Doctor Who (1963 - present)

Tis odd that the show has become so heavily reliant on some pivotal shock/surprise or trick reveal, to the extent that the actual story or lead up is all but insignificant. I frequently watch the classic episodes and enjoy them even knowing full well what's coming next, yet I rarely if ever feel the need to return to any Nu-Who because once you know what's coming there's not actually much left to enjoy.

Well, huge spoiler below....


I haven't actually seen the episode or read anything, but I saw a picture and other people have noticed this in the NEXT TIME trailer.

Spoiler:

Well, you got your wish Moore ... and the theory was right :) . And OOOOO at the cliffhanger ... roll on November 23rd! :geek:

Loved seeing the old Doctor's in the episode. So glad they did that! The ending was pretty exciting, too. Will be quite interested in seeing what Hurt's character is truly about.

The fan sites are going crazy already: Valeyard, an aged Eighth Doctor, a rogue regeneration between 8 and 9, an unknown incarnation of 9, a pre-Hartnell Doctor, a future Doctor, etc., etc.

Will be excited to see how Moffat finishes it up. Glad to hear Smith is coming back from one more series, too.

One theory going around is that he's either that 'rogue regeneration' or is actually 9, and 'official' 9, 10 and 11 have all been lying about which number Doctor they are ... the reason being that he's the incarnation who actually fought in the Time War and, disgusted by what he had to do, the Doctor has chosen to 'lock him away' and never admit he existed.

Blunt Instrument wrote:

One theory going around is that he's either that 'rogue regeneration' or is actually 9, and 'official' 9, 10 and 11 have all been lying about which number Doctor they are ... the reason being that he's the incarnation who actually fought in the Time War and, disgusted by what he had to do, the Doctor has chosen to 'lock him away' and never admit he existed.

It would certainly tally with the idea that there was a regeneration that the Doctor refuses to acknowledged....however I would suggest that the Doctors involvement in the Time war is already about as significant as it could be - anything added is somehow less of a big deal after he wiped the Timelords from history (even though the show actually fails to deliver on that as so many people seem to remember them). Hide had the empathic warning Clara of a sliver of ice in the Doctors heart, which could be Hurt's Doctor and hopefully something that the anniversary story might purge.

If Hurt was the 9th Doctor it would explain why Clara didn't see the next regeneration when visiting the Doctors complete timeline (she should have been able to see past and future Doctors) as there isn't one according to normal Timelord rules, the anniversary then has the option to break the 12 regeneration limit and potentially see the Doctor reborn etc.

Didn't River 'gift' the Doctor the rest of her regenerations in Let's Kill Hitler?

She did indeed.

Most husbands just get a ring.

I just want a follow up on the Valeyard. We're getting.mighty close to when he's supposed to show up.

Blunt Instrument wrote:

Didn't River 'gift' the Doctor the rest of her regenerations in Let's Kill Hitler?

Was it established how many she gave....there isn't really a precedent for not seeing several strangers as the Doctor in that case mind...that tear was his entire life not just the period to regen 11/12?

Don't think there was a figure mentioned, no.

Am currently watching Colin Baker's first story, 'The Twin Dillemma' ... the decision to have his regeneration make the Sixth Doctor an unstable, arrogant tool at first was an interesting (if maybe not entirely successful one); he's hard to like at times.

Blunt Instrument wrote:

Don't think there was a figure mentioned, no.

Am currently watching Colin Baker's first story, 'The Twin Dillemma' ... the decision to have his regeneration make the Sixth Doctor an unstable, arrogant tool at first was an interesting (if maybe not entirely successful one); he's hard to like at times.

Initially I recall him being a welcome contrast to the relatively indistinct character he replaced (though I think Davidson exits when he has only just found his place sadly). Unfortunately the costume he is given and the quality of the stories he plays in don't really allow him to realise his potential (Twin Dilemma and Timelash are particularly dreadful I seem to recall)....though today I'd rather watch him in preference to McCoy and Tennant tbh.

I think they didn't want the actor following Tom Baker to give another 'big', expansive performance as the Fifth Doctor, hence Davison's relatively low-key approach. Then they went back to 'big' with the next Baker, I guess ... actually, there's a line where the Sixth dismisses his previous incarnation as 'effete' .

Twin Dillemma has its compensations ... Peri's not so hard on the eye, and Baker is clearly having fun grandly quoting classic literature and with lines like 'The purpose of reconnaisance is rarely to end up in a pool of one's own blood, Peri ... particularly blood as noble as mine'.

Hehehe!

GERONIMO to the 11th Doctor ... after the 50th anniversary special and the Christmas episode, Matt Smith's hanging up the sonic screwdriver.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/doctorwho/articles/Matt-Smith-to-leave-Doctor-Who

Hope he gets a worthy send-off, and that we get an equally brilliant 12th Doctor :geek: .

There's a rumor going around Doctor Who forums that the BBC has discovered a large chunk of the missing episodes of the 1960s. Of course, this seems rather unlikely considering that as the years pass it seems the odds of them being rediscovered seems to be decreasing (although they did find an episode of The Moonbase and Galaxy 4 back around 2011).

Apparently they are going to announce it around the 50th anniversary. If true it will mean that over half of the missing episodes have been restored (around 106 currently missing). One source says that Troughton's Evil Of The Daleks has been discovered in full.


The problem with this rumor is the sheer number. Even if it was 20 episodes it would be suspicious. It means either:

1) The BBC has been discovering these the past few years and keeping it secret for the 50th. This seems most likely considering the sheer number, however, if true, then why did they announce and eventually release to DVD the discovery of a missing episode from The Moonbase and Galaxy 4?

It's possible that these two episodes were discovered separately from the big haul and maybe they realized that if the rest of those storylines weren't among the other 60 they discovered, then it probably wouldn't be found, leading them to okay Galaxy 4's release on the Aztec's DVD and to do a release of The Moonbase with its missing episodes animated.

or

2) perhaps a private collector who had them possibly was hanging on to them finally decide to share or died and the family returned them to the BBC.

I truly do hope this is true but that seems to be a huge amount of episodes. Even if it was 20 I'd be skeptical considering how the search for them has gone in the past, but I'm really keeping my fingers crossed because it would be fantastic. I wouldn't count on it though.

Moore wrote:

There's a rumor going around Doctor Who forums that the BBC has discovered a large chunk of the missing episodes of the 1960s. Of course, this seems rather unlikely considering that as the years pass it seems the odds of them being rediscovered seems to be decreasing (although they did find an episode of The Moonbase and Galaxy 4 back around 2011).

Apparently they are going to announce it around the 50th anniversary. If true it will mean that over half of the missing episodes have been restored (around 106 currently missing). One source says that Troughton's Evil Of The Daleks has been discovered in full.


The problem with this rumor is the sheer number. Even if it was 20 episodes it would be suspicious. It means either:

1) The BBC has been discovering these the past few years and keeping it secret for the 50th. This seems most likely considering the sheer number, however, if true, then why did they announce and eventually release to DVD the discovery of a missing episode from The Moonbase and Galaxy 4?

It's possible that these two episodes were discovered separately from the big haul and maybe they realized that if the rest of those storylines weren't among the other 60 they discovered, then it probably wouldn't be found, leading them to okay Galaxy 4's release on the Aztec's DVD and to do a release of The Moonbase with its missing episodes animated.

or

2) perhaps a private collector who had them possibly was hanging on to them finally decide to share or died and the family returned them to the BBC.

I truly do hope this is true but that seems to be a huge amount of episodes. Even if it was 20 I'd be skeptical considering how the search for them has gone in the past, but I'm really keeping my fingers crossed because it would be fantastic. I wouldn't count on it though.

That would be unbelievebly good news...though sadly the emphasis has to be unbelievebly.... any recoveries would be more than welcome mind.

Yeah unfortunately I think it is nonsense. If anything, maybe they found a complete story or a few episodes and the rumor got blown out of proportion.

One can dream though...

Painted for me by a friend whom I love very, very much. Bless her :D .

Wow.  That is awesome.  I love it.

Okay, here are some more rumors on those missing episodes.

Quote :

Now, Johnston claims, the BBC has turned up a ton of Doctor Who stories that were presumed lost forever. Apparently there was an "eccentric engineer" who worked for some broadcasters in Africa, and he had a love for science fiction and a habit of putting things away for safe keeping. Among the finds, Johnston says, is the complete "Evil of the Daleks," Troughton's second Dalek story from 1967. Along with tons of other stories.

However....

Quote :

Hartnell's Mission to the Unknown, Dalek's Masterplan, and Tenth Planet were never sold/broadcasted in Africa. Feast of Steven was never offered for sale to ANY foreign nation. The recovery of a "complete Hartnell library" is difficult to conceive.
2) Evil of the Daleks, along with Power of the Daleks, Fury From the Deep, and The Invasion were also never sold/broadcasted in any African nation. BBC records about the Sales of episodes are complete.
3) The original rumor states that the films may be damaged. It is also rumored that other BBC shows may be included in the collection, which would include other forgotten sci-fis.

So it seems someone is Africa was storing these tapes, even though tapes were never sent there and never aired on television during that time period. Furthermore, the rumor goes:

Quote :

The original rumor states that the films are not in BBC hands yet and negotiations could be tender. So any publicity about this could put them in jeopardy. Regardless, it's hard to stop a moving train.

So it seems someone in Africa, a private collector, held on to the tapes of these episodes. Tapes which, according to BBC records, were never sold/shipped to Africa. Also the BBC don't have these tapes yet but are in negotiations with this private collector.

The story seemed unlikely to begin with, but this seems a very odd story. A person having tapes never sold to that region. Unless said person acquired them from elsewhere as a collector back in the day.

With each passing day I'm thinking what I did from the start: it might just be too good to be true.

The late Iain Banks in his last interview, May 2013:

"I've fallen out of love with Doctor Who, at least in its present incarnation. I just can't get along with it. People have suggested I should write for the programme, but, ach, I just couldn't. I might have been hopelessly naive but I hadn't realised there are just so many rules when you write a Doctor Who story, like the monster has to go back in the box at the end.

"If you are going to write what a friend of a friend once called 'Made up space shit', then if it's going to have any ring of truth that means sometimes some of the horrible characters get to live, and for there to be any sense of jeopardy, especially in future novels, the good people have to die. Sometimes."

He went on to add:

"Unless you're writing purely for five-year-olds, about bunnies, you're going to have to think about death. Your characters will die and people will live on afterwards who cared about them. You need to be able to empathise with them. Of course, we all go through it; we all have people close to us die. But as a writer you really have to think it through properly, or it'll all ring false. "

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2013/jun/15/iain-banks-the-final-interview

My problem with Moffat. Tons of characters die... but then... Oh wait, we can travel back/use a special space button and bring them back to life.  I hate that.

(series 7 finale spoiler ahead)

In the finale of last series, Jenny dies. I think it was a wonderfully filmed scene. It was a perfect exit for the character. It really added to the story the gravity of the situation. 5 minutes later.... oh, let's have Strax use this future space device on her, she's been rescued and is alive again! 

I think that's one of the worst aspect of the shows. I think once they are dead they are dead, no going back and fixing it.

Yeah, most of the time there should be no coming back from death though there aren't many writers that can resist a biblical allegory.

- nu BSG spoiler follows... -

Moore's comments reminds me of when nu BSG killed Kara Thrace then brought her back. Killing a popular character is an easy way to achieve dramatic impact, but that's cheapened if they're then resurrected. Thrace's reappearance at the end of S3, together with the revelation of the final five, may have been when nu BSG finally jumped the shark.

Damn. This is the wrong thread and Trevanian's gone anyway...

Moore wrote:

My problem with Moffat. Tons of characters die... but then... Oh wait, we can travel back/use a special space button and bring them back to life.  I hate that.

(series 7 finale spoiler ahead)

In the finale of last series, Jenny dies. I think it was a wonderfully filmed scene. It was a perfect exit for the character. It really added to the story the gravity of the situation. 5 minutes later.... oh, let's have Strax use this future space device on her, she's been rescued and is alive again! 

I think that's one of the worst aspect of the shows. I think once they are dead they are dead, no going back and fixing it.

My problem with the new series pre-dates Moffat...and to a degree even RTD, it is the point where the show became self obsessed and self important, contrast with early 'Who' and indeed anything up-to Doctor number 5 and it is pretty much the antithesis of the character...even Doctor number 6's swagger and ego was presented more as an aberration. I do still enjoy it and consider Matt Smith among the best (Very reminiscent of Troughton in his ability to convey energy and emotion) and some of the writing/production is tremendous but the perspective and focus is all back to front I fear.

As to the next Doctor I definitely hope for an older person being cast, ditch the emo romaticism and bring back some of the grumpier but well meaning aspects of Hartnell, the sarcasm of Baker no. 2, a tendency to inspire others to help themselves rather than he or his immediate companion be the great I am in every episode.