Last Bond Movie You Watched? 2.0

There's some wince-worthy stuff in the pre-credits sequence and at the end, but FYEO is otherwise premium Moore-era Bond.

I have a ticket booked for his 'An Evening With ... ' (or in Belfast's case, 'An Afternoon With ... ') show on November 19th. Very much looking forward to it.

The Thatcher ending and the PTS are a part of the film's charm for me. But everything in between is excellent work. Good to see a bit more love for FYEO!

So envious BI!

I wasn't going to miss it ... the chance to be in the same room (well OK, a theatre) as one of the Bonds doesn't roll around too often.

TWINE....still like the film, with particularly strong performances by Marceau, Dench and Carlyle. It must've been a great film: Sam Mendes completely rips it off for SKYFALL.

But I digress.

A few things bothered me in 1999 and still do in 2016.

The first nitpick is that Bond becomes suspicious of Elektra due to a tenuous connection he makes when Renard uses a similar phrase as Elektra. I *get* why Apted chooses to go down this plot avenue: he wants the audience to see that Bond is ahead of the situation and not being made too much a victim of Elektra's manipulations. The problem is, besides the clunky way Bond figures it out and then confronts Elektra, is that when Elektra finally reveals her true self and captures M, there's no genuine shock or surprise for the audience, because we've already been led to believe by Bond that Elektra is the villain. I would've edited that whole sequence out where Bond confronts Elektra and not even brought it up. I would've let the audience be stunned when Elektra shows M her father's broach/pin. Had Apted played the scene that way, I believe the audience would've truly been shocked. But they basically gave away their leverage by cluing the audience in too soon to be suspicious of Elektra.

Other big problem with the film is that there is a huge disparity in the amount of attention given to the female leads. Marceau's character was always the one that was the most familiar to the writers and therefore she's the better written of the two; it was the Christmas Jones character that caused all the re-writes on the script. They never could quite figure out how to integrate this character into the movie. Denise Richards took a really thin role and....well, did nothing with it. After her initial scene with Bond where she gave almost as good as she got (her Russian was actually pretty good unless they had someone dubbing for her), she basically fades into the background. She's in scenes, but she always seems to be in the background. She's a participant in the scenes, but always feels like wallpaper...or she's always reacting to situations, never being the protagonist. Perfect example: the scene where M arrives at the oil terminal. There's a lot going on between M, Bond, and Elektra, but Christmas is relegated to about 3 lines in the entire scene: "The bomb's not in the terminal", "Are you about to do what I think you're doing?" and "Me". Hardly the kind of dialogue that pushes the narrative or adds to the characterization.

She's also given really clunky lines (so was Brosnan), but a better actress could've taken some of that s*** and turned it into Shinola. She takes a line like "Isn't it time you opened up your present?" and gives it a flat, almost monotone delivery. And then even her best assets aren't put to good use; barely a glimmer.

This might've been a better film if they'd just allowed Bond to get blind-sided by Elektra and let her be the only Bond Girl (other than Dr. Warmflash and Cigar Girl). Maybe this was the kind of film where Brosnan's Bond doesn't get the girl in the end. Christmas Jones is almost completely unnecessary, and it's almost borderline-pervy that Bond is making time with a woman young enough to be his daughter, and certainly a college-age girl at that. But I guess Babs and Michael weren't ready to be that revolutionary just yet....they still wanted the traditional ending with Bond and the leading lady being interrupted while having sex. Still, I prefer some of the more moderate witticisms like "I believe he's attempting re-entry, Sir" and "Keeping the British end up!" to "I thought Christmas comes only once a year."

Good write up, Grav, but personally I disagree with some of it. I'm a big TWINE fan, so that comes as no surprise.

On your first point, on subsequent viewings of the film, I find myself always hoping that Elektra isn't the villain. Little clues are given at different points, as you mention, which weaken the shock value when Elektra hands M the pin. However, these little clues are the source of my hope that Elektra is innocent. Perhaps that was the angle that Apted wanted to go with. It's certainly a testament to Marceau's performance, IMO.

Also, I believe Elektra is the main Bond girl in the film. Christmas assists Bond where she can - the pipeline and bunker scenes are most notable - which make me think she is actually one of the more useful Bond girls. The pipeline scene particularly demonstrates her usefulness as well as Bond's ingenuity: she can prevent it from detonating, but Bond decides to use it to "kill them" which buys him some more time. The conflict of interests in the scene integrates her more in the film without it feeling contrived or baseless. Honey was also relegated to a background figure once they reach Dr No's facility, and yet she is the main Bond girl of the piece. The fact that Christmas is secondary and is still able to assist Bond on the submarine renders her a key player in the film, just not as focal as Elektra and that's totally fine.

I'm also a sucker for the YOLT-TSWLM-MR-AVTAK endings, so if Christmas Jones' inclusion in the film was simply to give us one of those endings, then that's fine by me!

FieldsMan wrote:

Good write up, Grav, but personally I disagree with some of it. I'm a big TWINE fan, so that comes as no surprise.

On your first point, on subsequent viewings of the film, I find myself always hoping that Elektra isn't the villain. Little clues are given at different points, as you mention, which weaken the shock value when Elektra hands M the pin. However, these little clues are the source of my hope that Elektra is innocent. Perhaps that was the angle that Apted wanted to go with. It's certainly a testament to Marceau's performance, IMO.

Also, I believe Elektra is the main Bond girl in the film. Christmas assists Bond where she can - the pipeline and bunker scenes are most notable - which make me think she is actually one of the more useful Bond girls. The pipeline scene particularly demonstrates her usefulness as well as Bond's ingenuity: she can prevent it from detonating, but Bond decides to use it to "kill them" which buys him some more time. The conflict of interests in the scene integrates her more in the film without it feeling contrived or baseless. Honey was also relegated to a background figure once they reach Dr No's facility, and yet she is the main Bond girl of the piece. The fact that Christmas is secondary and is still able to assist Bond on the submarine renders her a key player in the film, just not as focal as Elektra and that's totally fine.

I'm also a sucker for the YOLT-TSWLM-MR-AVTAK endings, so if Christmas Jones' inclusion in the film was simply to give us one of those endings, then that's fine by me!

Problem with Christmas is she never truly feels like a nuclear scientist. Not in the way Kara made you believe she was actually playing the cello, or the way Natalya made you believe she was a computer programmer. Richards only gets, typically, about one or two lines of dialogue per set piece and/or scene. One would think it was Apted trying to limit his exposure to a poor actress, but as we all know, the Christmas character was never truly developed from the first draft onward. So what you have with Christmas is a character that literally feels like a tag-along. A tiny fish following around the big fish, getting whatever crumbs and scraps that it can. Even Stacy Sutton is more integral to the plot than Christmas Jones, for as dire as Ms. Roberts acting was, she somehow felt more connected to the story than Christmas does in her own film.

Marceau blew my mind. Lethal combination of beauty and acting talent; she was everything you could hope for in a Bond Girl. And Apted and Purvis/Wade(?) listed to the complaints about TND and really worked hard to give us a plot worthy of a Bond film.

But there were some criticisms to be had. Ummm...David Arnold's score was overall pretty good, but I felt the ski chase sequence lacking a good score.

The casino scene needed a better musical theme; it didn't feel Bondish, and Baku hardly seems like a place where the world's elite go to gamble.

In the run-up to SPECTRE, I watched one Bond film per actor ... the Brosnan I chose was TWINE, found it a very mixed bag that time round.

It seems to want to be 'grittier' than Brosnan's previous 2 (casting Robert Carlyle as a terrorist and Electra murdering her own father, for example) but also (as is being discussed) expects us to buy Denise Richards as a nuclear scientist. Hmmm.

I will say that Garbage's theme is easily my favourite from Brosnan's era.

Gravity's Silhouette wrote:

FieldsMan wrote:

Good write up, Grav, but personally I disagree with some of it. I'm a big TWINE fan, so that comes as no surprise.

On your first point, on subsequent viewings of the film, I find myself always hoping that Elektra isn't the villain. Little clues are given at different points, as you mention, which weaken the shock value when Elektra hands M the pin. However, these little clues are the source of my hope that Elektra is innocent. Perhaps that was the angle that Apted wanted to go with. It's certainly a testament to Marceau's performance, IMO.

Also, I believe Elektra is the main Bond girl in the film. Christmas assists Bond where she can - the pipeline and bunker scenes are most notable - which make me think she is actually one of the more useful Bond girls. The pipeline scene particularly demonstrates her usefulness as well as Bond's ingenuity: she can prevent it from detonating, but Bond decides to use it to "kill them" which buys him some more time. The conflict of interests in the scene integrates her more in the film without it feeling contrived or baseless. Honey was also relegated to a background figure once they reach Dr No's facility, and yet she is the main Bond girl of the piece. The fact that Christmas is secondary and is still able to assist Bond on the submarine renders her a key player in the film, just not as focal as Elektra and that's totally fine.

I'm also a sucker for the YOLT-TSWLM-MR-AVTAK endings, so if Christmas Jones' inclusion in the film was simply to give us one of those endings, then that's fine by me!

Problem with Christmas is she never truly feels like a nuclear scientist. Not in the way Kara made you believe she was actually playing the cello, or the way Natalya made you believe she was a computer programmer. Richards only gets, typically, about one or two lines of dialogue per set piece and/or scene. One would think it was Apted trying to limit his exposure to a poor actress, but as we all know, the Christmas character was never truly developed from the first draft onward. So what you have with Christmas is a character that literally feels like a tag-along. A tiny fish following around the big fish, getting whatever crumbs and scraps that it can. Even Stacy Sutton is more integral to the plot than Christmas Jones, for as dire as Ms. Roberts acting was, she somehow felt more connected to the story than Christmas does in her own film.

Marceau blew my mind. Lethal combination of beauty and acting talent; she was everything you could hope for in a Bond Girl. And Apted and Purvis/Wade(?) listed to the complaints about TND and really worked hard to give us a plot worthy of a Bond film.

But there were some criticisms to be had. Ummm...David Arnold's score was overall pretty good, but I felt the ski chase sequence lacking a good score.

The casino scene needed a better musical theme; it didn't feel Bondish, and Baku hardly seems like a place where the world's elite go to gamble.

Like I said, I don't mind how they used Christmas in the film. Sure, perhaps there was a way for Christmas to be more integral to the story, or cut her completely. But as it stands - and TWINE being a James Bond film - I like what we have. The few glimpses we get of Christmas trying to deactivate the bomb, open the blast doors in the bunker, etc. and her first scene with Bond at the bunker, I'm satisfied. I believe Richards lends Jones a sassiness we hadn't seen since Tiffany Case, which contrasts Elektra.

There were complaints about TND?

TWINE is possibly my second favourite Arnold score. I agree in that the ski chase could have been a little more melodic, but I love the casino music. Only Myself to Blame is brilliant, and an instrumental version of that is just as good. Baku might be the place where the 'corrupt' elite might gamble.

Blunt Instrument wrote:

It seems to want to be 'grittier' than Brosnan's previous 2 (casting Robert Carlyle as a terrorist and Electra murdering her own father, for example) but also (as is being discussed) expects us to buy Denise Richards as a nuclear scientist. Hmmm.

Isn't this a trope of a Bond film though? Perhaps I benefitted from not knowing who Denise Richards was when I first saw it as an eight year old, but having a nuclear scientist look like Denise Richards is great and fitting for the Bond-o-verse. Just as the only surviving programmer in GE looks as hot as Izabella Scorupco. Or the only shell diver on a dangerous island is a sexy as Ursula Andress. Or the only surviving agent on Leiter's contact list is Pam Bouvier.

I find as TND stock rises in my estimation TWINE heads in the opposite direction. TWINE is a series of highs and lows for me - elements you want to love are often linked to others you'd rather forget or that just don't work as they should. Sophie Marceau and Elektra are highs in my book but I agree the 'shock' of her being the main villain doesn't have the resonance it should. I am a big Robert Carlyle fan but he isn't well used here. The action is rather hit and miss with some of the best stuff marred by overstaying its welcome. I think Brosnan is on fine form however and while Richards is risible as a Newcleah skientist it is never so intense as to destroy my enjoyment of the odd scene she appears in. The score reflects the film perfectly in that tracks I enjoy are often beaten into submission by electrophonicide, some are downright obnoxious (pipeline always comes to mind).

Overall I do enjoy TWINE but it is a turning point for the series in my mind, escalating the personal investment virus that pretty much undermines every film since (even moreso than Craig's redefinition of the main character from Bond to Bland).

Guess the 'personal investment' stuff really started with LTK.

Blunt Instrument wrote:

Guess the 'personal investment' stuff really started with LTK.

Which also coincides with the end of the Cold War. They mustn't have a vision of a type of an impactful threat that is momentous enough that can carry the film without the personal baggage. Which is odd, since Skyfall exploits this issue.

Gravity's Silhouette wrote:

Denise Richards... (her Russian was actually pretty good unless they had someone dubbing for her)

It was alright for a non-Russian American (played by a non-Russian American), but Brosnan the Irishman playing an Englishman disguised as a Russian was about as convincing as his Bondian predecessor was in Red October.

But yes, some solid points. In hindsight, I think Marceau holds up quite nicely as a villain (aside from "eet eez my oil" silliness) and you're right that they should've structured narrative in such a way as to make her villainy more of a surprise. As for Titty Jones, her character was quite superfluous and literally only existed for Bond to make the bad joke and get laid in the final scene. Looking at it from a post-Craig lens, having Bond conclude the film alone is no longer an unthinkable deviation, but given that TWINE aimed to send off the 20th century with a bang (hehe), I can't fault it for electing to have a happy ending (hehe).

FieldsMan wrote:

Blunt Instrument wrote:

Guess the 'personal investment' stuff really started with LTK.

Which also coincides with the end of the Cold War. They mustn't have a vision of a type of an impactful threat that is momentous enough that can carry the film without the personal baggage. Which is odd, since Skyfall exploits this issue.

At the time LTK was an exception rather than the rule and while it is undeniable present in GE and TND neither revolve dogmatically around it. tbh it is a valid theme I welcome revisiting every so often my real objection is the relentless labouring we have been subjected to of late. Ironically while a personal investment is something we all appreciate, it is how you behave when not personally driven that really sets one person apart from another, back any rat into a corner and it will fight back...but fighting on behalf of someone or something not directly connected because its right or your duty that is where I think additional credit is deserved and where the rarest of human qualities are revealed.

Apropos from nothing, On Her Majesty's Secret Service

everything feels on song or as close to it. I hesitate to call it perfect but there has always been since childhood something about OHMSS that is singular in the franchise. Lazenby's sole outing aside -the music has a certain sound compared to other films, Bond's rapport with M and Moneypenny has a certain edge and charm (M alone in this film feels closer to the books than he ever was, Dr No aside perhaps- his dismissal of Bond's concerns over Tracy for example), the Bond ally Draco being up there with Kerim Bey before him and say, Colombo after. The Bond girl is one of the best, the beauty that is Diana Rigg, the locations...the only shame is that it ended.

Favourite scenes remain the escape from Piz Gloria (special mention to when Bond emerges onto the cable from the shed to Barry's epic sounding music) into Samuden, Tracy's appearing on the rink (or even when she shrugs loose her hair in the barn) and the climax amongst many others moments.

From here on in, few films will come close.

THE SPY WHO LOVED ME (1977)

Jaws had too much screentime and Naomi's tits too little.

It's an enjoyable piece overall and you can certainly tell they didn't skimp on the budget. The sets, models, effects et al were sublime.

Speaking of Jaws, just had a thought regarding his happy ending in Moonraker (i.e. being picked up by the U.S. space cavalry along with Pigtails), namely that now he was in custody he would likely have gotten the chair or at least a lifetime in the slammer.

As the film, Hilly, your write up is also on song.

CJB, perhaps he got the chair but survived it, so they put him in the slammer?

I guess they bit off more than they could chew.

I'm surprised no one's ever written up a "Son of Jaws" fanfic featuring the offspring of Jaws and Pigtails exacting revenge upon Bond. Where's CASINOROYALE when you need him?

Will be having my annual 'Bond film set at Christmas' viewing of OHMSS soon myself.

Agreed about Spy's high production values, aside from the unfortunate shot during the train fight in which it can be seen that Kiel is bouncing a dummy off the cabin roof and the one where a boat is 'shot out' of Atlantis onto the ocean ... the shot when it hits the water looks like a kid dropping a toy into the bath, sadly.

CJB wrote:

I guess they bit off more than they could chew.

I'm surprised no one's ever written up a "Son of Jaws" fanfic featuring the offspring of Jaws and Pigtails exacting revenge upon Bond. Where's CASINOROYALE when you need him?

Somehow Raymond Benson springs to mind. Or James Bond Jr

Blunt Instrument wrote:

a boat is 'shot out' of Atlantis onto the ocean ... the shot when it hits the water looks like a kid dropping a toy into the bath, sadly.    

Ah yes, almost forgot about that. Another instance where the dummies are all too visible.

I trust Bach's side-boob action in the shower was genuine though.

Hilly KCMG wrote:

Or James Bond Jr

Workable. Jaws Jr gives James Jr a wedgie, so James Jr gets a blowie from Jaws Jr's missus at the school formal.

CJB wrote:

I guess they bit off more than they could chew.

I'm surprised no one's ever written up a "Son of Jaws" fanfic featuring the offspring of Jaws and Pigtails exacting revenge upon Bond. Where's CASINOROYALE when you need him?

Jaws eventually became a Bond's ally, though, so why would his son want revenge upon Bond? (I know your comment is not to be taken seriously, I just enjoy some Bond talk )

Ah, the Bach side-boob ... amongst the finest of the blink-and-you-missed-it moments of actual toplessness that the series used to occasionally throw in.

See also Ruby's OHMSS nip-slip, the 'getting throttled with her bikini top' chick in the DAF pre-credits sequence and, erm, Mayday changing after her and Zorin's sparring in AVTAK.

And Pushkin's girlfriend in TLD during his interrogation, and during Bond and Elektra's love scene.

Must say that I've tried to sneak a glimpse during the AVTAK one, but to no avail. You must have an even keener eye, BI.

Given how the Craig films played out, the only side-boob they'd have considering displaying would've been Dench's.

Or Craig's. He seemed to have more boob than half of his Bond girls.

Not necessarily because their's were small, but because Bond takes steroids these days.