroe had a gypsy camp style fight for the part....it's a nice thought aint it?

Can't say I disagree...

HGTB wrote:

You know before being on this board I never once heard a complaint about Anya in Spy or Bach's acting prowess.
I still don't think it's merited as the character is supposed to have a cold glacial front and be very Russian by the book at first until 007 finally breaks through her defenses. This happens in flashes throughout the film which while very subtle are important and believable. Sure it may not be to the level of what happens in Wood's novelization but it is handled properly and climaxed in the finale when XXX decides to not kill Bond.

Oh Boots, I think the complaints about Bach's acting started on the set of Spy! Gilbert was getting fed up with Bach for her range (or lack of) and vice verse because he kept demanding take after take.

HGTB wrote:

The one that now really sticks out to me as not working is poor Melina in FYEO. Gorgeous, resourceful, but yet has all the personality of a staring fish for most of the film. She has the great introduction, reprises Fleming in the Gonzalez dispatching, has the conviction is telling Bond of her mission,smiles for a second in the markets and then....more staring.

I hate to say it because I love it so much, but the two things that keep FYEO from climbing even higher on my list are the sub vs sub sequence and Bouquet. She has her moments, as you say, but her overall flatness isn't helped by the fact that I don't find her all that beautiful. That said, her goal of revenge works with those grief-stricken stares for most part, unlike Bach's nothingness in a role that demanded the likes of Honor Blackman, Luciana Palazzi, Diana Rigg or Sophie Marceau. Imagine Izabella Scorupco as Anya?

I maintain that had Gilbert been happy with Bach's performance, more would have been done with that dynamic. But because she wasn't up to the task, he was forced to give us the bare bones of it and pad out the film with gags and goofiness (particularly in Egypt).

Bach has always gone back and forth movie because I like the character on paper but Bach's performance is pretty wooden. But they still give her a lot more to do compared to usual for a Bond girl, so it's a tough call.

Do they? Aside from her own briefing scene with Gogol and the hotel scene, she's not given much else. For someone supposedly Bond's opposite number, she can't even fight for herself.

Besides, no amount of material to work with would enable a wooden actress to be a great Bond girl. In other words, Tracy or Elektra would fall flat if Bach played either one.