Request to see posts restored

As you may be aware, Lazenby just got rid of all posts related to the recent Modgate. Whether or not they're gone for good or consigned to a special "mod-only" section is beyond my knowledge, but it's deeply worrying nevertheless. Burning or hiding the evidence won't solve of this forum's problems, merely prolong them.

What this means is this thread isn't safe from deletion, and nor is any other public questioning of the mods or our great Führer, that you or I might make. Lazenby will stamp down on any dissenting opinion with an iron fist.

If you care at all about any kind of democracy on this forum, show your support. While Lazenby has his administrative controls, you have the power of numbers.

Take a stand.

What is wrong with everyone? Seriously LS, I didn't want to say this, but everything was going well until you screwed up. Don't dramatise this because of your wrongdoing. Lazenby is doing a great job, given the circumstances. People wanted a Mod section, now you're against it?

Why can't we just talk about Bond and movies without all the superfluity of politics?

Voted no, because I hope I never have to set eyes on those f*cking posts ever again. Wish I'd taken my lighter to them all, but instead decided to wrap them up, put a big fat bow around them and leave them for M to deal with when he returns (which I hated doing because the guy is going through some pretty unimaginably bad shit right now), because I'm banging my head against the wall trying to get people to let this whole thing drop.

Sharky, I'll be frank. You're lucky to even be looking at any posts here right now, let alone demanding to see posts you've already seen which have simply been locked away for now. Your stunt with the multiple accounts didn't only trigger Ambler's annoyance and create a whole pile of mistrust around here, it has also put these forums in a f*cking awful position as far as recruitment goes at what should have been our peak time for attracting new members, with a new Bond film only about five weeks away. It's now ten times harder to register here now that instant registration has had to be replaced with e-mail verification, a check and an ok from myself. Any other admin would have kicked you to the f*cking kerb for this, but instead I tried my ass off to keep you here, and for what? To have to continue putting up with all of this shit.

On top of all that, I had to waste a sh*tload of my time this morning sorting out each of the half a dozen threads which these f*cking repetitive arguments have spilled into, as well as a pile of merging and moving stuff. It's an absolute f*cking mug's job to be doing on the back of 12 hour work shifts and hours of travel there and back, but I do it nevertheless because I want some much-needed f*cking normality brought back to this place.

FieldsMan wrote:

People wanted a Mod section, now you're against it?

Under the condition that me, Ambler, and several other interested parties could see it. Give us that permission, delete this thread, and I'll be happy.

Done. I think the world of both of you as members here, and never wanted any of this. You know that's the truth. Sharky, check your PMs.

Though a serious matter it feels beyond a joke, drowning in a pool of paranoia and backbiting that would make East Germany seem tame. Just like those days in the waning months of old MI6 when it just went round and round and round.

I do feel for you Laze old sport. You took over admin...well, put it this way -wrong time, wrong place.

Yep. If I'd had my way it could have easily been yourself, Python or Sharky taking all of this.

Oh well....

Thanks Laz. Finishing off the PM right now.

FieldsMan wrote:

What is wrong with everyone? Seriously LS, I didn't want to say this, but everything was going well until you screwed up. Don't dramatise this because of your wrongdoing. Lazenby is doing a great job, given the circumstances. People wanted a Mod section, now you're against it?

Why can't we just talk about Bond and movies without all the superfluity of politics?

Hopefully this will be my one and only need to comment on the matter.....

#1 Sharky, you were a great recruiter for the site and a great champion of its virtues and a great contributor and poster. Here comes the dreaded "but".......but, you no longer have the credibility to tell the current admin and mod team how they should run things. You forfeited that right when you altered JWild's posts and then created several bogus accounts, a few of which were designed to make people think Ambler was spamming our message boards. When confronted with what you've done you chose the honorable course of action, which was to retire as a moderator so as not to bring any more disgrace down upon the house of Bond AND Beyond. Go out with dignity, Sharky. Go out quietly. Not with a bang, but a whimper. We don't need any more "calls to arms" or likening the current admin, Lazenby, to a Nazi. It's not your site anymore. You don't get to choose the direction and the path that the site takes.

#2 I'd been asked to join sides, but this has been one of the more confusing fights I've seen in a while. Sharky framed Ambler for posts Ambler didn't make, but Ambler has formed some sort of an alliance with Sharky (and others) to try and get other members of the forums to make demands to Lazenby on how to improve the place. While those may be some good ideas, they should be coming from someone other than Sharky. He simply cannot be the face of the loyal opposition. A great deal of the problems we're having to sift through right now we're caused by chiefly Sharky, but a few other moderators with lessening degrees of culpability, so I"m not really convinced that we're all best served by having the person who created these problems explain to us how his suggestions would make this place better. Sharky didn't make this place a better forum to visit during the entire JWild saga.

#3 And I can't really choose to pick Lazenby's side either. There's just nothing there for me to hang my moderating hat on, so to speak. You see Lazenby, your first action to this mess (upon assuming Admin powers) was to take no action, which I found equally astonishing. You meant to say that there was nothing at all that took place prior to assuming the Admin controls that you didn't think need some moderators to step down or be fired? I see that Sharky is no longer a moderator, but that's because he stepped down rather than you forcing him out. No? Because you felt that Sharky's actions didn't rise to the level of him losing his moderating privileges, my jaw dropped and I realized I could not moderate for you now or anytime in the future. It's not going to work. I see the world in black and white, right and wrong, the quick versus the dead. I could never live up to your styles, standards or beliefs because I sense we see the world in diametrically opposed points of view. It's not that I don't enjoy being moderator and helping people, it's that I don't think I can serve under you Laz. I don't want to go back into a pattern where a good decision was made, then was not supported by the Admin, Admin reverses decisions, then 3 weeks later Admin reverses his decision which was a reversal of a decision that his moderators made unanimously weeks before. But beyond all else, I suspect your life philosophy simply does not line up well with mine at all.

If I had my way I would have reduced all moderators who had anything to do with tampering with JWild's posts to just lower level rank and file of the forums. Being a moderator should be like finding gold, or a pearl. If everyone had access to gold, pearls, or a Lamborghini, then the relative worth of each product would be lowered because if just anyone can get their hands on these materials it automatically lowers the prestige of the item. Same with moderating. If you have too many moderators not only is the status of being a moderator demeaned, but it also makes accountability hard. JWild's posts were a great example. We had so many moderators with power to alter his posts that no one knows for sure who edited one of his posts to say: "I am a c***".

You need one admin and maybe 3 moderators at this time. No more, and definitely no less.

Please, don't forget to demote me from Moderator to a lower level rank tonight. Thank you.

Gravity, with all due respect mate, it's probably a lot easier to feel the way you do when you're not filling the shoes I've been asked to fill, and completely against my will at that. For the record, it was myself who suggested you as a mod to M very early in your tenure here, so we're maybe not that far apart as you suggest in what we want from these forums.

Sure, I didn't fire or suspend moderators, I hold my hands up to that. But, like others here who have been quick to criticise, you could bear in mind that this was practically my very first act as stand-in admin. I was being asked to boot a member whom M pretty much considered to be the lifeblood of the forums, a member of some influence who, for all I knew, could have taken a dozen or so members away from here with him had he gone.

I had no way of knowing what the ramifications would be had I started firing mods, this whole affair was a hangover from M's tenure and I got dumped with the absolute brunt of it from day one of my tenure as admin at a time when I should have been trying to win people over and prove that I would be an approachable, understanding and hardworking admin until M comes back.

People also seem to be forgetting one of the key reasons they preferred this place over the likes of MI6 and CB.n, that they were allowed more freedom and that the mods/admin weren't self-satisfied authoritarian Hitlers who would shit on you in the blink of an eye and impose rigid rules on members (something I've been sadly forced to do in the wake of all this, but it was never what I wanted to do).

Yes, Sharky did wrong, I've never denied that, excused that or made light of that but, for relations sake (and, I'll admit, as an act of gratitude for all the great work he's done here), it made more sense to me to accept his resignation than to fire him. Right now, Sharky is no longer a mod, I have a full list of rules up on the boards (most of which I would think you'd agree with, given your comments in the guideline suggestions thread) which I will abide by rigidly in the full knowledge that there are now clear guidelines as to what is acceptable, what isn't and what punishment will befall people who disregard those rules.

There were no guidelines nor precedents in place when Sharky's "crimes" were committed, thus the whole affair was left wide open to argument. Plus I'm only a stand-in admin, it would do people good to try and remember that. I'm the one who'd have had to carry the can if M had returned to find Sharky gone with possibly a pile of other members having followed him under the assumption that Lazenby has turned the place into MI6 or CB.n. Still, I've put the effort in to write out rules, I've taken nothing but flak for over a week now and I've sifted out every inch of shit from the boards and stored it away. The mod count has been lowered in a diplomatic and decent way without any firings, and the vast majority of the board are more than happy to just get on with posting rather than getting on my back. Give me the same chance I gave you, that's all I'm asking.

Lazenby. wrote:

Gravity, with all due respect mate, it's probably a lot easier to feel the way you do when you're not filling the shoes I've been asked to fill, and completely against my will at that. For the record, it was myself who suggested you as a mod to M very early in your tenure here, so we're maybe not that far apart as you suggest in what we want from these forums. Give me the same chance I gave you, that's all I'm asking.

Well, when you put it that way....I can hardly refuse.

So I guess I'm still all in. I'll support what you're trying to do and you know me well enough to know that I'll be direct, but professional, when I have a countervailing opinion.

Gravity's Silhouette wrote:

You need one admin and maybe 3 moderators at this time. No more, and definitely no less.

Please, don't forget to demote me from Moderator to a lower level rank tonight. Thank you.

Gravity's Silhouette wrote:

Lazenby. wrote:

Gravity, with all due respect mate, it's probably a lot easier to feel the way you do when you're not filling the shoes I've been asked to fill, and completely against my will at that. For the record, it was myself who suggested you as a mod to M very early in your tenure here, so we're maybe not that far apart as you suggest in what we want from these forums. Give me the same chance I gave you, that's all I'm asking.

Well, when you put it that way....I can hardly refuse.

So I guess I'm still all in. I'll support what you're trying to do and you know me well enough to know that I'll be direct, but professional, when I have a countervailing opinion.

Why did you have to change your mind? :(

Largo's Shark wrote:

Gravity's Silhouette wrote:

You need one admin and maybe 3 moderators at this time. No more, and definitely no less.

Please, don't forget to demote me from Moderator to a lower level rank tonight. Thank you.

Gravity's Silhouette wrote:

Lazenby. wrote:

Gravity, with all due respect mate, it's probably a lot easier to feel the way you do when you're not filling the shoes I've been asked to fill, and completely against my will at that. For the record, it was myself who suggested you as a mod to M very early in your tenure here, so we're maybe not that far apart as you suggest in what we want from these forums. Give me the same chance I gave you, that's all I'm asking.

Well, when you put it that way....I can hardly refuse.

So I guess I'm still all in. I'll support what you're trying to do and you know me well enough to know that I'll be direct, but professional, when I have a countervailing opinion.

Why did you have to change your mind? :(

Why do you care? Do you have some sort of agenda?

nm

Largo's Shark wrote:

Why did you have to change your mind? :(

Well, Lazenby's appeal seemed to be heartfelt. It was certainly one of the more personal messages I think I've read in a while. He came across as sympathetic. That's it, mostly.

It's just a message board. It's not like we're fighting a war against Islamic terrorism or free speech. This isn't Syria or Libya. At some point someone had to back off, so I did. I'm not intransigent. This whole drama, which started with the way JWild was handled, has gone on long enough. All points have been raised. All objections have been noted. Everyone knows who did what, and what each person believes and where each person is coming from. We're 5 weeks away from SKYFALL. I just don't feel like going on any further with this.

Perilagu Khan wrote:

Why do you care? Do you have some sort of agenda?

Very much so. I want to see less moderators on this board. 8 is overkill for a small, fragile community, as far as I'm concerned.

However, I've said what needs to be said, and as Gravity mentioned earlier, I'm the wrong messenger to bring about change in BAB. I'll quietly move on.

But 9 mods were okay when you were one of them?

Nope.

I think 10 mods is a good round number but I defer entirely to Admin on the matter. 10 mods makes the chances of one being around at any given time quite high. Blatant spammers can be dealt with quickly and efficiently. Takes the pressure off everyone, to be around all the time. There are benefits to having 10 mods. Spread the "work" around.

I would welcome back Shark or Control as mods. Both are quite capable and are well invested in the site. I think the whole J7 thing can be filed as water under the bridge. Something we have learned from. But bottom line is that we mods and members exist at the sufferance of the Admin, so I'm not inclined to make demands of Admin -- any Admin.

Laz is Admin. He is in charge. The rest of us toss in our two cents and ideally back-off. The board is hierarchical by design. By definition Admin is always right.

btw,is this an actual mod-section now or a mod-plus-Sharky section? :scratch: I'll search around. The answer may lie elsewhere.

It's a mod section plus Sharky and Ambler as far as I know.

But I agree, LS and Control's contributions have been great, and would welcome them back as Mods. But to kick up a fuss about all this is really juvenile.

tiffanywint wrote:

btw,is this an actual mod-section now or a mod-plus-Sharky section? :scratch: I'll search around. The answer may lie elsewhere.

Try the first page of this thread. :)

FieldsMan wrote:

It's a mod section plus Sharky and Ambler as far as I know.

But I agree, LS and Control's contributions have been great, and would welcome them back as Mods. But to kick up a fuss about all this is really juvenile.

I wouldn't. I like them as posters, but they've forfeited any credibility they had as mods.

Relatedly, quality is more important than quantity when it comes to mods. Ten mods is no problem as long as they all have personal integrity and professionalism.

Laz. come on mate, answer your PMs. :)

It's dealt with Sharky, no probs.

Cheers. Feared you might have done a HAL 9000.