Boardwalk Empire

Of all the supporting cast, I think Michael Stuhlbarg is my favorite. His Rothstein is subtly brilliant.

In terms of the events of this season, the one thing I thought was a bit unfortunate is that they made it clear that Jimmy and Gillian's twisted mother-and-son bond did indeed include a sexual relationship. They would have been wiser to let the audience guess about just how far Gillian's depravity in regards to her son went. Their relationship didn't need to be sexual for it to be seriously messed up.

We knew there was something seriously off the moment we saw how Gillian greeted him upon his return from the war. I am going to assume I wasn't the only one who thought Gillian was his lover rather than his mother until he dropped the "mom" bomb on us.

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Of all the supporting cast, I think Michael Stuhlbarg is my favorite. His Rothstein is subtly brilliant.

Rothstein and Doyle are probably tied in my book. Both actors manage to inhabit a fully formed character even if they only have one line.

I agree that there was more than enough subtext to infer something messed up went on with Gillian and Jimmy (I agree, the very point of her first episode was to make you think she was his mistress) but I think providing the context (or at least some of it) to what happened when is worthwhile, perhaps more for exploring Gillian's character than Jimmy's (because the episode played far more into her motivations in the entire deed) though in a jam-packed season it perhaps could've waited.

Spoiler:

I've read some criticism of Margaret's unravelling but I think it's perfectly reasonable and well handled. The dynamic between her, Owen and Nucky is something that I'm guessing will be developed and mined for episodes into the future seasons, givien in spite of her newfound fear of God's wrath she still kept one thing a secret. Kelly McDonald has done some excellent work this season.

And I noted earlier I voiced some criticism about the casting of Buscemi as the lead but I need to take it back. I don't think anyone could play Nucky Thompson better.

And I like the polio storyline because it's something (at my age) that I never would've grasped the impact of otherwise. Supposedly it was the AIDS of the '20s.

I thought it was a good finale and I think there's enough there to hint at what might keep going in the next year - Gillian and Richard, Van Alden on the run, Nucky and Margaret's power sturggles, Owen and Margaret, Horvitz and so forth. The sequence intercutting the Neery escapade, Esther practicing her closing and Nucky's marriage was another fine sequence, in my view.

My understanding is that Pitt had become such a dead mind on set and such a diva on top of it that they basically were forced to write him out. I think that's probably what forced the storyline in the way it did, with him getting Nucky out of the picture so quickly, having power go straight to his head, killing the Commodore, Angela dying and revealing their background as a couple along with confirming the incident with Gillian. My guess a lot of thing (bar Angela dying, which was clearly to set up the basis to kill him off) were things they had planned to reveal and have play out over a few more years but they felt it better to force it in than leave so much of it untouched and forgotten.

Aleksa Palladino (Angela) essentially admitted in a recent interview that Angela wasn't originally planned to die, and at one point was going to wind up in SoHo and as a vehicle into a lot of other storylines about the 20s not related to crime or prohibition. I suspect that van Alden and the au pair will play that role now that he's on the lamb.

With that in mind and the fact that besides those rushed elements I thought it was a pretty exceptional season, I'm optimistic for the next season.

Van Alden went from being one of the least interesting characters to the one with the most promising story line for the next season.

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Van Alden went from being one of the least interesting characters to the one with the most promising story line for the next season.

I agree. I wasn't a fan last season but watching his gradual ethical decay this year, coupled with insight into why he is the way he is made me like him a lot more than I did. Which is good, because Michael Shannon is too good to play a cardboard cutout.

Is that the extent of your thoughts on this episode?

I was expecting Margaret to keep the land and money for herself as an insurance policy against Nucky but giving it to the church was amusing. I kind of want to see Nucky's reaction to that and am bummed that we won't (I'm guessing next season will pick up after Eli's stint in prison)

Vesper wrote:

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Van Alden went from being one of the least interesting characters to the one with the most promising story line for the next season.

Is that the extent of your thoughts on this episode?

Not at all.

Do you believe Jimmy knew his fate before he went over to that meeting? There were subtle hints to suggest as much throughout the episode.

As for how the events of the season finale leave us for season three, I imagine it'll mean the action will at least partially move to Chicago? Both Capone and Van Alden are out there now. I also assume there will be another time-jump, likely to the end of Eli's jail sentence.

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Do you believe Jimmy knew his fate before he went over to that meeting? There were subtle hints to suggest as much throughout the episode.

Yeah I'm very much of that view. It was like he was preparing to kill himself, he settled all the affairs he could, gave away possessions etc. He knew it was coming, he just didn't know when. I'll be interested to see how Richard develops next season, as I suspect his story will be his conflict between 'coming home' as Jimmy put it and his psychopathy and desire for revenge. I also wonder where he'll wind up, because I can't see him being brought into Nucky's camp, so I suspect he'll be either a lone wolf or he, Gillian and Leander will form a new sort of faction. Though I could see him winding up in the fold with Rothstein, Luciano and Lansky.

As much as some people are crying foul over it, I do think it was some honest storytelling. Nucky can control Eli, he can't control Jimmy. And as Winter said, for every Lansky, Seigel, Luciano and Al Capone there were a thousand Jimmy Darmody's. Not everyone can be Al Capone.

I think the (not surprising to me but somehow surprising to others) revelation that Nucky is most definitely a sociopath does cast a new light on the character. Especially since he's lying to Margaret about things and she knows he's lying. I still don't get why some people are surprised by it, though. He's affable, sure, but a lot of sociopaths are and he's been demonstrated to be an absolute user of people throughout the show.

Winter said Margaret signing the land over to the church was her washing her hands of her Catholic guilt - reconciling in advance I guess .

I think I saw that Capone started terrorizing Cicero around '23/24. I forgot what year we're in (21?) but van Alden's move has to be a way to bring more focus to Chicago and Capone now that Jimmy's gone. I saw a mention that around that time the stockpiled booze started to run out and competition stepped up, 16 months would probably put us in that timeframe so I definitely think that'll be part of next season.

Outside of Palladino, Dabney Coleman and Pitt supposedly Paz de la Huerta is the only actor leaving the cast. And Winter said she may come back at some point (makes sense). Lucy's probably in Los Angeles.

I'm curious if Esther Randolph will be around next season or if she'll have moved off and let the Nucky business lie where it is. I'm sure she'll be back at some point because the woman she's based off wound up defending the likes of George Remus et al once she was passed over by Roosevelt for Attorney General.

I really really loved The Godfather allusion in this one - more so than last years - some of the camera angles for Randolph's scenes in it were fantastic.

From tonight every Sunday Dutch and Belgium people with Public Channel Nederland 3 on tv can watch the 2th season on Dutch tv at 23.00 (11.00 PM).

Dutch: Vanaf vanavond, Board Walk Empire seizoen 2 elke Zondag om 23.00 op Nederland 3.

After almoost 2 years finaly back on open Dutch tv.

Been meaning to check this out for a while. From reading this topic, I'm definitely gonna be making it a priority.

I'll probably wait until S3 is on Blu and chainwatch them all. I've not seen the show yet.

You could probably get away with watching s1-2 and waiting for 3. My impression of the 3rd season thus far is that in many ways it's a bit of a reboot or reset, if you will. The first two seasons combined tell a relatively self-contained story. Season three seems to be setting up something else.

Salome, since you're around, have you been keeping up with season 3? What are your thoughts.

It's a bit of a slow burn in my book, but that I'm wary it probably will pay off. I thought the stuff with Capone in the latest episode, and the final montage was pretty excellent.

Though you know your show is fucked up when Al Capone is the closest thing to a moral centre

I find it a bit disappointing so far to be fair.
I found Nucky more interesting when he was "half a gangster".
He's now morphed into something more of a conventional mobster, which means he's one of the many men like him in that show. His behavior so far has also been a bit baffling and not really consistent with how he was portrayed in the first two seasons.
Rothstein and (strangely enough) Van Alden are the two remaining intriguing characters. I say strangely enough in Van Alden's case because I cared little about him in the first seasons. He's much more interesting as a failed door-to-door salesmen with a fake identity than he ever was as a prohi.

The Van Alden's might be my favorite crazy married couple after this last episode.

The last two episodes have really picked up, in my view. Far more interesting than the gang war storyline. Nucky playing Randolph to bring down Daugherty is a neat idea.

As to the Van Alden's I'd agree depending on how long "James" and Gillian stick around. So messed up.

They've now taken the Gillian character into the realm of self-parody. Though you could argue they already took her to that point last season.

I liked the re-introduction of the Randolph character. I felt she was built up quite nicely in season two, but then there was no pay-off with her being humiliated and destroyed when Nucky's case was thrown out.

On the other hand, I'm totally not interested in their return to the Margaret and Owen affair. I found that a rather stupid plot development the first time around, but now it makes even less sense.

It looks increasingly likely we will get to meet Richard's sister this season, which could be one of the highs of the season, provided the writers approach it appropriately.

On the one hand I agree about Gillian, on the other, you read about that period and there were some truly fucked up people about. Especially in the criminal and vice world these characters inhabit. The world really was a different place before WWII. People who would've been committed to asylums in any other modern era were just running about the place.

I'm in the same boat and can definitely take or leave the Owen/Margaret romance. Though I think it makes more sense now, at least for Margaret, insofar that her relationship with Nucky is pretty much dead. It's stupid on so many levels for Owen, but this is a show where people do stupid things, so... eh.

Nucky the politician/puppet master is a lot more interesting than Nucky the out-of-his-depth gangster, in my view. I think the decision to kill Jimmy made total sense for the character but having thought on it I think it may have been more compelling for Nucky to order it as a hit, than do it himself. They've hinted at the ramifications of it on his psyche so I guess it will be interesting to see if they play with it further over the season.

The new development I found least consistent with the previous seasons is the Billy Kent relationship. She's more Lucy Danzinger than Margaret Schroder, and Nucky never fell for Lucy to the extent he did for Margaret. Randolph is right, he does see himself as the pater familias, which is why a woman in need like poor widowed Margaret would attract him more than the more empowered version she morphed into once she was afforded his money and power.

Billy Kent is too independent for him to feel the kind of attraction he seeks.

The amateur psychology the writers are going for here is that Nucky is looking for women to "save" because he failed to save his own first wife.

I'm on the same page. Storyline, character and actress do nothing for me. The actress seems to 'modern' to me.

The scene where Chalky and Purnsley intimidate Eddie Cantor though almost made it worth it.

Not a huge fan of the character, but I liked how this episode put some of the decisions and actions made by Gillian in the previous episode into a completely new perspective. She wasn't just creating herself a surrogate son for some carnal pleasures and to fill an emotional void, she needed a body to claim her inheritance.

Gyp Rosetti's family couldn't have been more of a cliche. The overweight wife, pair of sisters and the overbearing loud mother. They checked off every Italian-American stereotype, right down to the smacking of the hands because he attempted to start his meal before saying grace...

It figures that just when I start to enjoy the Kent character they go and do that to her.

Vesper wrote:

It figures that just when I start to enjoy the Kent character they go and do that to her.

Do you reckon the scene right before the explosion was a reference to "Wages of Fear"? Tim Van Patten is a bit known for his cinematic references.

Van Alden and his mrs. stole the show again.“I'm open to any state, except New Jersey and New York…and Illinois, obviously."

Interesting episode.

I'm curious to find out how they will manage to get Nucky out of this mess.
In a manner that isn't entirely unrealistic or far-fetched. Logic would suggest he is a dead man walking after his failed meeting with the other bosses.

Such a claustrophobic episode (though that was obviously the point). The Richard storyline is brilliantly acted as always. The kids who play Tommy are also way better actors than the kids playing Margaret's children.

It was nice to see him not manage to bring it all together, though, which is always a nice change.

My guess is Rosetti will bite it in some unexpected way (Gillian?) which will conveniently leave Nucky free to have axes to grind against Rothstein et al into future series.

That or Torrio will come into it somehow. He wasn't at the meeting.

I can't figure out whether Margaret and Owen are not long for the world, or are going to go off to broaden the scope of the show like Van Alden did. Or whether the status quo will just wound up being restored somehow.

I'm not sure they can afford to get rid of Margaret or Gillian, not unless they consciously want to write the two remaining female characters out of the series. The rest of them (Richard's love interest, Van Alden's wife, the maid that Owen has been shagging) are too much on the periphery of the story to really matter much. Of course they could change that by expanding those roles.

I believe that the distillery that Nucky promised to run for Mellon might have a part to play in the resolution of his problems. The quickly arranged meeting had Nucky offer little more than his future loyalties. If he can provide Rothstein and co with an easy and large source of liquor, that's a pretty large carrot do dangle in front of them. It would certainly offer a lot more incentive to put their necks out. And all of them would rather do business with Nucky than a madman like Rosetti.