What unused Fleming ideas would you like to see in a future Bond film?

Vesper wrote:

If it ruins the plot, just replace 'He built it so people could suicide' with 'He built it to store drugs/secrets/Christians' and the Japanese market won't know the difference and will eat it up like they do every Bond film.

Do you honestly think that the Japanese people will never pick up on a regionally-censiored version of the film?

Prisoner Monkeys wrote:

Vesper wrote:

If it ruins the plot, just replace 'He built it so people could suicide' with 'He built it to store drugs/secrets/Christians' and the Japanese market won't know the difference and will eat it up like they do every Bond film.

Do you honestly think that the Japanese people will never pick up on a regionally-censiored version of the film?

Even if they did, who cares? I honestly doubt it's a deal breaker that the story cannot be done because it will offend the whole of Japan, that a villain is buiding a garden to entice people to commit suicide.

I think you are worrying yourself over absolutely nothing.

Besides which, no point in even discussing this, because its so obvious EON would try to create a bullshit storyline like QoS (even when they don't have a script during filming), than using the plenty of high quality material left in the Fleming novels.

That's a case for gross negligence of the franchise right there.

Maybe they feel that they shouldn't film it for the sake of filming it - that they don't want to create an entire film based around the Garden of Death - and so are holding it in reserve until such time as they feel it is appropriate for an upcoming film. After all, what would you say if the Perla de las Dunas hotel in QUANTUM OF SOLACE included the Garden of Death in some way, not because it was suited to the film, but because it was lying around unused.?

Prisoner Monkeys wrote:

Maybe they feel that they shouldn't film it for the sake of filming it - that they don't want to create an entire film based around the Garden of Death - and so are holding it in reserve until such time as they feel it is appropriate for an upcoming film. After all, what would you say if the Perla de las Dunas hotel in QUANTUM OF SOLACE included the Garden of Death in some way, not because it was suited to the film, but because it was lying around unused.?

But we are not just talking about the end of YOLT as unused material. We are talking about MR, DAF, TSWLM and TMWTGG also......

That is 5 novels in total - easily enough material there for at least 3 movies, never mind just one.

Again, would you prefer that unused content was adapted into a fim because:

1) It was appropriate to the film?

OR

2) It had not been used yet?

I would rather sit around and wait a few more years for a proper adaptation of the unused content rather than have the instant gratification of seeing it shoehorned into the next film for the sake of it.

Recall, if you will, the scene where Bond descends into Graves' geodesic dome in DIE ANOTHER DAY. The entire area is lush and overgrown. This could reasonably be written as the Garden of Death, with Bond having to navigate thickets of poisonous plants and venomous creatures in order to find Jinx in the laser room. If DIE ANOTHER DAY had been made with this representation of the Garden of Death, would you be happy with it? It is, after all, the most-requested unadapted content, now finally realised in film. That film just so happens to be DIE ANOTHER DAY - the worst film in the Bond franchise.

What I'm trying to say is that it is a question of waiting for the opportune moment. EON should not rush to include the unadapted Fleming content simply because it has not been used yet. That, to me, sounds like a recipie for disaster.

Instant gratification? Fleming's last novel was published 47 bleedin' years ago.

Perilagu Khan wrote:

Instant gratification? Fleming's last novel was published 47 bleedin' years ago.

Exactly.

I'm sure if the writers can shoehorn in meaningless freefalling scenes, speedboat chases, rooftop chases, sword fights, parasurfing, invisible cars, etc. then I'm sure it's not beyond the talent of our illustrious writers to conjure up a script which includes scenes from any of the unused 5 Fleming novels.

All other crap has been shoehorned in over the past decade - at least shoehorning more meaningful Fleming scenes would be more worthwhile.
Maibaum had no problem adapting Fleming scenes and characters into the scripts.

Or maybe it is beyond the talents of our Beavis & Butthead scriptwriters??

Perilagu Khan wrote:

Instant gratification? Fleming's last novel was published 47 bleedin' years ago.

You're missing the point - would you rather have the unused content shoehorned into the next film, and likely done very poorly, or would you prefer to wait for an extra film or two for a time when that unused content could be done well?

Like I said - would you be satisfied with the Garden of Death if it appeared in DIE ANOTHER DAY?

Prisoner Monkeys wrote:

Like I said - would you be satisfied with the Garden of Death if it appeared in DIE ANOTHER DAY?

You do have a point there.

Prisoner Monkeys wrote:

Vesper wrote:

If it ruins the plot, just replace 'He built it so people could suicide' with 'He built it to store drugs/secrets/Christians' and the Japanese market won't know the difference and will eat it up like they do every Bond film.

Do you honestly think that the Japanese people will never pick up on a regionally-censiored version of the film?

On a widespread scale? No. And even if they did, the vast majority would never watch it, and of those who did, only a select few would care.

Think about it this way: if the suicide culture in Japan is still a big taboo, how likely are their media to catch on to the references in the film and make a negative press campaign about it? That would require them to bring bigger publcity/talk about it more. It wouldn't be an issue.

Quote :

Like I said - would you be satisfied with the Garden of Death if it appeared in DIE ANOTHER DAY?

Didn't they cut out the shots of Halle Berry's snatch?

Vesper wrote:

Think about it this way: if the suicide culture in Japan is still a big taboo, how likely are their media to catch on to the references in the film and make a negative press campaign about it? That would require them to bring bigger publcity/talk about it more. It wouldn't be an issue.

It's not taboo - quite the opposite, really. Suicide was (and to some people, still is) viewed as acceptable in some cases. As YOLT depicts it, suicide is seen as an acceptable practice when one is looking to relieve themselves of dishonour. However, Japan wants to change that. They want suicide to be the taboo that it is in other cultures. A straight adaptation of YOLT would likely set that progress back.

Prisoner Monkeys wrote:

Vesper wrote:

Think about it this way: if the suicide culture in Japan is still a big taboo, how likely are their media to catch on to the references in the film and make a negative press campaign about it? That would require them to bring bigger publcity/talk about it more. It wouldn't be an issue.

It's not taboo - quite the opposite, really. Suicide was (and to some people, still is) viewed as acceptable in some cases. As YOLT depicts it, suicide is seen as an acceptable practice when one is looking to relieve themselves of dishonour. However, Japan wants to change that. They want suicide to be the taboo that it is in other cultures. A straight adaptation of YOLT would likely set that progress back.

I doubt it would stop a multi-million dollar franchise though, and I also doubt it would lose ticket sales in Japan because of such a storyline.
The garden of death really only features towards the end of the novel - likewise this could also be adapted straight to film - the final piece of the jigsaw before Bond enters the garden of death, towards the end of the movie.

It's not as though this would be the main focus point of the entire film.

@Prisoner Numpties: You're not thinking straight. If suicide were shown in a negative light (therefore a social taboo) - why would that set progress back?

Because YOLT had people seeking out the Garden of Death to commit suicide as a way of reclaiming their honour. It showed suicide in a negative light, but it also showed a Japan where suicide was considered acceptable.

A showed a cultural tradition, but IIRC, the Japanese government was still embarrassed about it.

Prisoner Monkeys wrote:

Vesper wrote:

Think about it this way: if the suicide culture in Japan is still a big taboo, how likely are their media to catch on to the references in the film and make a negative press campaign about it? That would require them to bring bigger publcity/talk about it more. It wouldn't be an issue.

It's not taboo - quite the opposite, really. Suicide was (and to some people, still is) viewed as acceptable in some cases. As YOLT depicts it, suicide is seen as an acceptable practice when one is looking to relieve themselves of dishonour. However, Japan wants to change that. They want suicide to be the taboo that it is in other cultures. A straight adaptation of YOLT would likely set that progress back.

My understanding of Japanese culture from when I studied it is that it was viewed as acceptable and honorable by many but it was still completely unspoken about.

Prisoner Monkeys wrote:

Because YOLT had people seeking out the Garden of Death to commit suicide as a way of reclaiming their honour. It showed suicide in a negative light, but it also showed a Japan where suicide was considered acceptable.

But everyone knows this anyway. It's not as though the storyline would shock the whole world to its core in utter disbelief at what has been revealed.

The story can easily be spun into such a negative light towards suicide that the Japanese government could actually be very pro towards it, mainly as a campaign against such a thing happening. It all depends on how it is handled and written. If it means twisting Fleming's original version slightly to adapt it to a Japanese market that won't be offended, so be it.

You seem dead against the idea, without exhausting any possible angle to allow such a storyline to happen.

Black is black, white is white, and there are no shades of grey in your world.

Prisoner Monkeys wrote:

Perilagu Khan wrote:

Instant gratification? Fleming's last novel was published 47 bleedin' years ago.

You're missing the point - would you rather have the unused content shoehorned into the next film, and likely done very poorly, or would you prefer to wait for an extra film or two for a time when that unused content could be done well?

Like I said - would you be satisfied with the Garden of Death if it appeared in DIE ANOTHER DAY?

It is you who miss the point. To wit, who, praytell, is demanding the GoD be "shoehorned" into the next film? Many of us, on the other hand, wonder why this feature, among numerous other choice bits of Fleming, has sat unused for half a century as Babs tells us with a straight face that there's no Fleming left. Likewise, we are suggesting that these items be used sometime in the near future since they haven't been used yet. When you talk about "shoehorning," you are debating against a straw man.
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Prisoner Monkeys wrote:

Vesper wrote:

Think about it this way: if the suicide culture in Japan is still a big taboo, how likely are their media to catch on to the references in the film and make a negative press campaign about it? That would require them to bring bigger publcity/talk about it more. It wouldn't be an issue.

It's not taboo - quite the opposite, really. Suicide was (and to some people, still is) viewed as acceptable in some cases. As YOLT depicts it, suicide is seen as an acceptable practice when one is looking to relieve themselves of dishonour. However, Japan wants to change that. They want suicide to be the taboo that it is in other cultures. A straight adaptation of YOLT would likely set that progress back.

I'm sorry, but you really don't know what you're talking about here. Suicide is hardly depicted as "acceptable" in YOLT. Fleming depicts it as a horrifying national psychosis.

Don't encourage him, Khan.

Perilagu Khan wrote:

I'm sorry, but you really don't know what you're talking about here. Suicide is hardly depicted as "acceptable" in YOLT. Fleming depicts it as a horrifying national psychosis.

Yes, he did. And he depicted it as a horrifying national psychosis because suicide was and is less of a taboo than it is in the western world. Japanese people were willing to commit suicide in order to reclaim lost honour/amend dishonour, and that mortified Fleming. It's a horrifying national psychosis because of the attitude towards suicide.

The problem is that the nuance would likely be lost in film.

I would really like to see Bond's fight with the squid from Dr. No.

Walecs wrote:

I would really like to see Bond's fight with the squid from Dr. No.

You wouldn't see it in this day and age. The animal activists would be up in arms.

CJB wrote:

Walecs wrote:

I would really like to see Bond's fight with the squid from Dr. No.

You wouldn't see it in this day and age. The animal activists would be up in arms.

Or tentacles, as the case may be.

Imagine at the premiere, PETA pelting Babs with God knows what...Well...