Homeland (discussion with spoilers)

Surprised not to see a thread on HOMELAND here. Watched the first season over the past few days and was absolutely riveted all the way through. Saw the first episode of the second season yesterday.

Well-acted (Damian Lewis and Manty Patinkin are especially excellent), cleverly and wittily written (with some terrific dialogue worthy of a young Tarantino) and beautifully shot, this is one of the best TV shows I've ever seen, and definitely the most suspenseful. It's about as thrilling as TV (or indeed film) gets, and it's also thought-provoking and moving. It wipes the floor with 24 and is pretty much up there with THE WIRE in terms of quality.

Any fans here?

As a side note, If I remember correctly, Lewis was one of the many actors considered to play Bond in CASINO ROYALE (2006).

I've been meaning to check this out. So much good TV, so little time.

Harmsway wrote:

I've been meaning to check this out. So much good TV, so little time.

Same here. It's on my list.

At the risk of being boring, same here too.

Like it a lot myself. Thought Lewis's Emmy was well-deserved.

Was going to rent it but actually got irked that this guy beat out Jon Hamm, so now it is on hold behind BOARDWALK EMPIRE season 2. My mad will be over by then, now that I've read a couple tech articles about the show and am even more interested.

I watched season one and found it pretty disappointing. Saw the first episode of season two and it looks to have gotten even more unrealistic. It's entertaining TV, but I can't take it seriously as a mature drama. It's more an adolescent fantasy of what intelligence work in the Middle East entails.

I take your point but I can't think of any espionage-related TV show or film series that seems any more realistic than HOMELAND.

As far as recent espionage TV series go, I heard RUBICON was awesome. Alas, it's not available on DVD.

Loomis wrote:

I take your point but I can't think of any espionage-related TV show or film series that seems any more realistic than HOMELAND.

Far from being perfect themselves, I'd argue that both the movie and TV adaptations of "Tinker, Tailor, ..." are superior in that department.

Well, I did say "TV show or film series". I would class TINKER as a TV serial rather than a "show" - a show being something that goes on for multiple seasons. And, of course, the recent film version of TINKER is a stand-alone affair (I don't know whether a sequel is in the works).

I was bored by the BBC serial of TINKER but did quite enjoy the recent film. However, the film did strike me as unrealistic in places. There were a couple of moments that I found difficult to buy, and I felt that the ending was contrived and silly.

But, yeah, HOMELAND does indeed have quite a few implausibilities, coincidences, plot holes and unanswered questions (although maybe some of those things will be addressed in season two). Doesn't stop it being enormously entertaining (IMO, anyway).

Harmsway wrote:

As far as recent espionage TV series go, I heard RUBICON was awesome. Alas, it's not available on DVD.

I've never heard of it. Will investigate.

As you can see in my original post, I never claimed it wasn't entertaining (though I do hate Danes' portrayal of the CIA operative). There's just too many big and small things about the way they present the intelligence work and agencies that annoy me.

I just finished the first season and I agree with Loomis -- Homeland puts 24 to shame, though I profess I was never enamored with 24 in the first place. The season finale was just great TV, though I do think the season sagged a bit at times prior with a little too much of this cat-and-mouse game that ran in circles. Still though, I can see why critics love it, what with all the character work (Danes is great, particularly in the last couple episodes of the season) and lack of explosions and all that.

It's really gone downhill in the believability department this season. And I didn't find it particularly realistic even in the first season. The plot development that took the cake for me is the deputy director of the CIA deciding - without any input from his superiors - to put Brody back in the field as a double agent. Never mind the fact that they just found out he had planned to murder the vice president and his entourage nor that he has daily access to the Capitol Hill.

"24" is actually a very fair comparison. The biggest difference is that "Homeland" actually has pretenses of being a serious drama. Whereas "24" knew what it was.

Salomé wrote:

It's really gone downhill in the believability department this season. And I didn't find it particularly realistic even in the first season. The plot development that took the cake for me is the deputy director of the CIA deciding - without any input from his superiors - to put Brody back in the field as a double agent. Never mind the fact that they just found out he had planned to murder the vice president and his entourage nor that he has daily access to the Capitol Hill.

"24" is actually a very fair comparison. The biggest difference is that "Homeland" actually has pretenses of being a serious drama. Whereas "24" knew what it was.

Damn. Guess I should've waited until I caught up with season two to revisit this thread.

Jack Wade wrote:

Salomé wrote:

It's really gone downhill in the believability department this season. And I didn't find it particularly realistic even in the first season. The plot development that took the cake for me is the deputy director of the CIA deciding - without any input from his superiors - to put Brody back in the field as a double agent. Never mind the fact that they just found out he had planned to murder the vice president and his entourage nor that he has daily access to the Capitol Hill.

"24" is actually a very fair comparison. The biggest difference is that "Homeland" actually has pretenses of being a serious drama. Whereas "24" knew what it was.

Damn. Guess I should've waited until I caught up with season two to revisit this thread.

I also wish I hadn't read that post. I've been watching season two each Sunday night since it started but the episode Salomé refers to has yet to air here in Britain - I think we're a week or two behind the States. I'd been looking forward to finding out later today how Brody begins to get out of last week's astonishing cliffhanger - well, now I know.

I did guess what Salomé describes as a possibility, though. But Salomé, you may be overlooking something, because I suspect that

Spoiler:

I've edited the title of this thread to reflect the fact that spoilers are being aired here.

Sorry about the spoilers, I posted under the misguided assumption that most of the people who read this thread would be caught up with the show.

Again, my apologies.

Second season is not bad but it seems to lack the first's spark. As the Times remark it's more the Damien Lewis-Claire Danes show than anything else though Saul's a favourite of mine. Does it matter Lewis' accent is the same from Band of Brothers, no. Is his on-screen wife irritating, yes.

Brody 2016

I'm all caught up now, and while I largely really like the show, I'd have to say my only modicum of a complaint is that it might have taken a bit too long for any kind of satisfying payoff. Maybe I'm just impatient; maybe I'm used to some of the bigger arcs being contained and resolved in a season's time, but only now has ...

Spoiler:

I guess I'm just always a little skeptical when shows don't meander from one big arc. It makes me question how much they can stretch out of it without too much filler. However, for the most part, every episode of Homeland has been good or great so far. I just hope it can keep it up.

Hilly wrote:

Second season is not bad but it seems to lack the first's spark. As the Times remark it's more the Damien Lewis-Claire Danes show than anything else though Saul's a favourite of mine. Does it matter Lewis' accent is the same from Band of Brothers, no. Is his on-screen wife irritating, yes.

Brody 2016

I'm prepared to overlook Mrs Brody's irritation-causing for the fact that she's about as MILFy as it gets :*e*: . I'll admit there's things in this season that stretch believability somewhat (chief of which for me was him carrying on a phone conversation with his missus whilst he was killing the bomb-vest maker). But I'm still enjoying it.

Salomé wrote:

Sorry about the spoilers, I posted under the misguided assumption that most of the people who read this thread would be caught up with the show.

Again, my apologies.

No worries. I watched the episode in question last night and still found it terrific stuff, as ever. And it still had its share of surprises.

Blunt Instrument wrote:

I'll admit there's things in this season that stretch believability somewhat

Granted, although I find HOMELAND much more believable than, say, SKYFALL, and with much better performances as well.

Blunt Instrument wrote:

Hilly wrote:

Second season is not bad but it seems to lack the first's spark. As the Times remark it's more the Damien Lewis-Claire Danes show than anything else though Saul's a favourite of mine. Does it matter Lewis' accent is the same from Band of Brothers, no. Is his on-screen wife irritating, yes.

Brody 2016

I'm prepared to overlook Mrs Brody's irritation-causing for the fact that she's about as MILFy as it gets :*e*: . I'll admit there's things in this season that stretch believability somewhat (chief of which for me was him carrying on a phone conversation with his missus whilst he was killing the bomb-vest maker). But I'm still enjoying it.

that was some scene. Sort of like Ramius engaging Jack Ryan in conversation about Ryan's book as a torpedo is bearing down on Red October.

It's what I'd do in both situations.

A friend of mine has been hounding me to watch this, and even lent me the first season on DVD. Gonna try it out. I'm not really that interested, but I'll give it a shot.

Sounds like MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE as a TV show, but probably just a bunch of humourless running around?

Watched the first two episodes. I suppose it gets better....? I thought it was boring crap. I like the idea of it. It's basically THE MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE as a TV show. But the writing seems totally phoned in. I'm just not buying anything that I see, and I certainly can't believe this Claire Danes character works for the CIA. She should be teamed up with M from TWINE.

If you don't buy Claire Danes' character now, you're in for a treat at the end of the season and into season two. She acts the heck out of it, though.

Homeland does pick up a bit toward the back end of season one. I saw your Facebook post -- for my money, it's a bit more "exciting," for lack of a better word, to watch than Mad Men; while they're both character-focused, Mad Men is a tad bit more of a slow-burner than this, though Homeland is still tackling arcs from the first season. Just personal preference, though.